Newest Member: loyaltylost

Just Found Out :
D-Day 3 I’m just ..I don’t know

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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 5:00 PM on Monday, October 26th, 2020

Just so you know, I am a huge champion of women. I would support an abused woman in any way I could. (In fact, I have.)

I am, in this case, wondering if she is appealing to your “Knight in shining armor” tendencies to get her out of this mess.

You know her better than all of us, but it is definitely something to keep in mind as you move forward.

I agree. I am also an advocate for abused women getting safe and clear. I am skeptical about the convenient timing of this, the framing, especially considered she decided to restart intimacy with a man she allegedly knew was toxic for her contrasted against being in the midst of already having a safe, loyal, loving marriage.

She threw you away to be with a man who abused her.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4390   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8602189
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 5:04 PM on Monday, October 26th, 2020

But she was physically conditioned to accept this, it was learned at a young age to accept.

I was 18 once. We all were. I was naive, but also at this age asked to work a lot and take on a lot of responsibilities - a few things stepping into the adult world on a monumental level.

She may have been a victim of abuse (or she could be spinning this narrative in her favor more because her life is a pattern of lies) but regardless, I think making her out to be a lost little child in the woods isn't helpful.

I'm not saying you were trying to do that, Buffer, I just want to add that note of caution for OP bc he has a bit of the Mr. Nice Guy thing going on (as many of us BH's do).

I do NOT think she was manipulated by the OM. This comes up over and over again on WW related threads, and it's just not true. Doesn't comport with reality. She was not manipulated. She made a series of deliberate choices, along with thousands of lies.

Every wise woman builds her house, but a foolish one tears it down with her own hands.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:08 AM, October 26th (Monday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4390   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8602193
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Jambomo ( member #74853) posted at 5:15 PM on Monday, October 26th, 2020

I think that whilst it is good to have had this letter and some insight into how her affair came about, it doesn't make a lot of difference to the subsequent affair.

She chose to have that affair long after she had cut ties with him, she still made that choice and I don't think any previous involvement with him justifies doing that.

In some ways this must only reinforce that she is a broken person who really needs to work on herself for quite a while before becoming a safe partner for any person.

[This message edited by Jambomo at 11:17 AM, October 26th (Monday)]

posts: 240   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020   ·   location: Scotland
id 8602201
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 5:33 PM on Monday, October 26th, 2020

I just thought of this: what about all of the women out in the world who experienced an abusive relationship, got free of it, and never exposed themselves to it again?

Isn’t your STBXWW kind of insulting these other women by claiming the AP is such a powerful Svengali she was helpless to his mesmerizing advances?

Something about your wife’s vague offhand narrative description about how this got kickstarted again seems very off.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:41 AM, October 26th (Monday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4390   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8602211
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beenthereinco ( member #56409) posted at 5:56 PM on Monday, October 26th, 2020

That revelation is one of the more surprising ones that I have seen in this forum and that is saying a lot. To find out that this OM that you have lived with as a part of your life for these three years has this long history with your WW and that everyone knew but you? Wow. That would be a tough one to swallow. I don't know how you recover from that or if you can. The level of deceit there is just so high. I'm sorry for how this has all gone. Take care of yourself.

posts: 1429   ·   registered: Dec. 13th, 2016
id 8602223
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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 8:58 PM on Monday, October 26th, 2020

Whether or not she is blame shifting or victimizing herself, I’ll leave to you guys to debate. I have to deal with what I know and there is enough detail in the letter to make me pause before coming to the conclusion she is blame shifting. Victimizing? Yeah to a point but if it’s all true, wouldn’t that be kind of hard not to explain things without sounding like a victim? Remember this is ten pages front and back on legal pad paper. It’s a lot. And I’ll need to read through a couple of more times and break it down before I can decide for myself or think of follow up questions to ask her.

longsadstory1952

Are you saying the scumbag bought her the phone? Then somehow communicated with her to send pics? And this went on for months?

How did she know to look for it if they weren’t meeting?

She has admitted that the Monday and Friday after the original DDay she spoke to him using a former co-workers phone. She stated the Friday call was him telling her he would leave the phone for her. They then went entirely ...virtual I guess is the way to say it.

RocketRaccoon

I totally understand the rage and the hurt, but would advise caution on this. If you intend to cut your WW off completely form your kids, then by all means, continue on with the part in bold.

If you think that your kids should still have a relationship with their mother, then it might be good to tone down the part in bold. I know both are 'adults', but it might still be worth considering the ramifications.

