SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

No WW/WH is a “good candidate for R.” R is a gift that no cheater deserves. It’s altruistic, self sacrificing. Optimistically, it takes several years to progress. Pessimistically, it may never. You could invest another decade of your life into her only to have her degrade herself and fall for the next grimy toad who gives her a little attention.

It’s simple. Over the next year, five years, ten years, do you envision your life being better or worse with her? DO YOU THINK THIS WOMAN IS WORTH THE RETURN ON THE EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT, WORK, and PAIN OF R? Can you handle existing in a reality where every instance of infidelity in a movie or TV show gives you a flashback and you glance over at your WW with a feeling of disgust that you just can’t ever fully shake?

If yes, listen to the rest of the gang here begging you to R.

If not, get the hell out, divorce, and request that a moderator move this thread to the divorce section of the forum.

It’s truly up to you. Remember, you’re on an entire forum where people’s spouses have degraded themselves, betrayed there partners, and been used by complete scumbags. What amounts to “good” here is dogshit by the standards of a healthy marriage.

“She’s a good candidate for R”

Dear god. Have we all forgotten that good marriages and good people don’t ever have to think about D or R? Have we forgotten that happy couples wouldn’t know what the hell the acronyms here even mean?

PERSPECTIVE.

I bet you all the marbles that some goobers are going to reply with divorce and infidelity statistics, trying to convince you that really cheating is just so common, denying the existence of happy loyal couples, denying the existence of men/women who can keep it in their pants.

You kept it in your pants. All the BWs here kept it in their pants. Billions of people around the world keep it in their pants. Take everything here with a fat grain of salt, including my own words. Remember that basic psychology is always at play.

People will always be projecting their own situations onto you’re, viewing it through their own lens, and even trying to backwards rationalize their decisions vicariously through you.

You’re your own man. You have autonomy. Nobody can take that from you. This was a heavy handed reply, but this thread is beginning to sound like a bunch of teenage girls crying over romcom, not a bunch of grown men trying to support another man who has made a damned choice for himself.

[This message edited by Dignitas at 1:56 AM, January 14th (Thursday)]

WOW!!!!

Dignitas, that’s all I can say.

WOW!!!!

That last post by Dignitas should be posted on every thread created by someone that was cheated on.

Please read his post over and over and over and over again!!!!

I'm glad I didn't post before I read Dignitas. He has said it so much better than I could.

I've said, at least a couple of times on your thread, that your WW is "a good candidate for R". I don't know anyway else to say that if you offer the gift of R there's a possibility it could work.

People are pushing R at you. They don't have to live with your decision. You do. It doesn't matter if she did less than other WSs or more than other WSs. What matters is you and your life going forward.

Read Dignitas again and absorb it.

Dear god. Have we all forgotten that good marriages and good people don’t ever have to think about D or R?

I’m going to respectfully disagree here. How many people here at SI thought they had a good marriage until the cheating and affair occurred?

Not every marriage impacted by infidelity is a disaster prior to an affair.

I have posted my story here many times. I don’t need to repeat it all but suffice to say my H chose to cheat b/c of his own unhappiness and dissatisfaction with his life. Others would give their right arm to have what he had —Good family and friends, good career, nice house, healthy etc.

But I can tell you his affair and near D changed him. In a positive way. It’s like the end of the movie It’s A Wonderful Life. You realize what you have in life is so much more than you ever imagined. What you thought you wanted isn’t really what you want or isn’t really there — it’s an escape.

My H was lucky he woke up two seconds before it was too late. He is now a really great H. He’s thankful he was given a second chance with me. He recognized he made some mistakes snd poor choices but he’s no longer that guy he was for a year that was a liar and cheater.

Some people deserve a second chance.

I agree that the betrayed spouse has a choice. And they need to do what is best for them. Not denying that.

But some marriages do survive and thrive after infidelity. It is possible.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:00 AM, January 14th (Thursday)]

But I can tell you his affair and near D changed him. In a positive way. It’s like the end of the movie It’s A Wonderful Life. You realize what you have in life is so much more than you ever imagined.

