SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

GTS - I don't mind that you disagree with me and the dialogue here is just to help you see things from a different angle.

I'm just add this in hopes that maybe you can again see things slightly different then you have been.

There is this saying that everyone's heard of before, and the intent is a good one, but its not exactly the best way to go about things. The saying goes something like this:

"Treat others like the way you want to be treated". Nothing wrong with this, as we all want to be treated well, and respected right.

Well, although that is mostly true, there is a better way to look at this. The better way of addressing this would be:

"Treat others the way they want to be treated"

Why is this? Its b/c we are all different. Do we all want to be respected? hell Yes! But what does respect mean to me, vs you. Now looking at your situation with the exGF. She should have not cheated, she should have addressed you formally and broken it off differently yes. But your handling of attempts to contact her after she broke this off, hoping she would change her mind, accosting he at the beach, and even approaching her and her new BF and friends at the table is in your mind okay, and the right course of action for you. What I think a lot of folks on here are trying to tell you is that, that may not be right or the correct course of action to your exGF or her new BF. That is not how she wants to be treated, or simply, she doesnt want contact anymore from you. You may disagree, and that is perfectly fine, but in return, you would and should agree that she is also able to disagree with your actions after the breakup. That is all I'm trying to say.

You think you're right, and the way you handled this was in your mind absolute. But what about her feelings and thoughts about this situation? She should also be entitled to her own actions and feelings about contact no? And since you now had multiple instances where you've either contacted her, or seen her, and approached her without her ever doing that same thing for you, doesnt that show you that her wish is to put the past in the past and moved on?

No one said you had to leave the restaurant or the table you were seated at first. Yes they saw you, and you can damn well guarantee that her BF texted her before she got to the restaurant that "hey GTS is here in a table close to us". Im certainly her told you ex. She didn't come up to you and say hello. She didn't come by and introduce her new man to you and your friend. Why? Its b/c she doesn't want to engage. That is her right, just like your right is to act in the way that you see as up and up, and doing the right thing. But after a certain point, when do you stop this engagement GTS? 1 yr, 2 yr, when you get a new GF? I think that's all everyone is trying to tell you. WOuld be different if you broke up amicably, but that is not the case. She cheated right? She probably feels some guilt right? She doesnt want to face it right? So even if you think that you are being morally just, it is still not what she wants. And I think its keeping you in a worst place than you need to be. Cut her out, ghost her, and pretend she doesnt exist. Based on her actions, that is how she would like to be treated. You keep saying that your actions aren't wrong, and we would all agree. But there is a difference between wrong and unwanted. And unwanted is what I think you need to pay more attention to.

Also, think about it from the BF's point of view and those of his friends. I'm sure they weren't thrilled with you approaching their table either. Don't give them anymore ammunition. You said you don't live in a big town. They will talk, and you have no idea what they will say. Maybe you exGF and her new BF didn't let their friends know the circumstances for how they got together. In fact, I'm sure they didnt tell people. Fuck em. Move on.

Very fair points HalfTime2017. I tremendously appreciate your post. And I see your point. Thank you.

GTS, I reread your thread here. If I may, I'd like to give you some insights on some things that I had struggled with myself. This can also be considered my advice to my younger self too.

>>Our job is to get ourselves out of infidelity. It is to get ourselves out of a bad relationship. As to what happens next, she is not our responsibility and we are not her responsibility. As far as her dealing with negative consequences for how she treated us, it is not on us to drive The Karma Bus.

If you still feel raw and angry over the breakup, that is absolutely normal. Likewise for struggling with the fact that she is the one who cheated--and yet she gets to move on to a seemingly happy new relationship. And keep your mutual friends--while here you are being cut out by all of them and stuck still feeling sad. It's quite understandable if you are still wishing that at least she'd express remorse for how she treated you and give you an explanation and a heart-felt apology for what happened.