Apart from your MiL, what about the cousin that your WW confided in, was she also privy to this new material information?

This is her call. According to her she has hid and lied about too much. Obviously, there would be no details about the content. I will not stop her on this. She has lost her daughter already.

As for her couisin/best friend and whether or not she knew. I know the time STBXWW was living with him coincided with her being in the Navy. I am guessing she knew about the abusive relationship. I cannot fathom her not confiding in her cousin. I do know the cousin found out about the affair after DDay 1. I do not know if she is aware it was the same guy STBXXWW lived with when she was 18.

Ginny

Are you sure you can believe this entire letter? It is very convenient that she comes off as the victim here. It may be totally true, but perhaps you should be a little wary.

No.

steadychevy

I just caught up on your thread, SeeYa. It amazes me that when you think you have a unique situation, it isn't. There are similarities of my story to yours. My XWW's AP wasn't her first love or physically abusive or dominant in that way.

It was her history before we wed and how she never revealed most of it. There was a huge amount. Secrets make you sick.

Very true. Reading others' stories has been difficult, makes me angry, awful, uplifting, and makes me hopeful. It’s a roller coaster.

Westway

Your WW has some sort of Stockholm Syndrome going on. It would explain the way she allowed every boundary to fall in quick succession when he re-entered her life. Or, she never had any boundaries.

She is a seriously damaged person. I'm glad you are removing her from your life. Strength.

Wesway your story was one of the first I read on here. I identified with it after finding the old phone. I just thought my wife had a type like yours. But, I agree, it could very well be part of a deeper psychological issue.

longsadstory1952

Her situation kind of reminds me of the film The Night Porter.

Never heard of it. But you will forgive me if I choose not to watch it.

Thumos

This decision and the subsequent betrayal are part of a pattern of dishonesty in her life. She hasn’t been authentic with you the entire time you’ve been married.

There’s been a huge intimacy vacuum in your marriage you didn’t know about but it affected you in ways major and minor you’re only now beginning to see.

You know I received a PM from someone that asked me essentially if I thought that my checking out of the reconciliation about a year ago was my gut instinct. My answer was a little more crass than this but I could never understand the speed at which it progressed to sex. It made no sense. But now it does. I guess that was part of my issue a year ago. I bring that up because I firmly believe as time goes on I will look back and realize that little things that were off to me now make sense.

Thumos

I just thought of this: what about all of the women out in the world who experienced an abusive relationship, got free of it, and never exposed themselves to it again?

Isn’t your STBXWW kind of insulting these other women by claiming the AP is such a powerful Svengali she was helpless to his mesmerizing advances?

Something about your wife’s vague offhand narrative description about how this got kickstarted again seems very off.

I don’t think I’m qualified to juxtapose her situation to encompass others' tragic abuse and how they handled it. All I can say to this is she gave more details than I posted here and there was a more systematic approach to his interactions leading up to them having sex the first time in July 2017. None of which excuse her. I’m just saying that I could not include everything in my post. And because of that missing information I can see where you could come to that conclusion.

beenthereinco

That revelation is one of the more surprising ones that I have seen in this forum and that is saying a lot. To find out that this OM that you have lived with as a part of your life for these three years has this long history with your WW and that everyone knew but you? Wow. That would be a tough one to swallow. I don't know how you recover from that or if you can. The level of deceit there is just so high. I'm sorry for how this has all gone. Take care of yourself.

I was pointed to a thread by a former poster that found out his wife had a nine year long affair that only ended when the AP was killed. The BS found out years late. I can relate to that a lot.

Everyone has been great. I just wanted to say that. Whether you agree, disagree, or just plain out offer your strength up it helps a lot. You guys are a very important part of my support system. I have been told I come across as being very under control in a a high pressure situation but I think given my reaction to meeting the AP for the first time, that was not the case then nor is it now. I still lose a lot of sleep and if it was not for my desire to expand my cooking skills I would not be eating. I AM a mess. I am prone to fits of uncontrollable shame and yes even crying. They are better but they still happen. I am scared I will grow old alone. I'm a planner by nature but I never thought I would be fifty and alone without a significant other to share my home, my life, and yes my bed. I have no doubt I will overcome these feelings but right now they are right here in front of me and it takes a great deal of effort to see around them to a better life.

The support of my kids, my father, my friend Jerry, and even my lawyer who took time today to call me just to check on me, all are important. But nothing is greater than the support of those that have gone through this. It's a horrible club to be in and I hate you are here with me but I am glad to have each of you.

posts: 61   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2020
id 8602285
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KingofNothing ( member #71775) posted at 10:00 PM on Monday, October 26th, 2020

Her situation kind of reminds me of the film The Night Porter.

