Newest Member: Loyalandbetrayed

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Am I over-reacting??

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Apparition ( Member #75755) posted at 1:08 PM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

Though I am barely beginning my journey after my wife's infidelity, I can say with a "reasonable person" standard that your wife is lying and cheating. You should prepare yourself for eventual disclosure. How you go about getting the truth or if you will ever get the truth, I do not know. But don't allow yourself to be gaslit, believe in your own rational thought. You know what makes sense and you know what does not make sense. You've walked this earth and see how people behave and what people are capable. In other words, you have to trust yourself right now, you cannot trust your WW. The facts you've witnessed so far provide overwhelming evidence that your wife has been keeping secrets. Secrets are affairs.

I'm sorry you are here, please keep your head up, put your chest out, and believe in yourself. Trust YOU.

Me: BH
Her: WW (expert serial cheater)
Status: Divorcing

posts: 220   ·   registered: Oct. 28th, 2020
id 8608153
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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 1:13 PM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

I completely agree w Bigger.

What you should be saying now is “you are having an affair. Whether it’s purely emotional or physical too does not matter. You can be his side piece or my wife, not both. If you are my wife, you WILL be leaving this job and never having contact of any kind with him ever again. If you are his side piece then I will be leaving you and this marriage.”

I have said this often here that I would immediately drop from my life ANYONE who made my wife the least bit uncomfortable. She is the most important person in my world and no ones happiness matters to me more than hers.

If your wife cannot do the same then she does not have the marriage and you as her husband as the top priority in her life right now. Let her go be with the piece of shit that she now views as the top priority to her.

If she cannot drop him and the job willingly and without anger, then you have little hope of having a happy and fulfilling relationship with her.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:04 AM, November 12th (Thursday)]

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3163   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8608155
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BigNoob ( Member #75807) posted at 6:04 PM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

I think a PI would be useless in this case. Your wife already told you she dropped off some "paper work" *cough panties* for an hour and then had a 2 hour "professional" massage at a hotel. Was any other coworker with your wife during the massage?

I think only thing that could ease your mind in a Poly. SG was in same situation as you were his wife was banging her boss and they would only talk about the affair at work.

You already have all the proof you need with what her coworkers said. If you live in a no fault state then what is the point if you have proof. Your wife has ZERO boundaries. I would have filed when she was flirting with another man in front of me, the disrespect. You have only been married 1 year so you can maybe get an annulment.

I also highly disagree with how much time you are giving her. The greatest commoditiy in life that is often ignored is TIME you are giving her until Feb. so roughly 4 months plus another 3 months-12 months for divorce which may take longer due to covid you are not getting any younger.

Right now your wife is stuck in the fog her boss may as well be the devil in real life but she is viewing him as prince charming. He is a rich guy paying attention to a middle class house wife. Feeding her ego kibbles. You already went through a divorce one time so you know the rodeo. You are in love with the person who she used to be before marriage not this person you arw currently seeing. I would do 18, sleep in different bedrooms just to mentally prepare yourself. If she is leaving you to babysit her kid then she can go find a babysitter.

[This message edited by BigNoob at 12:38 AM, November 13th (Friday)]

posts: 207   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2020
id 8608287
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Dignitas ( Member #75678) posted at 9:16 PM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

I have known her for 8 years and nothing has ever lead to this. This is completely out of character of her. She never would have done this, unless she had been manipulated by her boss. I think with the pandemic and the long hours of working it has worn her down. I am not making excuses for her or rationalising to make myself feel better.

Yes, you are. That is precisely what you're doing. She's a grown woman. Stop infantilizing her. She made vows; she broke them. Her boss doesn't owe you a damn thing, she does.

[This message edited by Dignitas at 3:17 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]

posts: 76   ·   registered: Oct. 17th, 2020
id 8608399
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Buffer ( Member #71664) posted at 2:46 AM on Friday, November 13th, 2020

Brother out of curiosity and as she out of the country with the boss or just by herself?

I see fire and smell smoke. The PI is a good way to go.