My point, is that there are people out there who don't need to inflict the worst kind of trauma on their spouse to become the best partners they can be.

For every WW/WH like your husband, there are more who said all the right things and played the role of the remorseful partner, only to do it again.

I'm glad things worked out for you, but your story doesn't really mitigate my point.

Dignitas, you confuse the gift of recovery with being a

good candidate for recovery.

You have lost sight recovery is not just a gift for the WS. The

BS that wants recovery is gifting himself. And before you say

it is some gift they are giving themselves. Recovery is not

just getting past the affair.

It is the WS and the BS deciding they can move past the affair

and they have more to gain then lose if they recover.

Sex is a small part of life, an affair is a small part of ones

overall life. To throw away so many other valuable things

is to cut of your nose to spite your face.

Also some BS are not a good candidates for recovery.

Though when the WS and the BS are good candidates

and they want to they should give recovery a try. Some WS

were not good candidates for recovery after D day and they

divorced.

Only years later did they become a good candidate to recover.

Then approached their BS and have successfully recovered

and remarried their BS.

I have followed many FWW here that were good candidates

for recovery and they have recovered their marriages.

I will not mention their names because their hats will no

longer fit on their heads.

[This message edited by oldtruck at 8:20 AM, January 14th (Thursday)]

My issue isn't with people going for R. Good for them. My issue is with a man asking for advice on how to proceed with pursuing D and having 5 people spam him about how he should really be attempting R.

[This message edited by Dignitas at 8:25 AM, January 14th (Thursday)]

MrF, in your last post, you somewhat disregarded some advice you received from me and another poster.

You don't THINK your WW is trying to manipulate you. Why? You admit that she is desperate and will try anything, thus her offer to you of the RA. If she is so desperate, why would she NOT try to manipulate you? Her goal isn't necessarily nefarious, she just wants more time to change your mind on the D.

You also rejected the statement that she is not equipped for R, based on her offer of the RA. The reason the poster stated that is that your WW is clearly not understanding the issues YOU have and WHY you want a D. She doesn't understand that the RA wouldn't "even the score". Thus, she is not ready for R.

All of this is somewhat a moot point, as you have decided to D. Both I and the other poster are supporting your decision, based on what we wrote.

Based on what you have told us, it seems like the right decision. We are not fighting you. Most importantly, it is YOUR decision, and you seem rational. I hope you and your STBXWW are able to work through it quickly and fairly so you can both move on.

Dignitas

I think there are two kinds of men on this forum. Men who didn't struggle with women when they were younger and know there is a future for them, and men who think their WW is the best they can ever do and can't even fathom being single again. You can tell who is who quite easily by how fast they jump at the idea of R.

Actually I filed for divorce from my xWW very quickly after D-Day when I realized she was not going to do the hard work to save our marriage, nor was she remotely repentant or willing to change. I think with a WS like mine you have to move quickly and hit hard.

I don't get that same sense with OP's wife. Unlike my hooker of an ex, his WW did stop herself from going farther than second base. Does it absolve her? No, but it does mitigate the egregiousness of her crime against the marriage IMO. She does seem to be extremely remorseful and ashamed, whereas my xWW was just guilty and embarrassed.

I'm all for men preserving their self respect and dignity, but I also don't believe that reconciling with a cheater and conserving one's self respect are always somehow mutually exclusive. I don't buy that. Every case is different.

In this case, I think OP needs to determine the level of his WW's intent: was she just going to keep it to some kissing and a bit of petting and nothing more? Or, if OP had not found out and confronted her, would she have moved forward into a full P.A.? I think that is where OP and his wife need to focus their conversations.

If OP cannot live with the fact that his WW intended to have a full blown affair then he can divorce her with no shame. But if this was something that she sort of just slid into by slowly letting her boundaries fall, then maybe she is redeemable.

