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Hellfire- I get that and understand that but don’t tell people here that’s what I called people because I didn’t. She took it as “one thing”.... but said I said that.

“she called the majority of the WS posters spineless cowards”

If she feels this way maybe start it out like that.

She dont like what I had to say so she is twisting in her own way to fit her agenda and to get her point a cross.

You didn’t have the guts or maybe the balls

If you weren't implying people who didn't confess, but were caught, are cowards, then what did you mean by the above quote?

If you can better explain what you meant, people might be more receptive to what you are trying to say.

Just because you don’t agree that don’t mean that the other person is wrong.

In many cases, yes. Not here. Not when it comes to infidelity. Lying about it is ALWAYS wrong.

Well exactly as Hellfire pointed out. What else could you have meant?

But don't get me wrong by definition we are all spineless cowards to begin with, as we chose to cheat in the first place.

What struck me was the way you blasted your audience, your fellow WS and absolutely shamed us. And for what? What exactly was the point of that?

But, you are right gh, perhaps I should have prefaced that it was only how I precived your message. I think though you would be hard pressed to find anyone who didn't already understand it was just how I took it. In fact my first post made that clear. I think anyway.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, I just took the words you already said and condensed it.

My take on part of what Godheals was saying is the level of hypocrisy on display by some folks here who deride those who haven’t confessed but didn’t have the wherewithal to do it themselves. Case in point, just the other day another poster called me a “spineless gutless coward” for not confessing.

I see people telling folks to respect boundaries, follow the rules here on SI yet I appear to be the exception to the rule. As Hikingout pointed out earlier, I don’t post as much anymore. Why? Because in almost every case and regardless of topic, every one of my threads turns into a chorus of “Confess”! Where is the respect I’m supposed to be afforded as a poster on SI? What happened to the SI rule to stay on topic? Since it is abundantly clear to everyone that I’m not going to at the present time, why harangue me over it? Because the rules only seem to apply in some cases but not all.

I know this has become a circular argument because the same thing happens over and over and neither side is likely to change.

I think the reason FL posted what she did,is because you said you had more respect for those who confessed

I am going to tread very lightly here because it's not that you don't have a valid argument. But, I can not count how many BS have told me they respect that I told on my own. I have always kind of shrugged my shoulders on that because I shouldn't have had anything to tell in the first place. But BS say that sort of thing often, and wonder out loud (like I myself as a BS have) would they have stopped? Would they have confessed? What would have happened if they hadn't been caught?

FF at least did stop on his own, which is something I do not relate to in the least because I am not sure if I would have or what it would have taken. Nor do a big number of other WS who come here. I am only fortunate that it did stop when it did.

I am also certain had it gone on longer I would have been caught, and it would have been hard to tell that truth in that capacity. In fact, I am going to say at least I had some time to prepare for it and know not to TT, to plan my words a little better. A newly caught WS is typically in damage control. A confessing WS is also doing damage control but maybe a bit more effective kind that is has the benefit ofh more information, preparation,etc.

But, I do think it does make a difference in what we are asking FF to do. The majority of WS are caught and then take their sweet time in telling all the details putting a BS through many ddays. I am not saying what they had to do to tell the truth wasn't as hard, but there is an added layer to sit down and just say all of it on your own volition. Ripping the bandaid off in one sitting. Ending the lies right then and there.

I personally think all WS are cowards, including myself because of our actions. But, I am also going to say that she's not wrong when she says that we are asking him to precipitate a full confession and few of us actually know what that is like. (Edited To ADD: That doesn't mean he shouldn't do it either. I absolutely think he should) It doesn't mean at all that we are better, but it is a different experience. I personally feel like if it had happened the other way for me, that would have been far worse to deal with because I can't imagine how bad getting the truth out of me would have been, but I can't speak to that experience either.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:26 PM, December 15th (Tuesday)]

There is nothing wrong to say that I can relate to a certain thing better then most. It don’t mean I am calling people names or trying to put them down because of it.

I don’t have a clue what to say to the people who talk about they can’t remember and need help doing this because I didn’t have that problem. I can’t come up with helpful tips to help this person. So I just stay off.....

I am not trying to say we need to pat this person on the back and say good job. We don’t need to hold his hand and say everything is going to be ok like a 5 year old.

I am not saying we should support it. I am not saying we should just say it’s ok.

What on earth needs to be said that this person has not heard already? What new things need to be thrown out there that he has not already read and told over and over again???

He knows all this. He knows what will happen if or when his wife finds out. He knows the consequences. He knows all this a million times over. We have given him all the reasons in the world on why he should tell his wife. Bottom line he knows.

Backing off on someone who knows all this don’t mean we support it, or we are saying it’s ok. It’s learning to come to the point we have said all we could but now it’s up to him to make this first step on doing so.

