SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Flossy,

everything that he is doing is manipulative.... MANIPULATIVE. You asked him to leave you alone. Did he actually leave you alone? or did he do what he wanted which was to email you, or leave you treats for easter. You need to see this stuff in a different light. If he really respected you he would do what you asked him to do. HE IS NOT!! HE IS DOING WHAT HE WANTS.

Guess what. He will continue to do what he wants when he wants. He is not working on himself... He is doing all of these things just to find a way back into your life.

Here is a real test. If you dump him and stay no contact for a year, will he still be in counseling?? would he be is SA groups?? Would he be doing this stuff because he wants to get better??

What I am asking, would he be willing to do it for himself, because right now he is only doing this stuff because he is trying to keep you in the picture.

You are worth more than this.

Flossy

The longer you stay in this relationship with him the more likely it is that you will end up intertwined with his life . You will probably have kids together , you will find jobs in the same place , buy a home together .

And since he may never stop cheating on you - the damage he will likely do is incremental . Yes its possible that he might become a non cheater , its not likely though .

We all know its hard to let go , it only gets harder the longer you wait . What does your therapist say about develop coping strategies ?

I hope you realize you are being love bombed by him. He cheated and lied and is doing “everything and anything “ to win you back.

It’s temporary. Once he feels you are fully invested in the relationship he will revert back to his former self.

Re-read my story about getting away from the alcoholic XBF. It wasn’t 2 months after I got back together with him that he was sneaking out to the bars until 4 am. One of my sibs saw him one night and casually mentioned it to me like “hey I saw your BF last night at the bar”.

Interesting how he swore up and down he was not at that bar except for a quick beer to say hi to someone. Whatever. Point is I thought it was love and he valued me. Nope he valued the alcoholic bar lifestyle more.

Same with your “I’m willing to do anything” guy. He’s capitalizing on your loneliness. He’s playing you.

Re-read EllieKMAS again. She has nailed it.

EllieKMAS

Your first post on this site was on February 13th - about 2.5 months ago. You have not *really* been NC with him long enough to start flexing those NC muscles IMO and really truly open your eyes to any possibilities outside of this guy.

this really resonates with me because, i really havent been no contact that long. im getting scared cause each time i go back to him i feel more comfortable and connected and like i am forgetting the bad. I dont know how to portray this to you guys but he seriously would do anything for me. i know it doesnt make sense cause he was going behind my back. but he says that since i confronted him in july 2020 he hasnt done it again... can i trust this?? i dontk know

it just is so hard because everyone that knows him seems to think i should give him a second chance cause he is such a good guy.

What does your therapist say about develop coping strategies ?

well she tries to change my view point. into remember that he is not trust worthy. when i told her i wanted to go with him on a trip for my birthday cause i didnt want to be alone.

she changed my mind and said how bout this is a new birthday. and you do something totally different

I know if i was out of this town i could move on. im working on this, but it might take me 2 more months then i expected.

this is actually crazy. i would NEVER expect myself to be in a "toxic" relationship. thats why i keep thinking well why cant i forgive?

but then again even before i knew about the online affairs i didnt want to marry him... whats going to change now.

Gosh... I just want to break free and see the future and that ill be better off

thank you all so much for responding. i really read every word and take it to heart. so please even if you have something simple to say i would love to hear

but then again even before i knew about the online affairs i didnt want to marry him...

This is the part I don’t get. On one hand, you know you don’t want to marry him but you want a future and kids with him?? Kids are a much bigger commitment than marriage, they are a lifelong chain to the father. How can you see yourself with one and not the other?

I think that you need to take a step back from him and maybe relationships in general for a little bit, and work on your expectations of what a partner should be and what they should give you because I think your expectations around this are not realistic and you are going to end up unhappy.

Focus on doing your travel nursing. If he is genuinely sorry and worth another go, he’ll still be there when you come back from your travels and he should not want you to give up an exciting adventure. I think it’ll do you a lot of good in general to get away from the attitudes of people around you who shouldn’t be wanting you to settle for less. I also think seeing more outside of your own town and experiencing different things will really enrich your life and be fun. Focus on that, stop talking to him for now and tell him you are just focusing on getting ready to go.

Not even married yet? Good. Count your blessings and curb his lying ass. Ta ta

but he says that since i confronted him in july 2020 he hasnt done it again... can i trust this??