Great plan to get those ducks in a row. Be prepared for the worst case scenario about her and him. Even the co workers know.

One day at a time and start the 180 now. Just you and the children. Ok?

One day at a time.

Buffer

posts: 1191   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
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BigNoob ( Member #75807) posted at 6:49 AM on Friday, November 13th, 2020

1.

"She is a religious person and we do bible studies each evening. Maybe it is a mask to keep me from further suspecting."

Brother do NOT count on religion I was at DePaul University (one of the biggest catholic universities in the USA) and some of the biggest cheaters/fuckbois/Ho's were from conservative catholic families. The universitiey main pastors son was a cheater. Senior year I had a female roommate she was a serial cheater and she attends church every Sunday.

My teammate on track was the son of a church bishop and he also cheated on his GF of 8 years. He attended church every SUNDAY. They can pray all they want but does not change a persons morals!

2. "based on conversations with him, he has admitted to cheating on his wife several times, though I'm unsure if it is with mine."

3 hours alone with a predator. Your wife is like the sheep and she jumped into the wolfs den.

3. ". We have a good life, great sex and a son (from her previous marriage)."

What happened to her previous marriage why divorce? So you are babysitting her son while she drinks/ flirts with her boss. Spends the night at a cheaters house? Was his wife at the house when she spent the night?

4. "And that he would prefer she keep this quiet that he was at the hotel and he would like to keep that to himself why he was there."

Have you talked to his wife? If not you need to hop on it.

5. "I'll give her until feb to realise and if things continue then F'her and im done and ill leave her in a worse case than she realises."

I still think it is to much time you are giving her. You are spending all those months with her then if you file for divorce it could take a few months to a year depending on where you live.

You already gave a cross hook when you took of her ring. Now it is time for a jab by doing the 180. Then for the K.O. punch when you serve her with a divorce papers (you can always stop with divorce proceedings)

[This message edited by BigNoob at 7:23 AM, November 13th (Friday)]

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Buster123 ( Member #65551) posted at 5:20 PM on Friday, November 13th, 2020

The wife was not in country at the time and had come back a fee weeks after.

How do you know this ? Did your WW tell you ? her boss ? if so you need to VERIFY this with her, but based on what you have described this is at least an EA (very likely a PA), your WW saw you take her wedding ring off her finger in front of everyone when you asked her to leave the place, she STAYED there with the boss, she was "flirting" with him right in front of you, talk about being disrespectful, I agree with others that you shouldn't wait till Feb to take action and put your foot down.

posts: 2408   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8608793
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NorCalLost ( Member #63815) posted at 5:35 PM on Friday, November 13th, 2020

We are both experienced professionals with good careers and are both good looking.

I second, third and FOURTH everything everyone else is telling you. But I'm pasting your quote above, because you seem to find it to be an absolute impossibility that your wife could be cheating on you with someone who is far less attractive than you.

Affairs ultimately have very little to do with your physical attributes or those of the AP.

Maybe your wife was just excited by her AP's position as her boss, who knows. My XWH used to tell me that I got better looking with each passing year - until the day he left me for someone who I would never have pictured as his type.

So don't pin all your hopes on the fact that your wife's boss may not be as attractive as you. Looks have very little to do with many affairs.

[This message edited by NorCalLost at 11:36 AM, November 13th (Friday)]

DDay 4/23/18. Second WH. Second divorce.

posts: 356   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2018   ·   location: from Northern California
id 8608800
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Apparition ( Member #75755) posted at 10:15 PM on Friday, November 13th, 2020

You are clearly very intelligent and love your wife. Your image of your wife is clouding your judgement - I understand, I’m going through this exact challenge. Please trust yourself. Look at her behavior compared to what you read about affairs. Boss/hierarchy affairs are extremely common and the looks of the male boss are not a key component for this type of attraction. You seem to be doing very well, keep taking care of yourself.