I dunno, just my thoughts. Again, I believe in redemption if the victim of the perpetrator is willing to truly repent and do the hard work to fix what they broke, but not if it is at the cost of the victim's mental health and sanity. Only OP can know if he is strong enough to extend grace to her.

I don’t see anybody begging you reconcile MrFibble, but I do see posts demanding you divorce.

It’s totally your call.

Do I think your marriage can be saved? Yes – if that’s what you want.

Do I think you should divorce? Yes – if that’s what you want. Your last posts say you want this so let’s go along with that.

The mind movies, insecurity, loss of trust to others and all that – you have to deal with them no matter what. Be it in this marriage or in your next relationship or just in general in life. If you were to commit to D, I would be suggesting IC to help with coping, and my last post to you when you let us know 12-18 months from now on the Divorce forum that it’s over… would be to suggest you seek IC for PTSD issues. Despite separating and removing myself from the infidelity I was rife with PTSD.

I can share that I think I did a near perfect separation after d-day and have since moved from the city I was living in at the time. I still visit, and some years ago I realized I avoided driving past the building we were living in because it was a trigger… This 20 years after the fact. Once I realized this, I could deal with it using the tools I got from my IC regarding PTSD. The affair can still come into my mind when I drive past, but doesn’t impact me negatively.

But maybe I’m only projecting my situation on yours…

If you were to R then my advice would be focused on getting you to understand that R is only partially about recovering from the infidelity. Granted it’s the main focus for the first year or so, but then it goes into working on the relationship in general. It’s maybe best compared to going to the gym: You might need intense daily dietary and work-out advice in the beginning when dealing with deadly obesity (d-day) but maybe 3-4 years down the road you have learned healthier habits and maybe a nice enjoyable 5 mile jog twice a week is enough.

I for one have never understood the “you can always get a new woman” logic some offer. It makes marriage and the choice of partners so disposable. It’s like telling a grieving parent they can always get a new child. Divorce or reconcile you need to deal with either trauma internally. Infidelity definitely is a major life trauma but divorce is so too.

People will always be projecting their own situations onto you’re, viewing it through their own lens, and even trying to backwards rationalize their decisions vicariously through you.

That is true, and I think it applies to nearly all (if not all) that share here.

MrFibble:

One thing I constantly hammer on: Make the affair reality. Cut the drama.

If you want a divorce, then start the process. Forget all ideas about her signing over the house or divorcing to start dating again or whatever. Divorce is a dime-a-dozen thing and there are rather direct and clear laws regarding how it goes through. The main contention tends to be custody but even that has some guidelines that generally apply. You don’t discuss the divorce with her, you discuss it with the legal representative be it a mediator or you own attorney. You want it to be friendly and amicable? Then stick to the laws – they ensure it’s as fair as it gets. Will still feel like unfair and total crap, but it IS as fair as it get’s.

There is an inevitability in divorce. For one the actual signing of the final decree is a formality. It’s the end of a process. You don’t have to keep the D a secret from others, live in the same house or whatever until the judge stamps the paper. If you are committed to D then start behaving as if this is real.

Talk to an attorney and find out how you two can separate physically without any limitations on possible rights regarding the home or custody

(Like if you were to move to your friends garage it wouldn’t impact your right to future residence in the marital home or limit your rights to prime custody. Same if she moved out).

Get him to list what info he needs. If meditation is possible in your state and what the rules are for divorce.

Start the practical financial division. Once again if you are the prime earner then ask the attorney what obligations you have. You cant cut off your wife completely because while married all assets (wages included) are joint. That might change if you file.

Prepare for telling the kids and let them know. It’s THEIR family, they have a right. Let other stakeholders know. It’s inevitable. If you are determined to divorce then 30 days from now you two don’t need to be living together.

Define your interactions during this process. What is expected? Who sleeps where? Is there an expectancy of cooperation? Like does she still cook your meals and you do the dishes?

If the above sound hard or harsh… Then think long and hard what you want.