I wouldn't trust anything he says... but I am further out than you are. Just saying - you have no reason to believe a known liar.

i dontk know

it just is so hard because everyone that knows him seems to think i should give him a second chance cause he is such a good guy

"Everyone else" doesn't have to live with a cheater. "Everyone else" can have any opinions they want, but the only opinion that matters here is YOURS. And no, he isn't 'such a good guy'. GOOD GUYS DON'T CHEAT ON THEIR PARTNERS. That is patently not 'good guy' behavior.

this is actually crazy. i would NEVER expect myself to be in a "toxic" relationship. thats why i keep thinking well why cant i forgive?

Just speaking for myself, but forgiveness has nothing to do with him. My dad was a toxic narc abusive a-hole that I cut ties with a long time ago. It took years, but I have forgiven him. Still doesn't mean I want a relationship with him. (also - remove those air quotes from toxic - this guy is exactly that).

Don't let anyone tell you you're 'unforgiving' if you decide to cut ties. Forgiveness doesn't mean subjecting yourself to a toxic person.

then again even before i knew about the online affairs i didnt want to marry him... whats going to change now.

I know how confusing all this is, but this right here... If you know you don't want to marry him, then why are you so insistent on holding on to the "he's my only chance" thought? Sometimes going through all this in the early days I felt like my brain needed a wtf-shake - and this is me giving you one. I think challenging our own conflicting thoughts is important to try to gain some clarity.

thank you for your thoughtful replies.

What i find most interesting is, if he wouldnt have kept pursuing me i would have been able to move on... does this mean i know deep down he isnt the one, or am i not a person to fight for anyone...

I think that you need to take a step back from him and maybe relationships in general for a little bit, and work on your expectations of what a partner should be and what they should give you because I think your expectations around this are not realistic and you are going to end up unhappy

i really appreciate this comment. As i often see myself as knowing whats right and whats best. i often think that i am quite self aware. but yes maybe you are right.. maybe i need to take a step back and really evaluate myself because obviously i am quite confused and weak.

Sometimes going through all this in the early days I felt like my brain needed a wtf-shake - and this is me giving you one. I think challenging our own conflicting thoughts is important to try to gain some clarity.

thats exactly it! i feel like someone needs to shake me and tell me straight up. but then i get lost when i am seeing him. and i think to myself well maybe my situation is different?

i have counselling today and my plan is to get some strategies on how to stay away from him. i really do feel smothered and confused like i cant think when i am seeing him daily.

I just need to make plans so i can tell him sorry i am busy. or i need to literally tell him straight up.. please leave me alone.

it just sucks cause of all the dreams we formed together.

its also hard to hear you guys call him names. When i think deep down he is sorry and is trying to change

last night- i asked him questions about his flirting with other girls and he told me and was open. never before could he do this. Also im starting to think there was some things that were made worse in my head.

he also told me how in his "my eyes only" snap chat- he had deleted innapropriate pictures prior to be ever finding out cause he was trying to work on himself

anywho i hope counselling today will bring some clarity

[This message edited by flossy at 11:45 AM, April 27th (Tuesday)]

i have counselling today and my plan is to get some strategies on how to stay away from him

I am of the belief that it is like any other bad habit. Cold turkey is the only way to do it. Delete/block is an excellent strategy. And yes, you will have withdrawal pangs and some pain, but the longer you are distanced, the easier it gets. Just my 0.02.

if he wouldnt have kept pursuing me i would have been able to move on...

i really do feel smothered and confused like i cant think when i am seeing him daily.

This is classic narc-style manipulation. That's the point of him doing this - to keep you off kilter and reeled in. It is so easy to get confused and start second-guessing yourself - narcs play on that. But when you start looking at the individual behaviors as part of the bigger narc portrait, it becomes easier to spot the manipulations for what they are.

i asked him questions about his flirting with other girls and he told me and was open. never before could he do this. Also im starting to think there was some things that were made worse in my head.

Also very classic narc twistiness. You don't know if he was 'honest' with you or if he was telling you just enough to keep you hooked, but either way you have zero reason to believe in his 'openness'. And making you think that things aren't what they are... boy I know that tune. But you know? I knew what I knew in my situation and you do too, no matter what he is telling you to 'see'.

As far as him 'working on himself'... Well, if he is actually serious about that and not just manipulating you with some dope hopium, then he will work on himself whether you are around or not. And you don't owe him to stick around and help him unfuck his shit.