Me: BH
Her: WW (expert serial cheater)
Status: Divorcing

posts: 220   ·   registered: Oct. 28th, 2020
id 8608920
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 1:28 AM on Saturday, November 14th, 2020

Right now, there are threads here on the first page of the JFO forum from men questioning if their wives are having an affair or not. You can see on those threads and on nearly ALL threads where men have that question that I tread very carefully. I am extremely reluctant to call out infidelity unless there is enough evidence to convince me. If you cared to look up my advice on comparable posts, you will see I am consistent on that: I want to be convinced before I call out infidelity.

On my very first post on your situation I stated.

Based on what you share then yes. There are more red flags than you normally see in a Chinese parade. None of us can tell you with 100% conviction she’s cheating, but if your description was a weather report, I would be wearing rain-gear and preparing for the storm.

Friend – it is POURING! The hurricane has hit!

Based purely on what you share I am convinced your wife and the boss are having an affair.

So, the co-workers confirm they think something is going on. I take it none said so directly. Well… remember what I shared about human behavior and the reluctance to be the bearer of bad news? If they did not have suspicions or only light suspicion, they wouldn’t share that there is something going on. It’s like when someone doesn’t want to tell you they know there is an affair going on, but suggest you look carefully at your wife’s behavior or say that they THINK something is going on… They are telling you in a way where they avoid being the direct bearers of bad news.

The wife was not in country at the time and had come back a few weeks after.

Wait a minute… So, the night your wife staid at his house his wife was not there?

The boss that lives close enough to you so you can see when he came home?

That is the second KNOWN instance of unaccounted time. The hotel and now the night at the boss house. There was a sliver of doubt about the night at his house due to the wife being there, but if she wasn’t in the country… well…

I was also questioning the logic behind renting a hotel room to do work. Having spent a good part of my life on the road I know even good business hotels don’t offer quality office-accommodations in the rooms. A usable desk and chair – nothing fancy but usable for an hour’s work. The boss had so many other better options for privacy IMHO. Probably including working from home. Only his wife is in the country… Could you confirm that the boss wife was in the country when boss was at the hotel-room?

Everything is plausible… MAYBE WW slept on the couch, MAYBE OM rented the hotel for work, MAYBE WW took a 2-hour massage mid-workday. But I think there is enough here to have that smoking gun, shell casings and the victim – namely you.

Can I ask what it is you are waiting for? What changes in February?

What is it you WANT? If infidelity is a total deal-breaker for you then IMHO you have enough. It’s not as if from now to February she will come clean or you will get more than you already have. If your plan is to simply leave, you have enough already. It’s better to plan that leaving in the open IMHO.

If you want a shot at saving the marriage… A 100% non-negotiable part is that the affair be over. Without confrontation and ACTIONS that won’t happen.

My suggestion:

First phone OM wife. Ask her if her husband has told her that your wife spent the night there. Don’t mention infidelity directly – in fact repeat what your WW said about the couch. Then ask her if she knew her husband had rented a hotel room “for work” and your WW has admitted to spending at least an hour in that room. You know she spent 3 in the hotel. See what her reaction will be.

Stop asking if she has had an affair. Simply state you KNOW.

Let her know that until and unless she tells you she wants the marriage you are simply assuming she has chosen the infidelity, and you don’t share your wife. She’s free to be with him as much as she wants but not as your wife. That you will imitate the steps towards terminating the marriage and if possible, you two can find a way to be amicable until that process is over.

[This message edited by Bigger at 7:36 PM, November 13th (Friday)]

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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 usaskiteam (original poster New Member #75562) posted at 11:35 AM on Monday, November 16th, 2020

I appreciate everyones thoughts and suggestions. To clear the questions. His wife had come back a couple weeks after mine had spent the night. Yes, i am pretty damn certain there is cheating involved. Ido see your point of my love clouding my thoughts.

To give you context to why I am waiting until february. I have some investment property I have purchased overseas and will need until February to clear that and have it set up for revenue generation. This property happens to be in the country she is from, so that is why i am sticking it out until then. Though, I am seeing a lawyer next week to discuss the legal implications of going through divorce outside the US. So the wheels are in motion and i will have the movers come over this week to inspect the house to see how much it will cost to move my stuff. So all my ducks are in a row. I will also hire a PI to get some hard evidence. Then on the last day or two i am in country, I'l speak to the OM wife give her some of the hard evidence. Then send the copies of the hard evidence to their HR department, which will have both of them fired.