BUT, you are already out of the bad relationship with her. The mission is already accomplished. She isn't your responsibility anymore. And you aren't her responsibility anymore either. And everything that happened with your breakup and the aftermath is pretty much par for the course. That she doesn't want to engage with you, well she wasn't your friend when she broke up with you with no explanation so why would she be your friend now. And that everyone in your ex-gf's circle is deciding that they have to pick sides and that they are on her team and thus not on yours, that is also typical. This, even though you're a great guy and her new boyfriend may suck and she also has her issues and may have cheated. (And yes they can see the timeline from when she was with you to how she is now with her new boyfriend so they have a sense for what really happened whether she told them or not.)

I do think many of us men who were betrayed have this fantasy that our wayward exes will be subject to "justice" which includes her apologizing profusely to us while she loses all mutual friends, but that is not reality. And, as we don't get to drive the Karma Bus it is not our in our boundaries either.

And...at the end of the day, relationships are voluntary. Either both parties want to be in the relationship or their isn't one. Your ex had the right to break off being your girlfriend for whatever reason--and not stick around to help pick up the pieces. Moreover, her family and your mutual friends reserve the right to stay in her tribe and cut you off--even if she was the one who was 'totally in the wrong'. Just as you had the right to break off being her boyfriend if you saw fit to do so.

Meanwhile, going up to talk to her whenever you find yourself in the same room, isn't "taking the high road". The high road is to peacefully let each of you be from now on. I think most people who go up and say hi in a situation such as this are trying to keep some sort of relationship going, even if the 'relationship' isn't anything more than just a thread. Either that or they are subtly trying to make the other party feel guilty-- 'see what a classy guy I am you dumped me harshly and here I am still saying hi to you and your new bf'. But either way it isn't self-respecting, and it isn't really noble. You are no longer her responsibility, she is no longer yours, it is not on you to get her to feel guilt for her actions. And, how is any interaction with her serving *you*? Realize that your ex-gf does not deserve any sort of attention from you, and that you likely dodged a bullet.

Anyways GTS, I hope this isn't taken as more piling on. I can see a lot of my past self in this thread, and I am thinking of what I wish someone had told me then, looking back at it now.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:44 AM, Tuesday, August 31st]

WontBeFooledAgain, thank you. I didn’t take your comments as piling on at all. And I think you make terrific points. I guess it’s really tough to think that this woman was supposed to be my forever after, after my exWW cheated and divorced me, and now she pretends like she doesn’t even know me. I’ve never experienced anything like that before in my 46 years alive.

The only part of your comments I’d like to correct is that she’s not taking our MUTUAL friends. She’s going after MY a friends that I have known for decades and only met her because she dated me. She’s only successfully stolen my best friend of 36 years, but he went willingly.

No problem man anything I can do to help.

Your old "best friend" doesn't sound like much of a friend at all to me frankly. In fact both he and your ex both sound like back-stabbers. For example, you calling the ex-gf's brother-in-law and then your "best-friend" somehow finds this out and berates you over text for that. Why is it any of his business and whose side is he on anyway? And why was there a need for anyone in her circle to broadcast your call to all these other people anyway?

An even more profound example was that of your ex texting your "friend" after you found her on the beach. Was he there to berate you or support you? And...why did she even bother texting your friend in the first place? After 2.5 years couldn't she have given you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't a crazy stalker, and have treated you w a bit more respect?

Anyways yeah, I think we all can relate to that feeling of your stomach dropping out when you happen to see your ex after all these months just across the bar, and maybe also not knowing what the hell to do. It's a universal experience I think. But next time you also have every right to get yourself outta there if that is what you want to do. And moving forward it is far more self-respecting thing for you to just ignore her. Spend your energy on your real friends, the hell w her!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:27 PM, January 7th (Thursday)]

Thanks WontBeFooledAgain. I agree completely. I found it super weird that she was involving my friend, and even more weird that he willingly stayed involved.

I think you're ok. I make social faux pas all the time. I think I'm being helpful or friendly. There are all these rules and I'm not savvy. Cest la vie.

