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British monarchy question
Gottagetthrough posted 4/14/2021 13:39 PM
I heard that Zara, the Queen’s granddaughter say that even she curtsies to the Queen. I got the impression it was a quick respectful gesture then she was like a normal grandmother.
If the grandkids curtsy to the Queen, does that mean Prince Philip also curtsied to his wife?
Just curious.
sewardak posted 4/14/2021 13:49 PM
I think he bows at formal events but not around the castle.
ZenMumWalking posted 4/14/2021 14:00 PM
A bow is for men, a curtsy is for women. As for the recently deceased Prince Philip, I have seen it in public, but who knows what goes on behind closed doors......
Gottagetthrough posted 4/14/2021 15:14 PM
I’d love to know if he bowed in private, you know, just when he entered the room. And what about the Queen Mother, I wonder if she curtsied to the Queen?
Marie2792 posted 4/14/2021 15:54 PM
Yes he bows to her at least in public. William and Harry also bow to Her Majesty as well.
[This message edited by Marie2792 at 3:54 PM, April 14th (Wednesday)]
BraveSirRobin posted 4/14/2021 18:37 PM
I've read that there's an extremely complex protocol for bowing/curtseying, not only to the Queen, but to all senior members of the royal family. Zara curtseys not only to her grandmother, but to her mother, uncles, and certain of her cousins, and even those individuals' wives if their husbands are present. (I'm not sure how husbands of ranking royals fit in this scenario.) For instance, Kate Middleton is ranked third lady in the land, behind only the Queen and Camilla Parker-Bowles, if William is present. Otherwise, she gets kicked down the queue behind natural born royals and curtseys to them. Harry bows to her if William is there; she curtseys to him if William isn't.
I have to assume that they bend these rules for private family gatherings, but I believe one always bows to the sovereign. Prince Philip would likely have been the only exception.
Gottagetthrough posted 4/15/2021 07:04 AM
Absolutely fascinating. I don’t know how they remember all the rules.
tushnurse posted 4/15/2021 19:31 PM
They bow/curtsey the crown and title not the person.
BraveSirRobin posted 4/15/2021 22:18 PM
Absolutely fascinating. I don’t know how they remember all the rules.
It used to be simpler, I think, but they had to figure out how to incorporate Camilla Parker-Bowles into the rank system. They couldn't give her the title of Princess of Wales because that was Diana's title; the public would be furious if they granted it to Charles's AP. Their marriage is sketchy under Church of England doctrine anyway because her ex-husband is still alive. They married in a civil ceremony, and the Queen wasn't present. It's unclear whether Camilla will be granted the title of Queen Consort when Charles ascends. After all, he's going to become the Supreme Head of a state church whose rules his marriage is openly flouting. Last I knew, the word was no because Queen Elizabeth opposes it, but once Charles is King, he may tell people to shove it and deal.
In any case, Camilla is currently the formal consort of the Prince of Wales, so her rank was a thorny problem. As I understand it, they compromised that she would assume her husband's rank if he is present. To avoid awkwardness, they made that the general rule for all consorts. Previously, their rank was durable regardless of the presence of their spouse. I believe people bowed and curtseyed to Diana as HRH Princess of Wales whether Charles was there or not.
sewardak posted 4/16/2021 11:07 AM
the tradition is so odd to me and the system so archaic.
Cooley2here posted 4/16/2021 13:40 PM
As an American I find that somewhere archaic and yet at the same time I understand it. Rituals are comfortable. You know what to do, when. My husband grew up Southern Baptist and I grew up Episcopalian which is basically the church of England. We had rituals and our service very is similar to the Catholic Church. My husband could never get comfortable enough to go to church with me every Sunday because his church, although a protestant church as is mine, is was still so different that he never quite settled in. It is what you grow up with. I would imagine they bow and curtsy without even thinking about it. To us on foreign soil it looks odd but to them it’s just the way things are.
The Japanese bow and we shake hands. Just different cultures. We speak English and the English think we destroy it but we continue on.
[This message edited by Cooley2here at 1:44 PM, April 16th (Friday)]
Catwoman posted 4/16/2021 13:55 PM
Yes, Zara would greet her grandmother the Queen with a cheek kiss followed by a curtsey.
For everyone else (not sure about the late Duke of Edinburgh), Her Majesty the Queen is greeted with a bow or curtsey, often (for close family) proceeded by a cheek kiss. This holds for the first time that day an individual sees the Queen. If, for example, you were staying with the Queen and had greeted her properly before lunch, you would not need to bow or curtsey when you saw her later that day for tea. It is also protocol to bow/curtsey when you take your leave of the monarch or the monarch leaves.
Wives take the style and title of their husbands; however, if they are not accompanied by their husband, they would have to curtsey to the higher ranked individuals (this would mean the blood princesses Beatrice and Eugenie and Harry and William). It is all based on precedence, so it does get rather complicated.
It is complicated, but if anyone saw the video from Christmas 2019 when the Queen left church and little Princess Charlotte curtsied, it was so sweet!
Cat
BraveSirRobin posted 4/16/2021 15:00 PM
This is why I was shocked when Meghan said in her recent interview that Harry didn't tell her about curtsying until they were in the car on the way over to Windsor Castle. He ought to have prepared her better than that.
DragnHeart posted 4/16/2021 16:27 PM
Local corner store is owned by an amazing Korean couple.
One day some other people entered, friends, maybe family. It was automatic for both sides to bow.
It shows respect. Something lost in western culture IMO.
I dont think such gestures are archaic at all. Being of mixed decent i have no "culture". I have a bit of this and a bit of that.