I can’t imagine anyone here never having people in their life that come to you over and over again with the same problem and you giving them the same speech over and over again until you stop and think to yourself “wow I have told this person over and over again what they need to do or how they can change their life but they just keep on doing the same old thing and never listen” with you finally making the choice to distance yourself from them because they need to be willing to help themselves first in order for you to continue to help them. I bet lost of people here have done this many times in there life.

I know lots of people here what his wife to know the truth. And people talk on how scared they are for her. I don’t know that feeling so I am not going to talk about it I just know that’s what people say on here. And for all the new WS who come here and don’t want to or don’t know if they can tell their spouse the truth we need to do the best we can to help them with this.

I am trying to explain this in a certain but I just think that people here are trying to say that what I am saying is we need to support or say this is ok when I am not.

I just don’t know any of way to explain it different.

What on earth needs to be said that this person has not heard already? What new things need to be thrown out there that he has not already read and told over and over again???

Well to that godheals, then I will say again what I mentioned in my first post here.

You cannot discount or ignore where we are posting. That confess drum will always be on high because it is what's right.

Don't like it? I don't know what to tell you.

I guess take what suits your end game and leave the rest.

Oh wait.

So it’s ok for others to call FF a “ spineless gutless coward” because he has NOT yet told his wife the truth

BUT it’s not ok for someone who “might of” in some round about way call others this because they didn’t do this in the first place.

Are you going to be voice for FF here also because someone called him a “ spineless gutless coward”

Or this just applies to people who didn’t but there spouse knows but it really don’t matter how they know they just know and that’s not the point here. Right?

Because the end of the day we are all lairs and cheaters.

I guess the some rules don’t apply to you FF but do to others for some reason or another that someone might tell me why and it’s going to be ok because you have not told your wife the truth yet so I guess you are what that other person said.

I can’t imagine anyone here never having people in their life that come to you over and over again with the same problem and you giving them the same speech over and over again until you stop and think to yourself “wow I have told this person over and over again what they need to do or how they can change their life but they just keep on doing the same old thing and never listen” with you finally making the choice to distance yourself from them because they need to be willing to help themselves first in order for you to continue to help them. I bet lost of people here have done this many times in there life.

I agree with this.

One of my best friends and I had to put a moratorium on discussing my H for this very reason. She thinks it’s ridiculous that I don’t have a specific, fairly-near-future timeframe for divorce, and we have discussed our respective points of view on the subject ad-nauseum. She doesn’t agree with me, and I don’t agree with her. We have mutually decided to drop the topic from conversation because it became a hamster wheel going nowhere and both of us were just getting frustrated.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 2:42 PM, December 15th (Tuesday)]

After reading this thread...I guess I kinda agree with godheals ..but from a very different perspective.

I look at this like....why bother? Posters who cling to the belief that "not telling" but stop screwing the AP I don't waste time on.

I tend to believe posters who chose not disclos They didn't stop the affair...they stopped screwing the AP. Big difference.

The lies, stealing of choice, hiding behind their image, making excuses and rationalizing remain. They just don't put their lady/man bits in/on another person.

Posting in PRS...while actively lying was acknowledged as lack of introspection...and I think we can accept that.

Because honestly....a person who continues to lie in the manner as that particular poster is a master at self deluding. Why expect something different when they have clearly show us that they are unwilling to change?

So honestly....I commend BS and WS who continue to engage, prod and care enough to have those posters be the best versions of themselves. Because there are many BS and WS who have given up on them.

I foreverlabeled-

I find it odd that you had nothing to say about what FF had said because your too busy making your point with me.

Are you going to be a voice to him also?

If not then get off my thread. Because your a hypocrite who only wants to depend yourself!!!!

You can’t handle it when you “think” someone called you that but FF gets called every name in the book and people like you don’t stand up for him!!!! All because he has not told his wife the truth!!! That’s bullshit!!!

Get off my damn thread now because I have nothing more to say to you ever again! A freaking joke.....

Oh...and your wrong.

I continue to have the conversation with my best friend about coming out to his family...because he is FREAKING Awesome and deserves to be loved and valued for his fabulous self.

Talk everyday about.

Me:you know you need walk in your truth

Him: I can't. She will hate me, condem me, etc

Me: I'm not gonna stop cuz you fucking rock.

Him: I know...dont give on me. Love you

Me: love you too

Almost everyday. And I won't stop and he knows it.

Oh I've absolutely stood up for ff before.

My apologies godheals, my intention was never to upset you so deeply.

I will most certainly respect your wishes.

Thank you 😊

he has NOT yet told his wife the truth

Let's stop with the use of words like "yet."

The man has said he WILL NOT tell her. He has been a member for FOUR YEARS. He has said he SKIPS PAST ALL POSTS TRYING TO GET HIM TO CONFESS.

It's not that he is new,and considering it. He was called that because he has said he will never tell her.

Hiding and lying about the affair IS cowardly.

