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They both decided to end the A when OBS confronted them in early May

This is a very typical statement from any WS when found out. They were just going to end it which is 99.9% cow dung.

More likely the covid19 situation played a bigger part in breaking up the cheating lovebirds as they did not have frequent accessibility to each other as they did prior to the lockdowns.

She said that he used enhancing drugs and condoms.

Another typical statement is that they used protection, the number of times they had intercourse would most surely have resulted in a few cases if not all sexapades sans condom.

The sex wasn’t any special.

Another typical statement that the sex wasn't special. Except she admitted she did orgasm every time so something must have clicked & pushed the right buttons.

MC is for a troubled M and ones where the couple hope to repair what's troubling in the M. You're WW is the only one on the R page you are still undecided. She knows her options are limited now that POSOM is out of the picture so you'll do nicely. She needs IC to find out why she did what she did and what she needs to do. For me once they go outside of the M and fuck some other person then the love the profess to the BS after the A is outed is based more on the self preservation side.

The amount of betrayal in your case and the frequency of it would be a M ending meteorite for me as there would be no coming back from that. My opinion your WW is in full on preservation mode, hoping against hope that you agree to R so she is telling you just enough to disgust you but not enough so you walk. You can count on it if her & her sex buddy money bags ganged up to emasculate you as per the HVAC incident then they most likely had done so previously.

By the sounds of it this was not the POSOM's first rodeo and for your WW to come home after making derogatory & emasculating statements about you with her AP is an extra special FU to you personally.

You could have easily contracted a STD even if they did wear protection.

sending her gifts which actually started the EA for her

When a woman excepts gift and money for sex I am sure there is a name for that.

The above is my interpretation of your sitch. I am cynical of any WS and as such my conclusions can be viewed as biased against WS's and they are. Everyone has a different take on your situation we only hope we can help you navigate through our own experiences.

Sending strength my man

[This message edited by notanotherchance at 2:52 PM, September 9th (Wednesday)]

if I’m willing to be patient with her he promised she will exceed the expectation, he even said that she was ahead of the curve comparing to other cheating spouses that he dealt with and he has dealt with many.

This is pure bullshit. How can he promise that just seeing her cry for only few weeks?

He gave me statistics of cheating in our society which is scary, he said he understands why I can’t trust that she wouldn’t cheat again and I have the right to leave her and move on but he said that will apply to any woman I would consider in the future.

But look at the other side, if you divorce her, you will not be reminded of her adultery every single waking/dreaming moment the rest of your life. And not becoming a marriage police. A man can always hope for better. You might find a better partner than this one.

he said how can I be sure that they won’t cheat on me. He said the probability of my WW cheating again is close to 0%

You don’t know if your next partner will cheat on you or not. But this is life.

How does he know that she won’t cheat again? Because she said so? And you have to believe her??? WTF!!!

He said he knows my WW very well and knows her flaws and if she follows with the right therapy she will be a woman any man would love to have as a partner, not just a loyal partner but also the most loving and that will be a shame if I miss on that opportunity.

No. He doesn’t know her that well. Otherwise he would have warned you earlier about the possibility of her side business.

And by the way, you will not be losing anything special, just a CHEATING WIFE. And if she goes into current market, everyone would stay away from her if they learn her history. And history has a tendency to repeat itself.

That it ALL depends on me if I want to save my marriage and if I choose to forgive to work toward healing and regaining the trust

This is kind of guilt trapping. She already destroyed the marriage. Now you are the BAD GUY for not forgiving her. You might forgive but that doesn’t mean you have to be married to her.

He said that it won't be easy, and wouldn't suggest it to every case, but neither is divorcing and leaving her.

He is right about that.

Wow Holy F'in Wow!!! I am so so very sorry....

I have nothing else to bring to this horror story except this...

My wife was sexually harassed by a trainer at the gym she used to go to, she complained, and he got fired. She never told me but told her boyfriend at the time, to make her safe he started sending his personal trainer who is also a friend of his to work with my ww.

You were done! She looked to him for her protection, when a woman does that...she is done with you. Period.

That phone call in the car was her trying to figure out if what he was telling her was the truth. Was he going to leave his wife and were they going to run away together. She exploded on him when he told her about Jenny? the side piece. You do not have an accurate timeline and you never will, but do you need one now...only you can answer that.

I'm sorry for your pain. IMO it's stuff you needed to know in order to make a decision to R or D that you can be comfortable with.

1 - Is my understanding correct, that she intentionally omitted you from the tattoo (exited the marriage in her mind) prior to meeting the OM?

I recall you told her to keep the tattoo because it had nothing to do with the affair. A misunderstanding she should have corrected on the spot.

2 - Your wife knows the difference between IC and MC but has pushed for MC. Why?

