SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Everything that RocketRaccoon has mentioned in his last post^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Skyla, you are in a form of denial that you need to change. I know that you do not want to hear this, but you are lying to yourself. You already know what you are getting is nowhere near enough to be acceptable, yet you are not taking any actions to remove yourself from this cycle. You need to get very honest with yourself, and ask why you are accepting(and yes, you are accepting this) this type of REPEATED behavior.....and staying in the relationship.

In my situation, it was simply fear. It took me a while to finally stare myself down in the mirror, and acknowledge that my fears of the unknown were allowing me to accept so much less than I was worth. And the most painful part about that today, is that I can never have that time back. Time that I should have spent working on ending the relationship(we were together 20+ years by that time), instead of convincing myself that it will all work out. And the truth about my situation? It probably would have worked out MUCH SOONER if I simply stopped accepting less-than from my wife. There was no real motivation for her to change, at least from me, when she knew that at least at a subconscious level I was not going anywhere. It is still my biggest regret to this day, even though we did reconcile. Literally years were wasted by my inactions. That could easily be your story, as (1) this is not the first time, and (2) she has almost all of the WRONG behaviors at this point.

She won't like that 1 bit as she barely works as it is and hates it.

This really sticks out to me. Her child raising days are past(although it didn't stop her from straying then), so what are her daily motivations? Doesn't she WANT to contribute to herself, her family, and at some level to society? There is a HUGE difference between not being able to work versus not wanting to work....knowing that you'll simply take care of that aspect. What are her reasons for not wanting to work at this point?

You are in for a world of hurt if you stay with her. This has happened time and again. IF you really plan to marry her, please have a pre-nup written up to protect your assets. And have a really good insurance that covers IC because you're gonna need it.

Just a brief update since we just started really talking about her affair again since my father passed and it's not going well. Yesterday was mostly through text while I was at work so I'm just gonna post what she was texting cause I'm not sure if i can get through to her. She had come down to my job to bring me food and I was just depressed and she was upset about that.

She texted me I'm sorry, what can I do. I'm trying and I hope someday you can forgive me and you can move on. She went on to say she thinks I'm depressed because I chose her and I could have had a better life with someone else and she hopes i get what I want someday and be happy cause I would never want to marry a whore. She said she doesn't think I'll ever be happy with her again. Then she send me this long text which made me mad.

"I didn't sleep with him, we only talked and I was not ready to leave you yet does that mean anything? It was wrong of me and I wish I didn't do it, I'm sorry I never wanted to hurt you again. Nothing I say about my reasons for doing it matter cause of what I did so we will never talk about that."

I told her whatever issues we had were normal for people in a 20 year relationship and you can't make excuses for cheating. She said she's not trying to make excuses but had reasons for doing it even though she knows it was wrong. And then she said "You already know everything that happened and when you're ready to move on then we can until then we will stay here miserable" She then said "I'm not just saying move on but we never will if we don't try and even when we're not talking about it it's all you're thinking about." Then she asked if we could make plans to do something together so we have something to look forward to. That started her saying the last year or so I never took her out to eat or a movie or anything with just us. I reminded her we were in a Covid lockdown the last year and all that stuff was shut down. She said other people found ways to do stuff. I reminded her i took her to the beach but she said it wasn't the same cause our daughter was with us. I reminded her we stayed home cause of covid and watch a lot of netflix series together, just the 2 of us and she said that's not like a date.

What I should also say is I was off work for 8 months due to covid so we spent everyday together. Then her nephew came in from out of state the weekend before I had to go back to work after 8 months off and she wanted to have a dinner and party at our house the night before I went back. I told her no way, have the party at your sisters house, it's gonna be hard for me to sleep as it is going back for the first time. She said when I refused to have her family for that dinner she knew she was done and that was one of the reasons she cheated. I reminded her the last time she cheated she said it was because her father died and we weren't married yet so he couldn't walk her down the aisle. That was her excuse to sleep with another guy. Well my father just died, so I get to use that to sleep with somebody else.

She really wants to tell me all her reasons why she cheated this time so I can fix them but I'm not trying to hear her excuses. Sorry if it sounds like I'm ranting but I'm going in circles and she keeps getting upset when I remind her the poly is scheduled in a few weeks and I told her I don't think she will pass. She insisted again they just talked. I'm gonna try the VAR to catch her confessing something on the phone to her friend who knew about it the whole time but it's possible nothing physcial did actually happen

Sounds like she is blameshifting and rugsweeping.

You can heal, accept, forgive, or any other number of things to go forward with R. However, at no point will the A be forgotten, and there is permanent damage that no amount of healing will fix. The A will be a scar on the relationship. Eventually you can touch it and it won't hurt. But you will never be able to just ignore the existence of the scar.