Flossy honey I get how hard this is, I really do. I get how confusing and upsidedown it feels dealing with someone like this. BTDT. All I can say is that getting space and distance with NC from a person like this helps so much in clarity and being able to spot these tactics for what they truly are. It makes it easier to see the fact that loving caring honest people would never treat you like this or make you second-guess your own reality.

he treats me so well (he always has, this is not new). will do whatever i want. always wanting to buy me coffee or dinner. mowing my lawn when we werent talking.

on my birthday he made me a cake and gave me the sweetest card.

Go back to your first post. Read about all of the different times you found out he had been cheating. Then try to tell yourself "he has always treated me well."

He is your first real love which is probably why you are holding on to him so badly. You don't have the experience of other men to see what you really want. Please don't settle for this kid. Do your nurse traveling thing and grow for your own benefit, and for his.

Think on this: we teach people how to treat us.

If we put up with shoddy treatment or allow people to make promises to us that they don't intend to keep, we are showing them in very meaningful ways that we will put up with it. And trust me, people who treat their partners poorly and engage in behavior that damages the relationship is someone who is not treating their partner well. THAT is on THEM.

However, if you choose to "reward" him by hanging out and engaging in relationship activities, THAT is on YOU. You are showing him clearly that he probably doesn't need to change very much. That some quasi-sincere words, a carefully constructed tear and some empty promises are all it takes to have you back in a relationship with him.

For that same reason, he has no reason to believe you when you tell him you don't want a relationship with him because here you are, doing relationship things with him.

If you really want to move forward, block him from every conceivable way of communicating with you, block him from your phone and all social media and move on.

I have found it helpful to make "dates" with myself for things like weekends. Maybe I will plan to garden, or maybe I will plan to go to a place I haven't been. This weekend, for example, I'm going to check out a nursery my neighbor has been raving about. I mentioned it to another neighbor and now we're going to do it together.

Plan your alone time, and you'll find it's not weighing so heavily on you. If you can't have a pet right now, volunteer at an animal shelter. If you have an interest in art or history, check out how to become a docent at a museum. Volunteering will give you a healthy sense of self, allow you to meet like-minded people and give you purpose. Those are all positive things.

Look at it this way: an investment in yourself ALWAYS pays off.

Cat

Stop with the notion of “he’s the one”.

He was the one you loved until you found out he was not what he pretended to be. NOW he’s just a regular guy you once dated. He’s someone you used to know.

When the thoughts of your “great American love affair “ take over your brain, remind yourself of the “sad depressing infidelity “ you suffered.

And then move on from those poor miserable intrusive thoughts.

People dont get better because someone loves them out of their flaws or forgives them . People get better because the consequences of their own actions hurt too much ; for moral people the idea of hurting someone is a consequence thats enough to cause a change . He is a serial cheater . He is quite numb to other peoples pain.

A man worth investing in isnt someone with pretty manners or charm or even a shared history . All of those things are enough to cause feeling s. But You simply cant build anything with an immoral man .

You have to either let him go and invest in a better future or keep investing in him and let go of a better future . Right now you are trying to talk yourself into a raw deal to escape temporary pain , we have all been there .... i know how much it sucks . Hope you find a way out . Sending you strength .

You have to either let him go and invest in a better future or keep investing in him and let go of a better future . Right now you are trying to talk yourself into a raw deal to escape temporary pain , we have all been there .

YES. this is exactly it. I want to feel good now!

but i am delaying the inevitable. i am delaying my pain and healing. thank you

I am of the belief that it is like any other bad habit. Cold turkey is the only way to do it. Delete/block is an excellent strategy. And yes, you will have withdrawal pangs and some pain, but the longer you are distanced, the easier it gets. Just my 0.02

i believe cold turkey is what i need to do as well.

i just finished my counselling session and told him we need to stop our contact.

he responded:

I respect you. Doesn’t mean I agree with this.

I am truly yours. I have and am continuing to work on myself. For myself. And for us.

I don’t know what your counselor tells you but I really wish you could listen in on my sessions even as a silent guest.

I don’t expect you to love me overnight but am asking you for a courtship period. A trust gaining period. That is the main issue.

this is what sucks cause i dont want to be wrong

but im going to try be strong.

if he continues to message me i will block him.

this time feels harder??? what the heck

im so disapointed in myself that i keep going back on my word. saying one thing to him and then going back for some more comfort

this is what sucks cause i dont want to be wrong

You know, none of us have a crystal ball that will tell us exactly what will transpire tomorrow from the choices and decisions we make today.

