Guys I hear you. I do. I am doing the best I can at this point. If I have painted him as eager to give me the details that is not my intention. It's that he goes into trying to tell me what happened like as a narrative and I can't do it and I keep redirecting him. I would say he is only eager in that he wants us to talk. He is beside himself, sobbing, and in these ways I don't recognize him at all. I know he is black and white to you, but there is a lot of history here, a lot of love, it's hard for me to get as black and white as everyone else. I am watching everything closely, but at this point I expect there to be some bullshit. We all know in every single circumstance we have ever seen on here, the WS starts out full of bullshit before they do the work. So, it's all just a waiting game right now.
And, you know, you all think of me one way and that's the person I have evolved to be. He didn't start cheating on me after I evolved. He cheated on me in the thick of it. That's why it's hard to separate it from my affair. I don't feel it gave him a pass, but I can say I would feel differently if this had started up at a later point rather than when it did.
Here is just a sketch so maybe it may help it frame it for you all in the way I am looking at it. And, know - I am NOT excusing it, condoning it. I will hold his feet to the fire if he isn't doing his part. He has a hard road ahead I don't think he can fake his WS work, I truly believe I will know because not only have I done my own I have coached many others here and have watched them. I will not be his coach on this, I have already made that clear to him. He has far more info than I did when I started my work, if he wants it he has to do it.
My A ended at the beginning of July 2017.
I told him at the beginning of Sept 2017 after having some IC. I was foggy as fuck and still "in love" with the AP.I committed to NC and confessed everything but I pined for another 6 or so months.
At month 9 he was at his breaking point and he asked me for a divorce.
At that point he told the OBS, who told the AP. I did confirm that with OBS yesterday in between his ranting. He said that he was afraid of what that meant for their work/our properties. He was pissed at me and encouraged H to take me for all I had. There was lots of discussion during this point between OBS and AP.
We of course went to in house separation for a while and then I begged him to give me another chance.
That brings us to - I don't know almost the summer of 2018. And most of that is history I knew backwards and forwards other than the people who were working for us knowing or what impact that might have in the future.
He said when he let go of the divorce he truly thought he had let go of it and that we could move on. But, it was bumpy as you all know it is. He didn't do IC, he didn't talk to anyone. Other than me, it was only these other two people who knew.
He said that at some point past that he found out the lady knew too. And from time to time she would ask how he was doing and sometimes the answer was curt and other times things just started spilling out.
Over time, there was a bond and a trust there, and the way I see it, these are not his words because I do not think he had put it together like this - this secret and burden he was carrying around fused them. He didn't talk extensively to the forum, he didn't talk to anyone but me, eventually I think she became his confidant. It should not have been that way, but how many BH's on here tell us all sorts of shit they can't say to their WS? My husband was no different. He bottled, he manned up, he went to his way of coping with the stoicism. It didn't work.
The weird thing is on this one track of his mind the entire time he believed he was fine and that we could get through it. My early writing here haunted him. Again, he didn't tell me that in these recent weeks, I knew it long ago. I am the one who is building this timeline for you, he is not blaming me or my A at all. I am not either but I am trying to illustrate where we actually were when this happened. The time lapse makes it seem like I became this other person and then he decided to get me back. I don't think that's what happened. It happened around the time I think I really got to cooking on my work and he was so exhausted and turned inside out by what happened.
Eventually, she started bringing him things she baked or business items and she would linger longer and longer. She started encouraging him to go through with the divorce, and saying he deserved better, you all know the drill.
I think part of him saw what I was doing and how hard I was working and wanted to hang his hat on that. He wanted to be strong, and see himself that way. This other track that started with her gave him the kibbles and the dopamine. He is ten years older than me, she is 7 years younger than me. I think part of him felt encouraged that someone else would show him interest if he did decide this wasn't working. I see it (and again, HE isn't saying this next part. He is a mess) as he used her to bolster himself while working things through with me, and between those two things felt those things he wrote.
I did ask him about it - why did he even write in the forum? Mostly because so many people here mentioned it. And he said he felt like he was supporting me. He didn't like that I was staying somewhere that people were ugly to me and he saw it as defending me. I don't get that either. In all that is happening it's hard for me to really care what he wrote or didn't write in the scheme of things. At least at this point. However, I mean no offense to anyone, I can understand if his way of communicating made anything harder for you. I don't think that was an intention, his concerns and issues were around me. I actually kind of believe he was legitimizing me, because he felt guilty about what he was doing and he knew I was working so hard. In his wayward mind, I was getting better and he was getting worse and he wasn't sure what to do about it. And, I look back and think did I really get in the floor with him? Or did I just try and get better and coach him along with me?
None of this excuses his affair. But, this is what I believe happened at this point. I still do not see it as vengeance. I see it as he leaned on someone in the thick of all of it who I believe was predatory and he made a lot of fucking bad decisions.
I considered CT's comment a lot, as she is a poster I respect immensely:
And he CHOSE to do it anyway. I find that to be reprehensible, so much worse than anything you ever did to him... because HE KNEW. He knew what it would do to you.
I think just like any other wayward, he didn't consider what it would do to me because he didn't care what it would do to me. His pain was more important, what he needed was more important. He minimized me the way I minimized him. And, yes, he did use my affair as entitlement.
In the reverse situation, I didn't care what it would do either. I told myself he wouldn't find out. I don't see how he could believe I wouldn't find out because of the proximity and role of this person.
So I do agree he banked on my understanding. He pretty much has said that much - he felt solace in that I would understand. He was entitled as the affair began for sure. So much of this part I knew inherently. Noone knows a cheater like another cheater.
Where I kind of go in a different direction is I don't think he is expecting my forgiveness. Part of me believes that he still wants a divorce but could not pull the trigger because of all the work I did. It's not hard to see that all WS are cowards.
What he says is that he felt it was helping him to get to where he needed to be and that he is clear he wants to be married to me. I know that's what he believes but I also know fully it's going to take a long time for him to untangle himself and have real clarity.
And, again, I haven't offered R. I have offered him time. I want the time too. While my affair isn't an excuse for his, it's intermingled. There is progress that we have made as a couple that is real. It will take me a lot of time to untangle the parts that were not.
He has not TT'd me that I am aware of yet, but again it's early and there is so much ahead. Until the last couple of days I haven't been able to sit with him long and I had been directing him away from going into certain areas of it. Mostly the sexual ones. A lot of my quizzing had been more trying to assess whether there is limerance because I didn't even want to keep talking if the AP was not going away. When he hesitated on firing her immediately is when he was kicked out to the camper. So, I have parameters.
I now have a good deal of details. We talked all evening into late in the night. It will be a harder disclosure to go about because the time frame is so vast in comparison to my experience. Honestly, I don't know if I am in shock or just jaded from years of reading these stories. There hasn't been much I didn't expect and in some ways I have imagined much worse. There were a few hits I wasn't expecting, and I am not ready to discuss them here. Nor do I know if I ever will be. I need some time with those. They are things I didn't see coming, and I expect they are going to be pretty big hurdles moving forward.
And along that vein, at this point we are not being intimate, and he is not sleeping in the bed. After all I learned last night, I am not sure when or if that will happen. It's just going to take some time and recovery to even know. I still hope we will want R, after all I have invested I think that is only natural.
[This message edited by hikingout at 8:46 AM, October 21st (Wednesday)]