HO, did he ever say to you, when reflecting on your betrayals, that because of it, he did not have a sense of accountability or responsibility for loyalty to you or the M? Did he ever intimate or suggest that because of the broken vows from your M, that he felt no obligation to those vows, as a result? Just curious if there were any verbal clues to potential future behaviors by him.
No. He is not taking it in that direction. He knows he mislead me. He knew at 10 months I was giving him the divorce with the terms he wanted on a silver platter, he could have followed through. Oddly, I am not sorry he didn't. I don't yet feel like everything has been a waste.
He is saying that for the last six months he just wanted to take it back and make her go away. There is consistency in that and what she was saying in the texts while he was driving. He claims to be very clear about what it is he wants. I just keep telling him time will tell me the truth about that so not to bother to lie and end up wasting more of our time. If he wants out, he can get out, I have made that clear. He just isn't getting the terms I originally said he could have. I burned the papers last night, we will have to start over if one of us decides to file. (I went a little nuts after talking to the OBS, that was worse maybe than finding out. Luckily I didn't burn anything else)
HO, I did the same thing in expecting my ex to handle the fallout just as I did. And well you know how that worked out. It was maddening for me because I just couldn't wrap my head around the fact that he couldn't give me what I gave him. I couldn't separate it, but let me say this, I didn't stand for less either. I wasn't expecting him to match it 100 percent but he needed to come close. Why? Because it is what every BS should receive.
I don't feel strong on a lot of things because I just really can't believe it half the time. But, him doing work is something I am comfortable with requiring and feel secure in. That aspect doesn't interfere with that piece of me that feels compassion for myself? I can
and do have compassion for someone who did something I did. I truly think I would have to question my own if it was not that way.
But, I can honestly say I have done everything I could in the aftermath. If he doesn't, then I think I can separate that compassion at that point. I don't know though, the next minute I just want it to go away and us be normal. I can sound very rational while I am typing this, but I have probably 12 personalities right now and they all argue with each other.
He told you (and us, for that matter) that he'd walk if you ever cheated or lied again, that he'd never stay through the aftermath of betrayal, that he was only in R because you'd learned the full toxicity of deceit. He wrote all that while actively cheating on you.
There is a duality here. My husband's coping mechanism has always been his stoic nature. I know that there is deceit there coming from someone who was doing the same thing. But, I think he had a self-loathing over that as well. Some of what he wrote I think was in conflict with himself.
And, I do think that when people compartmentalize, their authenticity goes in two different directions. I think much of what happened between us or what he wrote was authentic to him at the time. I think some of the progress we made as a couple was authentic. There are certain things you can't fake. We communicate better for example. However, it's hard to sort because a different example would be I have seen him try harder and compromise more. That one is tainted because I don't know if that was his heart or his guilt?
I can't tell you what I need, but thanks for asking. I know that writing helps me sort, and so I do that. I did it all this time to help me with myself. I am appreciative most that people identify with what I am saying with their own experience. That is very grounding to me.
My wife chose to have this experience with a faithful husband at home and an intact M. I did not have those circumstances in place when I chose to cheat. Neither did your H. I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm trying to save you from some misery. You're in for a rude awakening to think that you can discuss this without hearing about your transgression.
I never have said any of that. I have said that I know my affair precipitated his. That doesn't mean to me that I take the blame for his. But, I do think I have a different responsibility in some ways to him that he didn't have to me.
That to me doesn't mean I can't divorce him if I ultimately decided that for some reason. It doesn't mean he doesn't have to work on himself and get to a healthy place. It simply means that I can't come out of the gate with no compassion like this happened in the vacuum like it did when I had an affair.
My "added responsibility" to him is simply to not pretend that I don't understand. To at least come out of the gate with some compassion and give him some room to make it right. However, I will make it very clear to him, to you, or to anyone else - that's all I am giving him.
I also think I agree with keeping it separate. The only thing my affair has to do with his is it was the fuel. He still made the decisions. I brought up my affair all the time, he was given every opportunity to say anything he wanted at any time. He was given a killer divorce deal that he could have cashed in on at any time. He doesn't get a complete out on this, I am sorry.
But, I am going to give him ample opportunity to succeed, if ultimately that is what he wants to do. That's the part I do not trust right now. That he knows what he wants, or that he wants it for the right reasons. That's why I have to stay removed from it in some ways. What you have to understand is, yes, I broke his trust, and I broke our marriage first. BUT, he has now broken my trust which was intact before this all came to light. He broke his integrity too. He has to recover from that and heal, plus do all the healing he apparently didn't do to begin with. You can't just keep putting this all on me, Buck. I am not being rude or evil with him, I am not even angry with him yet. I am just sad - for both of us.
Bigger - I understand what you are telling me. I know you are right. I think this is going to be something to keep in mind moving forward, but I don't even know when that assessment can even begin. I want to be married to him as much as I wanted to be married to him a month ago. I feel like I learned a lot of how to be married through my journey and I really liked where we were with things. I can't think much past that at this point? All I can do is watch and wait.
Thank you Maise. You are right.
I guess that is where you were stuck. you H didn't deal with his post D-Day issues and only put on a front and got in over his head before he knew it. Maybe your H was done with the A and looking for an out and worried about the 'rabbit' (I was in the boat for a few months) but he sounds to be doing what I did for the months before D-Day and not accepting that there are issues with himself that need tending. I knew I needed help as things were not right, but I wasn't really accepting of my faults at the time.
Rings true. I think "over his head" is very much the way I am seeing it right now.
As a lot of waywards here who have done the work I think you will understand how painful it can be getting to that realization. It may be your H is not admitting all yet, because he hasn't taken the time to look in the mirror. I know I didn't realize the depths of what I did for some time after D-Day.
Me either. I know I am going to get a lot of scratch the surface stuff. In some ways I have it easier than he did - I was very limerant/foggy, and said all sorts of stupid shit. He is sparing me all that. In some ways I keep waiting for him to just say "I was wrong, I don't think I can get past this". I can't help but think that would be a relief despite my wishes to move forward.
[This message edited by hikingout at 1:17 PM, October 19th (Monday)]