Good on you saying hello. Now you don't need to feel awkward any more. I would have wanted an explanation too for the breakup. Ghosting, defriending, etc.....so stupid. That's why I never made any social media accounts. Don't like the gossip and games. Plus a lot of it is lookat me lookat me lookat me.

Even when I have blown it big time I always was willing to discuss it.

Sorry about your friend. My best friend wandered off too. It took years and years to be at peace. Like a sister she was. Got a new faith and I didn't fit in with her new tribe anymore.

That's free will isn't it? I hate watching people go. What I learned is that people come in. The people we need come in a d teach us what we need to learn. If you don't learn, the same people come until you learn at last. I needed to learn self confidence and to be strong. I was tested and tested. I needed to learn to put myself first more. Such struggle.

You could have been so angry and rude but you weren't. It was crap how she acted. She should be glad you didn't embarrass her. Yet nobody cares now and everyone would have said that's the nutty ex if you said she behaved badly and lined up another guy behind your back then acted like a child when you asked nicely for an explantation.

Apparently we're all supposed to pretend like the person who dumps us is invisible for the greater good these days. It sucks.

I hope someone great is coming your way. You deserve it. Somebody so amazing everyone can say wow he's the luckiest man alive. You won't have to look at your ex then, your new lady will shine like a queen and the ex can sit in the shadow of her brilliance. So dark a shadow you will barely notice her.

Keep your caring heart open. You've got a lot of love to give. Try to remember the good she taught you and be thankful for that.

GTS, I read your story and commiserate with you. Your BF and the girl treated you like shit.

Did you ever find out if they hooked up around that time? Did you ever ask BF point blank?

Thank you pureheartkit and Aeriopolis. No, I didn’t find out if they hooked up, but considering my “best friend” still isn’t taking with me even after exGF has been posting photos of her and the new guy all over social media, it’s the only explanation that makes sense. If he was only “hoping” to have a shot, he’d realize she’s now taken. But if he sealed the deal, that would explain the fact that he’s still not in my corner.

GTS, I will share w you one more thing that really helped me.

When someone breaks up w you that coldly, they are actually giving you a GIFT. She has shown you who she is, and as she ran away herself she even saved you the trouble of breaking up with her. Instead of giving you the respect of an explanation, she did something even MORE valuable for you--she showed you in no uncertain terms that she is not the person whom you should be missing. Good riddance!

Onward and upward!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:56 PM, January 10th (Sunday)]

WontBeFooledAgain,

Yes, you are absolutely correct. But man, I just wish she wasn’t that person. I so badly wanted her to be better than that. I thought she was better than that. After what we’ve all been through with infidelity in our marriages, we want to think there’s someone better for us out there. Someone who makes all the hurt from our divorces worth going through. I thought she was that person for me, and for at least 2 out of the 2-1/2 years we dated, I think she was pretty damn close to being that person. But in the end, she wasn’t, and I think that’s what hurts - the idea that I allowed myself to drop my walls, trust again, and fall in love again, only to have her be so calculating and cruel.

So, I'm trying to focus on my healing. Reading books, hanging out with friends, riding my bike on new trails, lifting weights, boxing, setting goals, and in IC.

I still think about my exGF - not in a sense where I want her back, because I can't go back to a cheater. But in a nostalgic sense where I miss what I thought we had (though it never really existed). And, in an angry sense where I can't believe she did what she did and how she so easily discarded me. And in a "dodged a huge bullet" sense, in that my plan was to propose to her last year and probably buy a house an move in together this year before her lease ran out in June. And in a "how the heck do I prevent this from happening again" sense.

I know intellectually, there will be a better woman out there for me. And that the fact that I didn't propose to her in 2-1/2 years was my subconscious protecting me from what would likely be many challenging years dealing with her kids. But right now it hurts to have lost the comfort of that relationship, and it hurts to lose my "best friend", although I don't believe I caused either of those losses to happen.

My healing is coming in waves. There are times when I feel good and almost feel like I did before the breakup, and then there are times that I feel sad and really down. There are times that I wish things could just go back to how they were in early August. And there are times when I wish I could fast forward to be fully healed.

