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New Beginning...or another ending?

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Freedom2013 posted 9/1/2020 09:40 AM

I have been a lurker on this forum since 2014 and have always benefited from the advice given. It's finally my turn to post.
I met the most amazing guy on August 19th. A dinner together where we couldn't stop laughing. Such good company and just a great person overall.
This was finally someone I could imagine a future with (after many years of dates that went nowhere) and I know that he felt the same way.
After a weekend together at the lake he come home very excited to tell his best friend about me/us. That was Sunday night. Yesterday he picked me up for a coffee during the workday, as he has done many times over the last two weeks.
It turns out that I went on a POF date with his oldest and best friend back in 2017 which ended in the friend and I fooling around back at his place. The friend shared details with my guy that I don't recall in the same way, but I didn't dispute them.
My guy (GT) acknowledges that I did nothing wrong - it was 3 years ago, we both have a past etc. however, he is really struggling with whether this can work for us as a result.
I told him that I really like him. I have no issue with the friend (or nothing that I would share with GT. I actually think the friend behaved poorly).
I said that he needs to sort out his feelings and that I hoped we could move forward from this; it would be a shame to let something so good end because of something that happened long before we ever met. We last messaged around 4 yesterday and I am leaving him to make his decision.
What do you all think? Guys, would this be a dealbreaker for you? Is waiting like this the right thing to do?

[This message edited by Freedom2013 at 7:53 AM, September 17th (Thursday)]

devotedman posted 9/1/2020 10:59 AM

When I was 16 is started dating a girl. We ended it but remained friends. My best friend started dating same girl a month or two later and every time girl and I saw each other my friend did not handle it especially well.

Note that girl and I liked each other, but not romantically. While I'm an only child I imagine it was something like a brother/sister relationship.

If I were to trade places with your boyfriend here's what I -think- that I'd go through:
1) a bit of BF has "been there, done that" with GF (you). This isn't fair, but feelings aren't especially fair.
2) The realization that 1 (above) isn't fair. This would cause me some level of cognitive dissonance, where mind and feelings don't match, and I'd probably be a bit grouchy and irritable about the subject until I got the two in line.
3) I (personally) would want GF to discuss how she perceived my BF (best friend). I know a guy that I thought was a great guy, my best friend in college. But his behavior to women was very different than his behavior with me. My now-xWW and I discussed it, and at the time she said that as a woman she found him off-putting. Another female friend I asked called him an octopus. So, I think that you give him 24 hrs, then either text or call and offer to discuss how -you- perceived friend (behaved poorly to women), how you felt about that, and how uninteresting he was. I'd also want to hear that you found me a whole lot more attractive than you found him.

Take all this as you will and with a grain of salt since I haven't been in exactly the same position. College BF and I did 'compete' for now-xWW and I 'won'.

JanaGreen posted 9/1/2020 11:23 AM

I'd also want to hear that you found me a whole lot more attractive than you found him.

This is key!!!!!

BobPar posted 9/1/2020 11:40 AM

I think a direct approach of,

"hey, I feel some distance... what are your thoughts? Does it have something to do with "X"?"

would be something you can ask sooner rather than later.

It seems you did that. If you feel like touching base after having given it some time, do what you feel works you. I wouldn't want to be in limbo and would start dating if the lines of communication didn't open up within the week.

[This message edited by BobPar at 11:48 AM, September 1st, 2020 (Tuesday)]

Freedom2013 posted 9/1/2020 11:48 AM

Thank you all for your feedback. I really appreciated the reminder to let him know that he's leaps and bounds better in every way. Truly, the experience with the friend in 2017 was quickly put on the error in judgement pile. I was new to dating and he was a player.
If I don't hear from my guy tonight I will reach out tomorrow. Better to know its done than to sit and wonder.

devotedman posted 9/1/2020 12:14 PM

The friend shared details with my guy that I don't recall in the same way, but I didn't dispute them.

If you talk, then dispute the details. Say that men and women perceive things differently, and that studies have shown that guys rate give themselves a higher approval rating with women than women give them.

You don't have to call his BF a liar, but you should set the record straight.

Also, tell him that where his friend is concerned his friend is a putz to women.

Freedom2013 posted 9/1/2020 12:55 PM

at the risk of tmi...I am pretty clear that I will fool around with a guy. But actual "sex" on night one isn't for me. And that's how I remember it. And it's also why I assumed I never heard from the friend again. But if the friend has already told my guy that it happened, what's really the point of disputing it? Especially as there was alcohol involved. BTW - I'm 47. Was 43 at the time. I am totally responsible for my own actions.

devotedman posted 9/1/2020 13:10 PM

I considered it a given that you're responsible for your decisions, but I did not read (or remember reading) that alcohol was involved. That makes a difference.