A serial cheater is one thing - routinely referred to here as all but impossible to reconcile with.

A gaslighting, blameshifting serial cheater is a narcissist dangerous to your mental and physical health.

Next level toxicity.

Think about it.

[This message edited by Thumos at 7:39 PM, June 9th (Wednesday)]

"I didn't sleep with him, we only talked and I was not ready to leave you yet does that mean anything? It was wrong of me and I wish I didn't do it, I'm sorry I never wanted to hurt you again. Nothing I say about my reasons for doing it matter cause of what I did so we will never talk about that."

Tell her to stop worrying about this because the truth will come out in the polygraph.

"I'm not just saying move on but we never will if we don't try and even when we're not talking about it it's all you're thinking about."

Tell her you feel unsafe with her and for good reason. If her 'why' is that she was done with the relationship, it will take a long time with persistent action from her before you will be convinced this won't happen in the future. Until that time, this will likely continue to be at the front of your mind.

She went on to say she thinks I'm depressed because I chose her and I could have had a better life with someone else and she hopes i get what I want someday and be happy cause I would never want to marry a whore.

This is an attempt at victim reversal. Simply say that in a vacuum, her actions should indeed result in you walking away instantly; leave it at that.

Then she asked if we could make plans to do something together so we have something to look forward to.

Here is the classic "I need to feel comfortable that you're definitely going to stay with me before I even put in any effort because I am my number one priority".

You do realize that what she has said about your behavior is just ridiculous. You’re a good person and you’ve done your best. You have a cheater in your house. That’s the reality of your life. There’s a cheater living with you. I hope you can get your ducks in a row and move on. I think you will find a lot of happiness once you do that.

My god that was hard to read. I know why you feel like you are going around in circles...cus that's what she's doing. She pushes one ways saying shes a whore and no good for you...when you don't bite and tell her she's wonderful she switches to blaming you. When use use logic to point out that you did nothing wrong she throws what a horrible person she is...when you don't bite she blames you for not getting over it... and so on and so on and so on. This is what she did to get out of the last few affairs. She makes it so you can't focus on the obvious (she had another affair) but throwing making you focus on other details... we didn't have sex. Sure I spent the night, sexted, lie to you... but we didn't have sex...

This is the way the poly is going to work as well. She will fail it and claim to have been too nervous. Then it will go back to her talking in circles again. You will be in this same position. Don't bother having the poly done if you're aren't going to take the results seriously.

I think bringing you lunch was her way of getting you to drop the text.

So this is actually the 4th time in 20 years I've found her going behind my back in the 20 years but this is the 2nd time with this guy,

OP, the above should be enough for you to make a decision. Whatever reasons she has, no one should accept a spouse who cheated four times.

Good luck.

ETA: You have to accept the fact that she is a serial cheater who has no problem lying to your face with no regards to your well being. The decision to D or R is totally yours but you need to base your decision on said fact.

[This message edited by Wanttobebetter at 10:55 AM, June 10th (Thursday)]

I was not ready to leave you yet

This right here tells you this was more than just a friendship. She wasn't ready to leave you YET.

That means she was planning to..just not yet.

She's an unremorseful serial cheater. She sounds like a spoiled brat.

Her reasons for cheating are stupid excuses.

Why are you wasting any amount of time with this person?

Hey man, trying to follow her twisted logic and lame-o excuses for cheating and near-cheating must be frigging exhausting.

She sounds very hard to please and in general a real handful.

Fixing this? A lifetime of your sweat and tears.

She sound like a very manipulative person. I cheated because dad died…That was 13 years ago, don’t I get credit for that?

I cheated cause I thought you would break up with me!

As an engagement is a commitment for marriage. It is a verbal contract. As the contract has been made null in void due to her actions she has to by law give the ring back.

Her statements are totally flawed. It has been 13 years since I committed a crime so I should get credit for being good for that time. NO, time to be accountable for her flawed decisions and actions. Also grown ups don’t meet up for six hours of talking. Sorry 😞

One day at a time.

Why are you wasting your time?

She doesn’t get it. She will never get it. She doesn’t want to get it.

I’m not saying you should end the relationship or telling you what to do. But for your own sanity get out of this cycle of “trying to talk with her”.

Best thing I ever did at dday2 and months of false reconciliation was to disengage and stop playing my H’s game. I stopped trying to reason with him to make him get it. I stopped allowing him to manipulate me. I stopped being a doormat. I stopped making excuses for him.

But mostly I started living in reality with the lying cheating jerk he was instead of holding out hope he would change and stop cheating.

It was his second EA but this time he was going to D me. For someone he knew a few months.