I wonder if my "best friend" did something irreparable? I think he must have, or he would have been able to talk to me the day at the sports bar, or he would have been able to reach out to me by now. It's really sad because I could use his friendship right now. I've always been there for him, and he had always been there for me in the past. My birthday is coming up next month, and I doubt I'll even hear from him, and even if I do, it won't be authentic - similar to how he reached out about my having Covid: "feeling better now?".

I don't know why I care, but I guess I'm wired to value friendships and relationships very highly. Even though he betrayed me, or at least abandoned me in favor of her, I still miss his friendship.

I know I'm rambling right now, but I don't know where else to share my feelings. I know there are so many good people on this forum who usually have good advice. And, I know that the ugly 4-letter word "TIME" is probably all that is going to help at this point. I just want to stop hurting.

I doubt I'll even hear from him, and even if I do, it won't be authentic

Don't put the cart before the horse! Just wait it out and see; if he reaches out to you, you'll have to decide if you want this friendship to continue.

Until then plan something fabulous with friends for your birthday!

Thanks newlife03. I know you've been tough on me on this thread, but I appreciate your authenticity and kind comments below. This breakup has really shaken me because I just didn't expect it, especially after the divorce and infidelity. And, losing my best friend has been really difficult, as I would want to lean on him right now. I'm thankful for this community, because most of my other friends in real life can't relate to any of this.

It's been 5-1/2 months since the breakup, and a little over 3 months since I've discovered what really happened (she was cheating). I feel like I should be over the hurt by now, but I'm really not. I think it's because the hurt is compounded by the abandonment feelings stirred up from my divorce plus the loss of my best friend. But I just want to feel normal again. I thought that by 2021 I would, and then 3 days into the new year BAM! I end up seeing my exGF and her new guy together in the flesh. Things can only get better.

It’s all still pretty new to you, so it’s understandable that you are feeling like this - especially with losing your BF as well along the way.

I guess if I were you, I’d see myself as you would a BS on the Just Found Out area - go with a hard 180, try to move on with new and better people who actually support you. Get out there when you can and meet new people. Neither the ex nor the friend deserve your headspace or your friendship - stop trying to be nice to them, they are not nice people and do not deserve it.

I really, really appreciate this site and the advice I have received here over the past year and a half. I am in such a better place than I believed I could be because I have learned from others and listened even when I didn't necessarily agree with what I was hearing.

This thread is tough for me, and I'm honestly considering leaving the site because of it. The 19 pages of whining, argument, and refusal to even consider opinions that are anything other than supportive and encouraging the OPs behavior is frustrating.

My WS is honestly plagued by the exact same refusal to consider any uncomfortable opinions and complete lack of empathy that I am reading. I know that the OP may be the betrayed person in this scenario (which only seems like a possible theory at this point), but that is completely irrelevant to what is going on here.

Relationships end and people treat others improperly. We have to learn to live with that and grow and adapt our lives to what happens around us. It is unfortunate that people mistreat people, but once a relationship is severed, then no-one owes anyone anything. We don't have to like it, we have to continue to be respectful and empathetic to others.

Again, I appreciate all of the wisdom and sound advice (from both sides) that I have received and read on this message board. But I can tell you that I don't believe that the next 20 pages of this thread are going to help the OP in any way. If someone is unwilling to listen or consider alternative viewpoints (whether it is the BS or the WS), then there is honestly no likelihood of success or growth.

flipflopflamingo I understand your POV.

Again, I appreciate all of the wisdom and sound advice (from both sides) that I have received and read on this message board. But I can tell you that I don't believe that the next 20 pages of this thread are going to help the OP in any way. If someone is unwilling to listen or consider alternative viewpoints (whether it is the BS or the WS), then there is honestly no likelihood of success or growth.

When I post responses it's for 2 reasons - 1, I hope that I'm offering some sort of help to an OP and 2 if the OP discounts it then maybe it will help someone else.