You might consider saying that you don't recall it that way, your call.

Personally, that's why I don't get drunk around a woman until we've soberly consented prior, if that isn't too vague nor too tmi. Too many things can go wrong.

Good luck, sincerely.

JanaGreen posted 9/1/2020 13:10 PM

Kinda shitty of his friend to spill details, accurate or not.

AnnieOakley posted 9/1/2020 13:27 PM

His friend sounds like a player as you described and an ass for not being tactful with details.

Having said that if friend did not put 2+2 together and you did at some point, amazing guy would deserve to know the basic details. Especially if there was the potential of sex.

Yes we are all adults and all have a history, but I just prefer to know if Iím in the same vicinity with someone my partner has slept with. I donít need details but I have understood female friend, only to find out she was a FRIEND w BENEFITS years earlier on/off when they would both be single.

[This message edited by AnnieOakley at 1:30 PM, September 1st (Tuesday)]

NeverTwice posted 9/1/2020 14:52 PM

So - I am confused. Did you have sex with the guy or not? 'Fooling around' could mean anything. It could include a BJ or HJ.

So, given that, did you have sex with the guy???

Thanks!

Freedom2013 posted 9/1/2020 15:41 PM

Did I have sex with him? No. I would remember if we had sex on the first date. We were upstairs in his room. Partially naked. Definitely oral. So really, it's semantics right? How does one define sex. And is there really any need to clarify for my guy. I don't want to ruin his friendship with this long-time-like-a brother friend.

[This message edited by Freedom2013 at 3:54 PM, September 1st (Tuesday)]

Buster123 posted 9/1/2020 17:59 PM

I suggest that you keep looking, if it was just an acquaintance that would be a lot different, but this is his best friend (like a brother) we're talking about, this could cause problems and jealousy issues and mind movies for him down the line.

If you insist you want to see where this goes, I would first sit him down and face this head on (IMHO too much drama to start a relationship) and ask him. Make no mistake about it, you HAD sex with his friend, was it PIV ? well you mentioned alcohol was involved and it sounds you don't remember all the details, but honestly, if you remember being "partially naked" admit to "oral" what are the odds the rest didn't happen ? Oral sex, it's still sex, so do not dispute that at this point unless he asks specifically, I don't think the Bill Clinton defense would work in this case either.

Booyah posted 9/2/2020 05:00 AM

If it were me I would not not to start a relationship with a woman that a friend of mine had been with. If they had just gone on a date that would be one thing, but you said you were naked with him and you gave him a BJ.

Yes we all have a past but to have a woman to have a past with one of my good friends (and in this case best friend)......just not going there.

Not a matter of right or wrong but just me. Too many other women out there.

Okokok posted 9/2/2020 06:33 AM

First of all, of course you did nothing wrong and there is nothing shameful or bad here. That's obvious.

What do you all think? Guys, would this be a dealbreaker for you? Is waiting like this the right thing to do?

I consider myself a pretty average dude with a Western-culture background in respect to this sort of thing, though I do have the infidelity experiences in my past that likely muck things up a bit.

For me - ostensibly average dude - there are three ways that mind movies and jealousy would become insurmountable and pretty much ruin chances in a relationship with any partner. They are:

1) Infidelity (duh)

2) Partner has sexual contact with ANYONE after I've already fallen in love with them/had a relationship with them (possible exception: we part on amicable terms, reunite way down the road, and the other guy is no longer in their/our life, and I just don't have to think about or see him ever)

3) Partner has slept with a good friend or relative of mine in the past (unfortunately, this would be magnified tenfold if said friend gave me details about this; that really stinks and is not cool)

~

I'm sorry. Everyone truly has a past, and I think for the most part not only does it not matter, it can honestly be (dare I say?) a fun and interesting thing to talk about and process with our partners. But some things are just tough to handle.

I'm guessing if you polled enough folks, you'd find a wide spectrum of what they can handle in situations like this, and for some this wouldn't be an issue.

In your case, based on how you've described your guy's reaction/processing, it sounds like an issue for him. I'd be super concerned that it's something that would lay below the surface and never really go away especially if he continues to be good friends with this other guy. I tend to agree with Buster123.

Ugh, sucks.

Still, if you do hope to proceed and think you see a path forward, definitely let him know how freaking amazing he is.

Hutch posted 9/2/2020 06:53 AM

I'm not sure I will give the best advice. I just wanted to lend a supporting hand. This is clearly one of those "What are the odds?" moments in time. What are the odds of you meeting and making a connection with a wonderful man only to find out he's friends with someone you spent time with, albeit a short moment in time, but none the less time with him.