BUT it’s not ok for someone who “might of” in some round about way call others this because they didn’t do this in the first place.

don’t tell people here that’s what I called people because I didn’t.

So either you said it .or you didnt..or you kinda in a round about way said it.

Good grief.

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:07 PM, December 15th (Tuesday)]

Meanwhile, we have a new member, Cz23, that started a post and could benefit from some of everyone's collected wisdom. Lets try and do some good for someone who could use it.

hellfire

Hiding and lying about the affair IS cowardly.

I find it amusing that you completely twisted what godheals said, ignored what I said in my last post to throw yet another arrow.

Spin it however you want but what I said in my last post stands.

[This message edited by ff4152 at 3:51 PM, December 15th (Tuesday)]

Welcome to the FF show... again. It's not about FF. Never was. No need to feed the topic more attention, he's made it clear how he feels and what his plans are.

The point, minus the drama, is that when new people come here, this is what can happen...

A newly cheated on BS from JFO might jump into "Positive Reconciliation Stories" and read about the WS who never confessed and see everyone praising him for how great he's doing... and what does that say about SI and where we stand on that topic?

A newly discovered WS might jump on and read about the WS who never confessed and think, "Oh, cool, I can just keep it a secret", and again, what does that say?

That is the argument at hand. It's not the man, it's the topic. You can defend the man all you want, but the topic remains.

And one last thing. Yes, ALL WS's are, at some point, certainly during the affair, spineless cowards. We just are. BUT, some of us get sick of being spineless cowards and take steps to NOT be that kind of person. Confess, get caught, whatever... at some point, both the BS and WS will have to face the reality of the affair. Unless, of course, one party does not know. THAT is what is at stake. That's why we discuss FF at all. At this point it is almost impossible to not mention him when this topic comes up, despite the rules, because of how important this topic is and how it has grown. We did not choose FF to be the "poster boy" for this topic, let's be clear on that. That's his decision, to do what he thinks is right, and his consequences to deal with based on that, same as all of us. He can change that tomorrow. His decision. His choice. His consequences.

One last thing. Not that it matters or is on topic, but I think a LOT of people are 100% rooting for FF, including myself. Because he's a smart guy who is trying, in his own way, to be a better person. He pisses people off because he's his own worst enemy, same as most WS's that come here. I was exactly the same. Took me forever and a lot of people calling me out to get there. Hope remains for all of us.

I think the point was made the other day that, aside from getting mad at us for deriding him, he could also try not deriding us for telling him to try what he hasn't tried. So it's pretty even-steven I think.

Just my suggestion, but this thread seems to have jumped the shark. Just sayin.

Pointing out the inconsistencies in her posts is hardly twisting her words.

I read your last post. You believe you are a victim.

Since you need attention, here are my comments..

just the other day another poster called me a “spineless gutless coward” for not confessing.

And I would bet that poster would say the same about not confessing himself. The difference is, he is now in an honest, transparent marriage, and is working on himself.

see people telling folks to respect boundaries

Yes..in reconciliation, boundaries are absolutely discussed.

follow the rules here on SI yet I appear to be the exception to the rule.

You were called a name by a fellow wayward. It was harsh. Was it true? And did you report it to a mod,since he broke the rule?

I don’t post as much anymore. Why? Because in almost every case and regardless of topic, every one of my threads turns into a chorus of “Confess”! Where is the respect I’m supposed to be afforded as a poster on SI?

Expecting a WS to be honest to his betrayed wife is the right thing to do. That doesn't equal disrespect. And, the snarky side of that is..where is the respect for your wife? You want respect, but won't give it. That is the epitome of wayward thinking.

Since it is abundantly clear to everyone that I’m not going to at the present time, why harangue me over it? Because the rules only seem to apply in some cases but not all.

Again..because it's the right thing to do. And..again..because there are lurking WS, and allowing them to think its ok to hide their affair from their BS does them, their BS, this site and all of its members, a huge disservice.

Because the rules only seem to apply in some cases but not all.

This is a very well moderated forum. If you feel the mods aren't doing their job, let them know.

Now that I have given you the attention you wanted, I'm going to point out that you continue to dismiss those of us who want you to confess FOR YOU. So you can be loved for who you are, and not who you pretend to be.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:15 PM, December 15th (Tuesday)]

Hellfire

See? Once again you proved my point. If I disrupt the narrative, I must be seeking attention. Totally impossible that I could have a valid point.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Welcome to the FF show... again. It's not about FF. Never was. No need to feed the topic more attention, he's made it clear how he feels and what his plans are.

If it wasn't then why was this ever a public conversation? Mods were alerted and removed because it violated the guidelines. Ostensibly, FF was told in private by the mods why it was done. That is usually how matters are addressed when it is not the person but the substance. Since the harm has been removed and FF has been informed, why is this even a topic if it is not about FF personally?