How many therapists have you studied? This is a vast over-generalization.
A shitload. How about you?
There appears to be a philosophy in the therapy industry which focuses so much on "how someone feels" and does whatever it can to "not judge", with the therapist never saying to their paying client: "You need to stop what you are doing right now and come clean on your behavior."
Which allows people who go around hurting other people while focusing on what they feel, without focusing on what they actually do.
Anyway, feel free to have your opinion, I have seen therapists advise cheaters in ways that encourage more hurt to the betrayed spouse over and over, and you can see it every day in this forum and others.
I let my warning stand, and it seems that our betrayed spouse has already seen what I am describing firsthand.
I have no plan to thread jack this discussion with further argument past this post, but if you want to present some actual empirical evidence to the contrary, as you always ask for from other people but never seem to provide yourself, feel free to do so.
I've yet to come across a WS who feels good about themself.
Well I have come across a bunch. Firsthand. Or at least they don't seem to feel particularly bad about their behavior.
True. But consider this: how can an IC verify what the client says, especially if the client holds tight to a lie?
Again, that is one of my main points. If she doesn't want to tell the truth, therapy is useless. The therapist cannot help a liar.
But, also many therapists reinforce obvious lies, bullshit and rationalizations. The same ones the cheaters try to sell to the betrayed spouse.
The usual, it was only one time, we wore a condom, we went to the hotel just to talk, etc.
Therapist: "Yes, I believe you, now let's get to your "whys". What was it about your marriage that made you seek out another person? Or did you cheat because your parents yelled at you when you got bad grades?"
IOW, the IC pretty much has no choice but to believe the client.
Definitely not true.
A good IC confronts a lot and asks questions that can reveal answers that show the client is deluding himself,
A therapist trying to convince someone who has made a way of life of lying to themselves and others by utilizing pointed questions in order for "delusions to dawn upon he or she" is an initiative with a very low success rate.
Such a strategy will take a length of time that I would not advise most people to wait for.
but the IC has no way of verifying that the client is truthful.
True in some case, but not in others. How about in this case, the therapist says, "Are you providing the whole picture? Maybe we should talk to your husband?"
You know what I call that? An "ex-therapist".
A polygraph can't help, because the truth is nuanced, and the test is not. You can't even use a question like 'Are you telling the truth to the IC' because the vast majority of people don't tell the full truth.
Disagree. A polygraph can't help? how about this question:
"Have you had more relationships with men outside of your marriage than what you have admitted to me?"
Cheating is usually not that nuanced. Isn't that what we are discussing?
A person who attacks himself with self-talk will not be a good partner. A person who nurture himself won't seek external validation, which is the basis of many As (and plays a part, probably, in all As).
Disagree. I have done many wrong things in my life, and my "negative self-talk" is what helped me decide who I want to be.
Negative internal talk can be a very good mechanism for recognizing when you do something wrong, like touching a hot stove: "I just went to a hotel and cheated on my wife, only a scumbag would do that, what the fuck is wrong with me? This has to end now!"
You know what really hurts? People who bullshit themselves that what they are doing is okay, or good, when it is obviously bad. Who tell themselves they are not hurting the people they are supposed to protect.
If you are engaged in an extramarital affair, you SHOULD BE having negative talks with yourself, not having some external party telling you how good you are while you hurt your family and risk their health.
Some therapists misunderstand the concept, and they hurt their clients, but many therapist do help.
Like I have said, therapy is a crapshoot as far as the therapist, but it doesn't matter at all if the person seeking therapy is not doing so with a clear heart and the intent to be honest.
And therapists need repeat business and are not higher quality people than everyone else who exists, so you add that all up and what it really comes down to is the person has to want to truly look inside themselves and change.
And that is pretty rare too, that's why they make movies about that kind of stuff.
[This message edited by faithfulman at 11:58 AM, September 17th (Thursday)]