On TMC this month, actually, likely heavily edited.

Rex Nihilo, the King of Nothing
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“If you’re going through hell, keep going. Just please stop screaming, it’s not good for morale.”
— Winston Churchill

BS 3 DDays/Attempted R, it failed. In a better place

posts: 774   ·   registered: Oct. 7th, 2019   ·   location: East Coast USA
id 8602305
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longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 10:44 PM on Monday, October 26th, 2020

God man. Your last part of your post is heartbreaking. I keep pushing grief counselling on another poster. I guess I will add you to the list. There are people who specialize in helping people deal with the grief of loss. Think about it, will you?

posts: 1091   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2010
id 8602318
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ramius ( member #44750) posted at 10:55 PM on Monday, October 26th, 2020

She has lost her daughter already.

Sad. Maybe one day they can reconnect.

How many scars have you rationalized because you loved the person who was holding the knife?

Their actions reveal their intentions. Their words conceal them.

posts: 1609   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2014
id 8602327
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 11:18 PM on Monday, October 26th, 2020

I still lose a lot of sleep and if it was not for my desire to expand my cooking skills I would not be eating.

Great hobby and same here. I fully immersed myself into becoming a gourmet cook the past couple of years, weight lifting, photography and some other things. This makes you an interesting person and you’ll be surprised how many wonderful women are out there who appreciate you.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4390   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8602334
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steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 2:30 AM on Tuesday, October 27th, 2020

t/j: Thumos, my XWW brought the AP into my house the very first time there was an opportunity when there was none of our daughters living there and I was away at a conference. We had just put our middle daughter on a plane where she was going to do mission work partly with street kids in Romania on the Black Sea.

My XWW gave him directions on where to park so as to not have any connection with our house, how to recognize our house from the back alley where he had to walk to and where the back light was not on so no one would see. They had sex in my office space in the basement. He wasn't allowed to go upstairs or our bedroom because that would be too wrong.

This wasn't in the height of passion and eager passion. It was in the 3rd year of the LTA after having lots of sex other places.

Thumos, your mention of your WW bringing her AP to your house reminded me of that. It is a tremendous insult to me. The AP lived alone 20 miles away where she stopped on her way home from work frequently. He was 5 minutes from work. He had to drive in and then home again after late night sex so the neighbours wouldn't see. Deliberate action to soil out house, my office and where I walked for years after.

I understand how this could be a huge issue for you.

End t/j: Sorry.

BH(me)70; XWW 64; M 42 yrs
DDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14
LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW
"dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, lies
Separated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

posts: 4689   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 8602391
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rambler ( member #43747) posted at 3:24 AM on Tuesday, October 27th, 2020

OP,

Take mental health seriously. She was only 18 and three years of abuse would do a lot of damage. :

[This message edited by rambler at 9:25 PM, October 26th (Monday)]

making it through

posts: 1279   ·   registered: Jun. 17th, 2014   ·   location: Chicago
id 8602414
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Jambomo ( member #74853) posted at 6:27 AM on Tuesday, October 27th, 2020

I had a partner whom I was engaged to between the age of 19 - 23. He was controlling, abusive, gave me shit about what I wore and how I looked, wouldn’t let my family visit me. Total jerk. I came to my senses and went back to my parents house.

I’m only saying this now because if he were to come by here now, he’s be leaving with his testes tickling his rib-cage, I certainly would not be getting into an affair with him.

Abuse in her teenage years is awful and should certainly be believed. Yet she had left him behind for a good number of years (I can’t remember seeing how long it’s been exactly but op said some of the pictures were when she was 45) whatever they had then as gone, whatever hold he had is broken.

The fact of the abuse at 18 doesn’t give her an excuse or reason for her actions. To look at it that way ignores the many years of growing, experience and adulthood that she has had in between leaving him and choosing to have an affair. Like every other WW, she made an active choice to get into an affair with another man and she was at this point, adult enough (and knew him well enough) to know this was a bad idea and to choose to do otherwise.

posts: 240   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020   ·   location: Scotland
id 8602443
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Westway ( member #71747) posted at 2:53 PM on Tuesday, October 27th, 2020

Thumos

Wow. Thanks for the update. She aborted the baby of a man she later betrayed you with. Horrible.