So dday2 I told him I was D him and he was free to go and be with whoever he wanted to be with. The OW or anyone else. And I told him a few days later to get out. He refused. I told him he had no choice b/c he wasn’t staying with me. He had to go and I made plans for him to stay with a friend until he found a place to go permanently. He was in his own.

And he had no choice. I was not supporting him any longer.

I didn’t care if he got it or respected me or hated me. I was done being used and disrespected by him.

As I said best move I ever made.

Holy crap does your story resonate with me.

First off, you're being a push over. Step back from your first-person viewpoint of your relationship and look at it from 50' and then 500' above it. When have you not been a push over for her? Don't confuse you being one with you being kind to her. A push over is unhealthy for both of you. It's time that you begin to draw lines in the sand and then enforce her respecting those lines.

Start by reading a book called "No More Mr. Nice Guy." -I promise that you will quickly begin to identify with the dialog.

Stop rug sweeping and allowing her to press it on you. Shut that shit down immediately. Been there man. I get it, it's hard. But it's POISON to your mind and body. You can not force her to not want to rug sweep but you can stomp out her making wants for "you to get over it" or "you to move on" known to you. Rug sweeping is a nice way of referring to acts of hardcore, ruthless and self-serving manipulation on the topic of intimate betrayal.

Stop attemping to reason with her. If you want to say what's on your mind, do so. But accept that you are doing it for you and not her. It's not a conversation but you've not hard an authentic conversation with her anyways. Based upon what you've shared, she does not listen to you nor care what you say. Accept that. *From now on*, you are no longer her soapbox.

FOR GOD'S SAKE, STOP DOING RECOVERY WORK *FOR HER*. You're doing both of you a disservice. How will you ever know what's in her heart if you are the one making the timeline for her (or pressing her for it -again, I get it my man...been there and yeah it sucks) or you are sharing videos, articles or anything else you feel she should want to research. She will show you what's important to her if you allow her to.

Accept that you don't have to make your final choice at this time.

There's more but that's all I have time for right now.

I don't mean to come across in a curt way. I know life sucks right now man and you feel every single possible emotion. But you must be your own agent for change. She is fine with rug sweeping and the status quo so you need to be the catalist for what's new and different. This is why members have repeatedly asked you "what do YOU want?" Only you can build that.

What is the term? Sunk Cost Fallacy. What is it exactly that you are hoping and or expecting from her? Seems all her exchanges point to her hoping that you will accept that you were substantially responsible for HER infidelities. Infidelities in plural since you know about multiples and likely are in the dark about more. What are you trying to save? To use another well worn but applicable phrase it is time to "rip off the band-aid".

Skyla, if you keep doing the same thing each time she cheats then you will keep getting the same results, more cheating.

You can't look to her for answers or for healing, you have to do what is best for you and for how you feel. She will (as they all do) only say and do what suits her, now and in the future.

Its your life but please don't go down the same road thinking it'll somehow be different this time, because it will be exactly the same as the other 3 times. You have the evidence of how this goes - you have to either find the strength to do things differently this time, or accept she's going to keep hurting you until she decides one day it really is over.

Blame-shifting is when a person does something wrong or inappropriate, and then dumps the blame on someone else to avoid taking responsibility for their own behavior.

You should recognize this script by now.

I didn't sleep with him, we only talked and I was not ready to leave you yet does that mean anything?

You should also know cheaters lie a lot.

[This message edited by Marz at 10:47 AM, June 10th (Thursday)]

I am sorry for the loss of your father, that shakes us up more than we realize.

I read your posts from beginning to end, and the last one really upset me. Basically it's all about HER needs. She made excuses for her behavior, and even with the things you listed in trying to do for she doesn't recognize the efforts you made. That's because she needed a reason to look in the mirror everyday.

This is the 5th discovery, right? Respect yourself and stop with this woman. She is toxic and she will do it again.

...she hopes i get what I want someday and be happy cause I would never want to marry a whore.

I'm glad you didn't fall for her self-deprecation tactic here and tell her she's not. That was her goal.

OTOH she's probably right.

You've caught her 4 times. Answer this honestly...

Do you really think the only times she has cheated are when you caught her?

Just a quick update cause things have been quiet for a couple weeks. I gave her space to see how she would react or what she would do and she hasn't said one word about her affair. I was hoping she would at least ask me how I was doing with it or something. Then today while I'm at work now she texts me and says she is going swimming with her friend and friends BF at a guy friends house. This is also the same GF that covered up her affair for 2 months. I wold her how I didn't like it at all and there was no trust between us and there are always guys at this persons house. She said no, it's just gonna be us 3, her, friend and friends BF and she wants to get out of the house and go swimming so she's going. Doesn't seem to care how I feel about it and thinks I'm over reacting. Now I have to go through all day at work with this anxiety.