I'm concerned that when you two get into MC that she will reveal that she's not completely satisfied with 'you'.

For example, you need to change (work less, be more romantic, pay her more attention or change your grooming) in a way that implies that if you were more like the OM and/or had changed 6 years ago then the affair would not have happened (i.e., blaming you).

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 3:00 PM, September 9th (Wednesday)]

Its pretty clear from your WW's timeline that she put herself first for a number of yrs. She was in it to win it for herself and her kids. You were the provider, you provided her with a life, and her sons with an easy paycheck. She was contemplating leaving you and you were plan B.

You were left out of the tattoo, that was no omission by error, at that point in her life were on her way out. There was no room for you, and your purpose at that time was back up. Things in her mind were looking up, she was in a fantasy relationship, with a Rich guy to boot. If he had left his wife/BS, you'd have to ask yourself if you would be here today, or would you be hard charging down the D train bc she filed against you.

Some where along the lines, things didn't work out with the AP, she caught glimpses of him cheating on her with Jenny, or in general a douche. She is now all in on you and your marriage. I do believe your WW that she has worked her way back to you, your family and the marriage. She is not totally there yet, but she is trying.

I think the hardest part of that shit sandwich has to be that this woman planned on ditching you. You were plan B, until she realized that her other ideas and plans weren't the best, and that trying back with you would be her best way forward. The sex, I would say does it really matter if its 10 times or 20? Its done. The emotional affair, the part of her willingly choosing another man, and trying to find a better life for herself without you, that is the toughest part, not to diminish the sex or number of times. I think you just have to look at the situation as a whole and see if that's something you can live with. You have a wife who is now trying, but can you live with her, and what she has done to you and your family. Or are you better off starting new with someone else. There are no promises either way, both can cheat on you at any moment, or both can be the best of partners going forward, but only one has a SHIT stain that cannot be erased.

HT

AHguy, that experience was soul-crushing and I am so sorry you had to go through it.

You are a very strong person and you will get through this.

***

That timeline was brutal. Also, I promise you, as other have said above. she is still lying, minimizing, and omitting (The second 2 are just types of lies.).

And she did not lie, omit, and minimize to spare your feelings. I hope by now you see that your feelings are not really on her radar.

***

I understand it is difficult to keep hearing such raw things, but everything about this is "raw". There is nothing nice about it.

Once every month or two my ass! I think you know that no man, particularly a dishonorable man like the sleazy cheater, is putting all that money and effort in unless his investment is paying off big time.

I don't think you really need to know any more, unless you feel you need to. It's hard to know what is "enough".

But you better believe if you scheduled a polygraph a lot more horribleness would spill.

Lots of talk of religion, remorse, where she is on the "Wayward curve" etc.

I don't do religion, and I don't think any of that other stuff is important until you can know the following, and I understand you have said that you don't know the answer.

The true question is: Can you resume a happy and fulfilling life with this woman after what you know how she has betrayed you?

One more thing.

Your wife didn't tell you about being sexually harassed at her gym because if she did once you knew that you'd more than likely go up to the gym to address this and more than likely would FIND OUT ABOUT HER AFFAIR given she had a trainer there who was being paid by POSOM!!!

She was covering her ASS!!!

AH, just one last though from me tonight.

Remember she lied to your face for at least 24 months without you suspecting a thing. Not one lie, but lies upon lies designed to benefit her selfish self.

If you ask her a question now and the answer does not paint her in a bad light, how can you be sure this proven liar is not telling you another lie designed to benefit her selfish self?

Again, the caveat that I always think with my cold dead heart and I think the worst as far as matters relating to infidelity is concerned. Thus you can use or dismiss the content of this comment based on that caveat.

Strength to you on this path you have to travel and please try to get some rest this evening, even if you have to do so with the aid of a sleeping-tablet.

HA

Sorry for my previous post, i was assuming a lot!! Just got triggered.

I think in a nut Shell, what I think you should concider, and ask her, whath would had happened if the A never was discovered, when your youngets leave your home. Would she leave you for OM? The answer must Not be done considering what she feels/thinks right now. The answer must be answered with her thoughs and feelings early this year, when she was so reckless that even her sister noticed. This may be the corner Stone for R or D, verifyed by Poly or course.

R or D is your choise, not ours. No Matter what we said.

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 3:40 PM, September 9th (Wednesday)]

The tattoo is proof you meant NOTHING to her at that point, she had checked out, her offer to NOW include you on it after it being kissed by POSOM every single time they had sex is mindblowing, it tells you she does NOT even have a clue about what you're really feeling about her huge betrayal. She should at least have removed/covered the tattoo as soon as the A ended, but then again there's a reason why we call them "Wayward".

I agree with Thumos and others that the suggestion by pastor that had MC happened years before the A would not have taken place is a form of blameshifting, I'm sure SHE told the pastor that she had insisted on it, just like she told you when you first confronted her.