I have to admit that even from a woman's perspective I think that would be difficult for me to process and possibly overcome as well. It almost feels similar to the realm of someone who cheats with a friend in that someone else that you know has intimate details about the person you care about. I think it's just a difficult mountain to climb.

Now in saying that, there are lots of people who are able and I hope he is one of them. It sounds like you made an amazing connection and you are both wanting to explore and move forward. I hope he can work it out in his own mind and heart.

Word of advice, I would make it clear about the details. Do not let his friend paint a picture in his mind that is not accurate as those details can be the very thing that is giving him struggles. Give him the truth from what your experience was. From there he can determine what is best for him.

Best of luck. This new dating world is difficult and very lonely at times for sure.

Freedom2013 posted 9/2/2020 08:49 AM

Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback, I do appreciate it. I have yet to hear from him so I am preparing myself for the worst. He is such an amazing guy and we had the best time together. Time flew by and we just laughed. He was so thoughtful and considerate and actually listened to me and did things that showed that he cared. He really set the standard for men and he really deserves the best.

I would love it if he would give this a chance, but I will thank him for his time and walk away if that's not the case.

I would like to tell him that his friend was an event that I have tried to forget. After our night together I realized I forgot my fitbit at his place - I called to pick it up. He invited me in and we sat on his couch. Next think I knew his pants were undone and he was ...use your imagination here. I sat there in shock. This was pre #metoo, and honestly I was too polite to do anything other than sit. When he finished, I left. I have tried since then to forget this ever happened. But even with this, I could set it aside and never mention it should we choose to pursue a relationship. My guy is not responsible for his friends behavior, nor does he likely even know.

Anyway, if he's chosen his friendship over our new relationship, I understand. I am devastated as this is the connection I have been looking for and he is everything I could want in a man.

I guess time will tell.
Thanks all for your support and feedback and for putting me in my place about what constitutes sex. I'm beating myself up at losing someone great based on an event I have tried very hard to forget.

Freedom2013 posted 9/2/2020 08:51 AM

Thank you all for your thoughts and feedback, I do appreciate it. I have yet to hear from him so I am preparing myself for the worst. He is such an amazing guy and we had the best time together. Time flew by and we just laughed. He was so thoughtful and considerate and actually listened to me and did things that showed that he cared. He really set the standard for men and he really deserves the best.

I would love it if he would give this a chance, but I will thank him for his time and walk away if that's not the case.

I would like to tell him that his friend was an event that I have tried to forget. After our night together I realized I forgot my fitbit at his place - I called to pick it up. He invited me in and we sat on his couch. Next think I knew his pants were undone and he was ...use your imagination here. I sat there in shock. This was pre #metoo, and honestly I was too polite to do anything other than sit. When he finished, I left. I have tried since then to forget this ever happened. But even with this, I could set it aside and never mention it should we choose to pursue a relationship. My guy is not responsible for his friends behavior, nor does he likely even know.

Anyway, if he's chosen his friendship over our new relationship, I understand. I am devastated as this is the connection I have been looking for and he is everything I could want in a man.

I guess time will tell.
Thanks all for your support and feedback and for putting me in my place about what constitutes sex. I'm beating myself up at losing someone great based on an event I have tried very hard to forget.

Okokok posted 9/2/2020 09:17 AM

I would like to tell him that his friend was an event that I have tried to forget. After our night together I realized I forgot my fitbit at his place - I called to pick it up. He invited me in and we sat on his couch. Next think I knew his pants were undone and he was ...use your imagination here. I sat there in shock. This was pre #metoo, and honestly I was too polite to do anything other than sit. When he finished, I left. I have tried since then to forget this ever happened. But even with this, I could set it aside and never mention it should we choose to pursue a relationship. My guy is not responsible for his friends behavior, nor does he likely even know.

Only you know all the ins and outs of the dynamic here, and only you can really make a good choice about what you do and don't disclose, and only you really have a sense about what the after-effects of that disclosure could be.

From everything I've read in your story here, if I were this guy, the scenario you've described with his friend would absolutely be relevant to me and would make everything feel very different in my head and much easier to process and move on from (though I'd probably also have to stop being friends with the guy). Just something for you to ponder.

That said, there is no rule that you have to disclose this at all or put yourself in any situation that makes you uncomfortable for anyone else's benefit.

This friend sounds like a real gem.

[This message edited by Okokok at 9:43 AM, September 2nd (Wednesday)]

Freedom2013 posted 9/2/2020 10:13 AM

I haven't heard from him, so I am guessing his decision is made and he just hasn't communicated it. I was going to text him and say:

We met two weeks again and it was magic. I just want to tell you I miss you.

Thoughts?

Even if it's over, it's still true. And he can reach out and put me out of the misery of not knowing.

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