But, that being said, past behavior is the BEST predictor of future behavior, and I believe his past behavior should drive your decision to cut him out of your life.

Sure, we can wonder "what if he really can change this time." That's normal. But if he hasn't made concerted efforts in the past, it's likely he will make no concerted efforts in the future.

I got the whole deal--tears, pleading, promises to change. And . . . he cheated again. And again. And moved me 1000 miles from my family and cheated. He never changed--he only did the bare minimum to keep me in the relationship.

He's still lying. Not sure about cheating, but he still lies. But now he is no longer my problem.

Cat

I don’t expect you to love me overnight but am asking you for a courtship period. A trust gaining period. That is the main issue.

Ummmmmmmm, I think that 'trust building period' is called 'dating'. And he already HAD this and he failed to pass muster. Like... miserably spectacularly failed.

And nosir uh uh, nooooooooope. The MAIN issue is that he felt entitled to CHEAT on his girlfriend. Aaaaaaand here he still is trying to dodge that fact.

You do NOT owe him anything he 'asks' for. You asked for love and respect and he gave you neither.

If he continues he’s to message you.......you will block him?? he already just contradicted himself when he said he respected you. He’s NOT respecting your request for him to stop trying to maintain the relationship.

Block Him now.

im getting scared cause each time i go back to him i feel more comfortable and connected

Habit. It is going to feel familiar. Being apart is uncomfortable in basic comparison unless you analyze it.

I had this happen with a person I had dated only casually but for quite awhile just after I separated from ex, and then saw him again a few months out and felt a huge unexpected glow of warmth and comfort. Yet I knew he wasn't a good match. (also a reason I didn't date anymore for quite awhile).

It was an epiphany for me, that this could happen even with someone I had not been entangled with, but had merely spent time with. This comfortable familiarity was not reserved just for cheater ex.

This is why people get back together with past boyfriend/girlfriends from relationships that ended in shambles. Old familiarity. Be on alert for this normal connecting human response and see it for what it is. It has no bearing on whether someone is good for you or 'the one' for you.

((((flossy))))

Honey - don't TELL him you're going NC / blocking him, just DO it.

ACTIONS speak louder than words.

And prepare yourself - he's going to amp up more and more to suck you in because it has always worked before.

Like a parent of a toddler. Once you have decided to say 'no' to something, the toddler will throw a temper tantrum and behave worse and worse and worse. Which is why it is IMPERITIVE that you do NOT give in - because what that does is teach the child how far they have to go to get what they want.

I'm not saying your particular POS cheater will throw a temper tantrum (though he might), but rather will continue his manipulative behavior and even increase it because that is what you taught him will work.

End it. Block him in any way possible, no leaks. Do not answer phone calls from any unknown number. Do not talk to anyone about him, and if anyone tries to start a conversation with you about him, inform them that you are no longer in a relationship with him and leave it at that. If they try to continue the conversation in any way, just say that you prefer not to talk about it. If they insist, then say you will have to leave since (a) it is none of their business and (b) they are not respecting your wishes on this point. Then leave.

Cat's ideas are good ones. I think that EVERYONE here has tried to help you move along towards healing. You want it to stop hurting - hey, we ALL get that. This feels like the worst thing that could happen to you because it is (with the possible exception of sudden death of a loved one).

But it's going to hurt more (while you are trying NC) before it starts to hurt less. That is something that you need to accept. But COMPLETE and TOTAL NC is the FASTEST way to heal. Not necessarily fast, and not without pain. But the fastEST.

He hasn't been good to you - he has CHEATED on you. Think about THAT.

What would you tell your best friend if she were in your situation? How about 'bullet dodged'. Because think about it. You could be tied together financially, with children and a mortgage, where it would be oh so much more difficult to disentangle yourself.

He is NOT R material. Please stop trying to convince yourself that he is. Or that (maybe) some day he might be. He's already had his chance. And you have given him a second and third and who knows how many more chances.

Let go. We are here to catch you when you fall.

Every time you think about contacting him (or accepting contact from him) - POST HERE INSTEAD. Just like anything else, it will get easier with practice.

((((flossy))))

if he continues to message me i will block him

Block him now, don't wait or you never will.