Unsure why she is doing this, the sex WAS great. We got along well. It is just baffling she is so short sighted and knowing that there is no future with this guy. Just disappointing. Though, i am looking after myself. Eating right, doing well in my career and working out 1hr a day, getting noticed by others my working out is doing well.

I am also seeing a counselor, who thinks she is a narcissist and isn't sure what else i can do and thinks that this may be a lost cause. Will keep you updated and again appreciate your support and insights, as always. Never thought I would be in this situation, just blindsided over the last 6 months..hahaha

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2020
id 8609532
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 usaskiteam (original poster New Member #75562) posted at 11:48 AM on Monday, November 16th, 2020

And another reason to wait until Feb, im playing the long game here. Ive already written her off in my head so her cheating isn't bothering me like it used to. I have hired an executive career coach to aid me in my job search in the US, since I have been working overseas for a decade. This longer timeline will allow me enough time to hopefully line something up. With COVID going on it makes sense to play this longer game and not go back right now unless there is an opportunity available sooner. crossing fingers....just feel bad for her son, because we have grown close over the last almost a decade.

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2020
id 8609534
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 11:57 AM on Monday, November 16th, 2020

Could you outline your plan or what you want?

Are you 100% determined to divorce? That OK – for many infidelity is a total dealbreaker and if you want to divorce then that’s fine.

Does infidelity impact divorce in your country? If not then why the PI?

If you have some hope of reconciling, then I do not see any advantage whatsoever in allowing the affair to carry on. Frankly then nor do I see any advantage to your personal overall health (physical and mental) to hide your knowledge and play happy husband for a couple of months.

I’m 99% certain the divorce will follow procedure in the country you reside in. Do you plan on doing the divorce across borders? It’s not an issue of signing the papers in the morning and grabbing a flight in the afternoon. Divorce is a process and takes time and IMHO you would probably be best served being close to the process during the initial steps. It can be to your disadvantage and slow the whole process down if you are not on-site to answer for your cause. But that’s why you consult an attorney, to better understand what lies ahead.

Be careful regarding the investment property. Be very clear on the laws regarding marital property and what is in the pot when it comes to dividing assets.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 9858   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8609536
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 usaskiteam (original poster New Member #75562) posted at 12:42 PM on Monday, November 16th, 2020

Thanks for the response. I'm seeing the lawyer to understand next steps and legal arena here. Though, I did call her out in front of her department when they had drinks a few weeks ago. She was drinking and acting flirty with the boss and her coworkers were amazed I could stomach it. So I got up and whispered in her ear, that we need to go home. She refused, so I asked her again and when it was rejected, I took her wedding ring off and offered it to the boss. This essentially called them out and embarressed them.

I think they have cooled down, cause I hardly ever see him with her now when I pick her up or at the apartments. So maybe there is a reconciliation that could happen, but time will tell. I'm not going to pull the divorce trigger until I know she is totally gone. Just want to make sure my ducks are in a row. As a note, since we were married we have note really combined anything financial. Given our working abroad it makes it harder to do that given various country limitations. Which maybe a good thing given the situation.

posts: 19   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2020
id 8609542
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 4:37 PM on Monday, November 16th, 2020

The absolute worst advice offered on SI is legal advice.

Generally – in most states, much of Europe and probably most of the world – it doesn’t matter how you or if you mingle your finances after signing a marriage contract. It’s still marital property.

In other words: You and WW could marry and live totally separate financial lives. You two reach an agreement where you pay the utilities, she pays groceries… you invest in property – she invests in shoes and purses… When you file, she’s entitled to the equivalent of half your property. It’s because of this that you need legal advice. IMHO the only sensible reason not to confront right away – IF you are committed to divorce – would be to arrange finances to your advantage.