The above is divorce. It’s reality. It’s not in any way an easy path, not any more than R. But R OR D beat the most often chosen path of wallowing in infidelity by a boatload!

She asked me few weeks back to not close the door on her even if we divorce and I am not. But I think real separation might help us but as I said, she doesn't want that.

I have specific experience relative to what you stated here. I made D a condition of attempting R. In other words, I said if there is no D there will not be any future "US" in any way.

My fWW wanted R option enough to agree to 100% of my dictating the conditions of D, relative to the legal aspects. Since she came through on turning over to me all conditions for our D, after D, I did enter into a process of R negotiation and trial.

In the end, a couple of years later, we did remarry. I got what I needed and wanted in getting out of the dead M, and she got the opportunity to try to create something new.

D does NOT inherently mean no future. What D means is up to you.

It’s been about two months since DDay. Since then you’ve learned that she didn’t sext and send nude pictures, she didn’t say awful things about you, she didn’t receive or perform any sex acts, she didn’t accept any hotel invitations, she didn’t say ILY, and she’s not in love with the OM she’s in love with you. You’re confident that you know everything based on the evidence.

In those same two months she’s been kicked out, exposed, told by her mother she’s better off without you, lost 10 lbs from mental anguish, quit her job, got fired from her job, went into therapy, begged, cried, vomited, pleaded, and she’s living with the fear of losing her husband and family everyday. After all that she’s mustered enough strength to do the things on her list of atonement that she came up with on her own, including the offer to put the house in your name and paying for her own therapy and apartment.

In those two months you’ve left your house, came back to your house, kicked her out to her mom’s house, brought her back to your house because you felt her mom was emotionally abusing her, then told her to find an apartment and move out. You’ve moved your entire thread to SI, a more pro-divorce forum than LS. You’ve now decided to divorce her after she initiated sex because the mind movies (of her kissing?) killed it for you.

Whatever happened to your three months is too soon to see if there is any hope? This reminds me of the joke about the hunter and the bear in the woods, based on your actions I guess you’re not here to save your marriage.

Whether unconsciously or not, you’re putting your wife through emotional torture with your combination of mixed messages, sped up timeline and indecision. If you’re going to decide this soon, make it definitive, rip off the bandage and move on. But if you truly want to attempt reconciliation, commit to the time it requires and make an authentic effort. This shouldn’t be a decision based on a knee jerk reaction to your wife initiating sex and you having mind movies and not feeling up to it. She’s initiating for you, so if you’re not ready it needs to be communicated to her.

Less we forget, there are young kids to consider. You need to decide if you still love her and want to keep your family together. You’re a young family so what you’re potentially giving up are all the memories you’ll make raising your kids together as a couple. These are the most treasured memories for any family, and your decision will impact whether you share them with your wife or someone else.

Best of luck.

My issue isn't with people going for R. Good for them. My issue is with a man asking for advice on how to proceed with pursuing D and having 5 people spam him about how he should really be attempting R.

There is a lot to be lost taking the divorce route.

OP has a WW who's affair was not that bad and her actions

post D day is her willing to recover. She does not know how

to do it. Lack of knowledge is solved by getting his WW the

tools simply by having her sigh up here and posting.

There are a lot of FWW that will mentor her.

There is nothing wrong with people advocating the OP recover his marriage.

According to your logic because a BH does not want to

expose the affair people here must stop telling him to expose

the affair. People do not always do what is in their best

interest. Do not come to forums if all one wants to do is to be

told what they want to hear, is that they are right.

There is a lot to be lost taking the divorce route.

I have an experience that contradicts this. D does not mean the options for R are not possible. D legally ends the contract that was already killed off by the A, it does not have to end a potential relationship. D offers potential closure for the BS that needs that closure and sense of control of their future.

Where D is an arduous and costly process, I get it. Where mutually agreeable D is reasonably doable, then D does not inherently a signal the end of a relationship. It only creates an end to the dead one.

In my humble view, any WS that refused to go along with D for an honest and committed effort of R by the BS is not likely a good candidate for R anyway.