And truthfully none of us REALLY knows the ins and outs of anyone's life so even if it sounds crazy on our end it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The biggest lesson I've learned in my betrayal has been that I'm perfectly OK on my own. If someone wants to work THAT hard to fool me then it's not a "me" thing it's a "them" thing. I will never lower myself to being treated like that again and I'm perfectly fine with cutting people off if they don't make me feel safe.

Thanks Jambomo, twicefooled, and FlipFlopFlamingo.

FlipFlop, I appreciate your comments, but you appear to be a tad harsh. I don't think that I have dismissed all other advice except what I believe. At first, I was adamant that there was no infidelity, when plenty of other suggested that there was. I thought I needed to date, while some encouraged it and others warned against it. In the end, it turned out that I wasn't ready. I don't have the smoking gun that there was cheating here, like I did in my marriage, but all of the signs point to cheating. And, regardless of whether there was cheating or not, there was certainly an unfair and abrupt abandonment without any explanation. As you said, life isn't fair, and she doesn't owe me anything, but that isn't the person she showed me she was for 2-1/2 years. This section of the forum is not necessarily about cheating - it's about new beginnings (relationships) after you have recovered from your relationship that had infidelity. I came here for support, and I received a ton of it. Some I agreed with, and some I did not agree with. But that doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the support. Nobody is forcing you to read my post or post on my post if it upsets you so much. I came here because I'm hurting quite a bit, and I really need the support of the community here.

And, regardless of what happened with the exGF that I dated for 2-1/2 years, I'm more hurt by the betrayal of my best friend of 36 years. The fact that he too has abandoned me with hardly any explanation and has continued to support and communicate with my exGF is really difficult for me. If you can easily move on from that type of betrayal, then I salute you. I'm not that strong of a person, which is why I'm here for the support. That doesn't mean that I am obligated to follow every bit of advice I'm given. It also doesn't mean that I ignore the advice I disagree with. I'm human. I make mistakes.

What advice have I not taken that I should take now? Should I continue to not date indefinitely? At what point is it OK to date? Should I pretend to not know her when I'm at the same place as she is? I don't understand the rationale behind that? I didn't create a scene, act rudely, raise my voice, or try to have a conversation - I just politely said hello. That's who I am. When my exWW's OM (now husband) introduced himself to me at an event for my daughter 2 years ago, was that wrong of him? I was uncomfortable and didn't welcome it, but he did it anyway, and frankly I don't think he was wrong for doing it - and I didn't have any relationship with him.

What should I do about my "best friend"? Whether or not he cheated with her (I think he probably did), he hasn't acted like a friend in any capacity since the breakup. Hasn't called or text to ask how I'm doing. Hasn't "liked" or commented on any social media posts of mine, when he used to all the time. Couldn't even say hello to me when we sat at the same table watching football a couple months ago. And he's continuously been abrasive to me when I've tried to extend an olive branch multiple times.

I'm coming here to vent, and to seek advice and comfort. And, I do appreciate ALL of the advice I've been given, including yours.

You didn't just "say hello" to her. You introduced yourself to the guy she was with. You introduced yourself to the friends that he had with him (at the same time you are complaining about her talking to your friends). If you don't see a difference in an acknowledgement of her presence via head nod or wave, and approaching and introducing yourself to everyone at a table with someone that has asked you to cease contact, then I'm not sure what to say.

If your long-term friendship is injured by him not "liking" your Facebook page, then it was never as strong as you expected. I thought I read that he did acknowledge you when watching football, but that what he said wasn't sufficient for you. He has texted you, but he didn't write the proper thing or ask the correct questions. You can reach out to him "like a man" which you seem really proud of, or you can sit back and wait on him to come repair the relationship. There is venting and whining, and there is seeking advice.

Maybe this should be in the separation forum. All you are discussing is your separation and how terrible everything is. I don't see a new beginning here...

FlipFlopFlamingo,

Thank you for your comments. I'm sure they are intended to be helpful, and I will take them that way.