Irrespective of reconciliation or divorce I would ALWAYS suggest you know your rights when divorcing. Divorce is a real possibility from this scenario.

I do want to warn about one thing:

Simply the affair being over is NOT the way to reconcile. It is not enough that your WW and OM do not have sex from now until February. It’s not enough that they might have decided to “cool things down” for now. Leaving it this way is like leaving a fire while there are still embers. It can relight at any moment. Your WW and OM might realize things are heating up, decide to end their affair, then on the next budgeting meeting when they are the last people in the room there is a question, a slight touch, a look… and all of a sudden she’s spending yet another hour at a hotel and two at a massage…

If your WW and OM end their sexual affair (and I am assuming this is a full-fledged sexual affair based on the two instances of alone-time) then all that ends is their sexual affair. For a marriage to become whole then EVERYTHING – EVERYTHING needs to be in the clear. No secrets. Minimal risk of a restart.

IF you want to reconcile then you still need to confront her. She needs to admit to the affair and give you the detail and timeline YOU need. She will need to leave her job – at a minimum she and OM can never work together. (Is he the boss as in owner or boss as in manager for an owner?). All stakeholders need to know (OMW).

Basically confrontation is where you say something along these lines:

“Honey. I KNOW you are having an affair with OM. No – don’t deny it. I KNOW. I have realized that losing you is not the worst outcome of your decision to be in infidelity. What is infinitely worse is remaining in infidelity and SHARING you. I do not share my wife.

I am simply assuming you are continuing in infidelity. You are totally free to be with OM, spend time with OM, date OM or any other man you want. Only not as my wife.

I am starting the process of both emotionally and legally terminating this marriage. It takes time, there is a legal process we must abide by that ensures it’s about as fair as possible. I am placing the legal aspect in the hands of an attorney since I am too emotionally attached to do it myself.

If you want this marriage you need to tell me so in a clear, unequivocal way. Remember that if you do then it’s because YOU want to. I might take that into consideration and then evaluate your actions to decide if I think this marriage is salvageable. I would need certain things like total honesty, the complete truth and a commitment to total enforceable no-contact with OM. Your actions will tell me if this marriage has a chance or is even worth saving.”

And then you go make a sandwich and watch a game. There isn’t really anything more to discuss. She wants to talk about “issues”: No dear. There is no need to talk about that since you are committed to your affair. If we were working on the marriage then we could address that issue, but fidelity is not negotiable.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 9858   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
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Buster123 ( Member #65551) posted at 6:45 PM on Monday, November 16th, 2020

I think they have cooled down, cause I hardly ever see him with her now when I pick her up or at the apartments. So maybe there is a reconciliation that could happen, but time will tell. I'm not going to pull the divorce trigger until I know she is totally gone. Just want to make sure my ducks are in a row.

So for you R is still in the cards, well for it to have a chance at success, you first MUST need to make sure the A is OVER, not "think" it's over but VERIFY it's over and for that you need to confront her (preferably with strong evidence) and she would need to commit to doing the necessary hard work to help restore the M she destroyed with her huge betrayal, NC FOREVER is paramount, I still don't see the advantage of waiting till Feb to take action, As don't typically end just because of suspicion, one of them needs to quit the job, if you can't control OM then your WW will have to do it if she wants to save the M, the laws regarding marital property most likely won't change between now and Feb, so if D is ultimately the end result, financially wise assets division will most likely be the same now and then, but you could save a couple of months of this horrible situation and start the new year with a fresh and clearer picture of your future.

posts: 2408   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8609656
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BigNoob ( Member #75807) posted at 5:15 AM on Tuesday, November 17th, 2020

As long as she is still working with AP have the mentality that she is cheating on you. They have so many places during work to keep the PA going.

1. His office.

2. Her office.

3. The bathroom.

4. Any unused room.

5. His car.

6. Anywhere at her job basically.

A very good reason a lot of BS ask WS to change jobs after an affair

posts: 207   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2020
id 8609835
Topic is Sleeping.
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