Of course, I can only reflect from my own experience.

Before you pull the trigger on D I think it might be beneficial for you to read this:

The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: The 25 Year Landmark Study, by Judith Wallerstein

It is a pretty quick read, but with 2 young children, it is important that you make the most informed decision possible.

Wow this sounds blameshifty:

You’re a young family so what you’re potentially giving up are all the memories you’ll make raising your kids together as a couple.

If only there was some way for his WW to have avoided this altogether...

I agree with Dignitas, but maybe just a little bit less vehemently.

She went plenty far enough for anyone to decide to divorce her.

You find out your husband or wife is making out with someone? It is fine for you to decide to divorce them

Plenty of betrayed spouses wish they had bailed when they learned of "just a few kisses" which later turned into something much worse.

It doesn't have to be the worst of the worst like we often see, for someone to decide it is enough.

***

I would like to point out that there appear to be many posters who seem to be sure about what MrFlibble's wife did or did not do.

Respectfully, all we know about cheaters is that they lie, omit, and minimize, as well as delete and cover their tracks.

We do know that she got into a car with this man and he got his hand in her pants or something along those lines. That's not an accident. What else happened?

We don't know. You don't know. MrFlibble doesn't know. Only she knows, and she will never let it all out.

***

To the poster who described MrFlibble's wife engaging in "A little bit of romance" with a sleazebag who was cheating with 4 additional women, of course you are entitled to your own opinion as are the rest of us. But you should probably re-think that phrasing and that stance.

A little bit of sleazy romance is not acceptable in a committed relationship, whatever the ultimate decision is, divorce or attempted reconciliation.

A married woman jumping in a car in the parking lot with some asswipe so he can play grabbass and see how far he can take it is not "romance".

It's full-blown cheating.

***

MrFlibble did not find the smoking gun of full intercourse or similar acts.

Maybe they happened, maybe they didn't. I think he has made a mistake to not availing himself of all the tools of finding the truth. Because the truth is those tools are not just for busting cheaters lying, they are also for busting cheaters telling the truth!

MrFlibble - you should also know this about mind-movies: It's what you don't know that often make the worst mind movies. That is why I have been trying to persuade you to learn more by whatever means you can.

***

And for all the people who are worried that MrFlibble has not given his cheating wife enough of a chance, I see a lot flexibility in his words, for example with his expectations of seeing her every day.

He's on the rollercoaster.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 6:42 PM, January 14th (Thursday)]

I am sorry to hear this MrFlibble. I was hoping that this would turn out better for you both. But you do have to do what you have to do...

Wow, that's a lot to take in. Thank you all. I will try to come here more often since I honestly can't reply to you all once a day

I have nothing new to report, we are back to some kind of limbo now. My wife went from desperation to defeated silence, no idea which one is worse. Probably both. I will give her more time to process all this, and to myself too.

As some of you said, what's worst about this is that she does and says all the right thing but I am not sure it's enough I am afraid. And I told her that.

Yes, she's not the worst WW on this site, she didn't sleep with him, there were no ILY's exchanged. But it wasn't one drunken kiss at company's christmas party, it was a few months long affair purposefuly hidden from me with lies, gaslighting and making me the bad guy for snooping and questioning. Do I believe that she would not sleep with him given more time and opportunities? Absolutely not. She told me multiple times she would never sleep with him, but I don't believe that. The reasons why she never slept with him were me acting on my gut feeling and no opportunities to meet due to covid. That's what I am sure of to be honest. Given more time she would eventualy break and that's horrible to know.

I know I might sound harsh towards her but I can't help it but feel a lot of resentment for what she did to me and to our kids. It's a lot to swallow.

I am really tired (physicaly and emotionaly) so I hope few months apart might help with that

Brother just breath.

Take another breath, talk it out.

Breath again then repeat.

One day at a time and respect ✊ IC is a must for you to help

you through this regardless what advice is offered here.

Don’t shoot the messenger but some here need to ease up on Mr F.