I think the minute she decided she was not going to tell me about this prior relationship was the dumbest thing she ever did

This decision and the subsequent betrayal are part of a pattern of dishonesty in her life. She hasn’t been authentic with you the entire time you’ve been married.

There’s been a huge intimacy vacuum in your marriage you didn’t know about but it affected you in ways major and minor you’re only now beginning to see.

Yep... on top of being a broken cheater she is ultimately a fraud. She entered into marriage with him under fraudulent means.

Me: 52;

XWW: 50 y.o. serial cheater

Married 22 years, Together 24
2 Daughters: aged 16 and 20
DDay: 9/20/19
Divorced 12/03/20.

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8602509
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Westway ( member #71747) posted at 3:13 PM on Tuesday, October 27th, 2020

SeeYaIamOut

Everyone has been great. I just wanted to say that. Whether you agree, disagree, or just plain out offer your strength up it helps a lot. You guys are a very important part of my support system. I have been told I come across as being very under control in a a high pressure situation but I think given my reaction to meeting the AP for the first time, that was not the case then nor is it now. I still lose a lot of sleep and if it was not for my desire to expand my cooking skills I would not be eating. I AM a mess. I am prone to fits of uncontrollable shame and yes even crying. They are better but they still happen. I am scared I will grow old alone. I'm a planner by nature but I never thought I would be fifty and alone without a significant other to share my home, my life, and yes my bed. I have no doubt I will overcome these feelings but right now they are right here in front of me and it takes a great deal of effort to see around them to a better life.

The feelings of loneliness and despair you are experiencing are completely normal. Even after all these months I still give in to despair. I think you just have to let those emotions process through you. I find it's better not to try to suppress them. If you gotta cry then cry. If ya gotta scream, scream. The healing path is not a straight one. It doubles back on itself, wiggles around and goes in all directions.

Just know that slowly it does get better. Each day just gets a little bit better than the one before.

Me: 52;

XWW: 50 y.o. serial cheater

Married 22 years, Together 24
2 Daughters: aged 16 and 20
DDay: 9/20/19
Divorced 12/03/20.

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8602515
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siracha ( member #75132) posted at 3:30 PM on Tuesday, October 27th, 2020

Its very common for victims of sexual abuse to go through superficial hyper sexuality. Its not about their trying to have an orgasm its about trying to gain back all control that they have lost. In your wifes case it seems to me that she is obsessed about reliving her awful story but somehow changing the narrative changing the ending .

Im very sorry this happened to her i hope she has a therapist

However she was not honest with you, she had multiple opportunities to let you be a partner in her healing and instead she relegated you to being a pretend spouse and inflicted trauma on you for no reason . You can feel sorry for someone and also move on . Just focus your own feelings and your own health . Hopefully she will find clarity and health too but if she choses not to - its not on you

[This message edited by siracha at 11:32 AM, October 27th (Tuesday)]

posts: 538   ·   registered: Aug. 8th, 2020
id 8602526
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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 9:31 PM on Tuesday, October 27th, 2020

I forgot to mention with all that's been going on, Friday is my last day at this company. And frankly, I can't wait. As I stated in another post I have not been happy here for a while and the working from home has been the only thing to make it tolerable. Last week we negotiated my leaving as soon as possible (Yes I did play the "I am currently going through a divorce" card). In the end, they made it hard to walk away but I just could not stay where I was not happy. Plus I think it takes a bit of stress out of the the equation. I already have three small contract jobs lined up that will carry me financially through the new year and I feel good about future prospects.

Lawyer had no say so in it other than okay. I was leaving. Period.

posts: 61   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2020
id 8602699
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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 9:57 PM on Tuesday, October 27th, 2020

Congrats on being able to chart a new course career wise. You earned and serve it.

posts: 2452   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8602711
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Kaliber ( member #74046) posted at 11:39 PM on Tuesday, October 27th, 2020

SeeYaIamOut:

I already have three small contract jobs lined up that will carry me financially through the new year and I feel good about future prospects.

That's how you do it brother!

Congrats!

[This message edited by Kaliber at 5:39 PM, October 27th (Tuesday)]

You don't have a choice of being a victim, but you always have a choice of remaining one!

posts: 145   ·   registered: Mar. 13th, 2020   ·   location: Germany
id 8602735
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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 12:04 AM on Wednesday, October 28th, 2020

Well one door closes another chapter opens.

When it is time to go, it is that time. Good luck with the new short term contracts.

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 12:15 AM, October 28th (Wednesday)]

Buffer

posts: 1207   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8602738
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