Make sure you go through the rest of the timeline and ask questions about it, stop if you need to but go ahead and finish the job, I also agree with others (and you) that the timeline is not detailed and of course incomplete. Another thing is that your WW did not care the entire office knew about her A, make no mistake about it, if POSOM was sending flowers every week and going to company events together, you can safely assume that pretty much the ENTIRE office knew about it and I hope you didn't participate in any of them.

I also agree that her not telling you about the sexual harassment at the gym was because in her mind it was her boyfriend who needed to protect her, plus she didn't want to get you involved and risk being found out.

She claims this was the only A, make sure you ask about any ONS and or makeout sessions with anybody else (sometimes people don't consider them As), this question should be included in the polygraph.

She claims this was the only A, make sure you ask about any ONS and or makeout sessions with anybody else (sometimes people don't consider them As), this question should be included in the polygraph.

Or given what you now know you just cut your losses and move on. A polygraph is a great idea for getting the truth. If you need the truth for closure as you move forward with D, then by all means. If you think there's a chance you'll R (and I can't imagine R in this case, with what you now know) then do the polygraph. But what you now know is more than enough -- and far too much.

I have been careful to avoid recommending R or D up to this point. I think you need to get away from this woman fast. End it. She's a toxic personality, craven and covetous, and eaten up with a materialistic Mammon sickness inside. Get away from her.

Why are you doing this to yourself????

Get away from her!!!! Permanently!!!!!

You will no longer get new pain!!!!

She is so not being fully honest with you. Remember in your first thread she told you this:

...she found herself trapped and struggled to break it off. she admitted she knew all along it was wrong. she did admit that A would have been still going on.

Now she told you this:

He was trying to convince her to resume the affair but she was done, she claims the A ended before I learned about it and messages can prove it, she also said she even tried to get closer to me during that time ( which is true BTW) till OBS sent me the letter with all evidence.

I hope she will show you these messages to prove this because she told you that the A would still be going before hand. She is minimizing the extent of the affair now. Which means that there is a very high probability that she is minimizing the sex part of the affair as well. And even after telling you some heavy and hurtful stuff, there is much more she is not telling you. If you are going to divorce, you have all you need to know. If you are going to consider R, then consider what she is telling you, how she treated you, and determine if you can accept that she did this to you.

You always had enough to D from the get go, you had enough the second you found out about her 2 year LTA, you initially mentioned you wanted to know more, and I think knowing as much as you can about that part of YOUR life is usually the right approach, plus if there ever was/is a slight chance to R, it's best you KNOW what you would be forgiving and reconciling with, like your father said, face it head on, "sticking your head in the sand" won't make the facts and issues disappear, even if you eventually D you have a right to know and ask questions.

Ugh.. I nearly threw up in my mouth reading that.

Have to agree with most of whats being said here.

Just want to ask why if your wife is not being manipulative is she even now not sticking to the terms of the separation, it's barely started and she's already pushing the boundarys.

As painful as it was for you to read, your WW's affair was garden-variety, no better or worse than most of what we see here. Your choices are still yours. There's no indication that her remorse is not genuine.

One poster described it in terms as if your WW had divorced you without telling you. That is typical. As BS's, we wonder do they think about us, and the answer is mostly 'no'. We're an impediment to their fantasy life and they've already justified in their twisted thinking the myriad reasons why we don't care and/or why they deserve some "happiness". The thought process is an ugly one, but there's a reason why we refer to an imaginary "Cheater's Handbook" and it's because this behavior is so common.

Again, I'm not tying to influence you one way or the other, but you do tend to draw quite a number of remarks which might otherwise lead you to believe that your WW's adultery was worse than anyone else's, and it's just not so. As affairs go, your WW's was a relatively unremarkable mid-life affair. She seems to be genuinely remorseful based on your accounts of her demeanor and she seems to be untwisting her wayward thought process at a rapid rate. I think R is a viable option... IF YOU WANT IT. That said, no cheater is owed a second chance. If you simply don't want this marriage anymore, that's completely okay, and no one should make you feel pressured about that.

You'll read quite a number of comments attributing meaning/motive to her actions during the affair, but it's not uncommon for women of middle age to prioritize romantic attention over sex, even while telling the OM how "hot" he makes her or whatever. So yes.. your WW's account of events IS believable. You'll know better than the rest of us if she's minimizing or withholding because you've known her since she was a kid. Have faith in your ability to see through any subterfuge. Remember that it's one thing for a WS to pull the wool over our closed eyes and another for them to try it when our eyes are wide open.

You're going to get through this. Whether it comes out R or D, you'll eventually get to the other side. Right now is tough because it's uncomfortable to be "on the fence". We end up feeling pressured to act decisively. Just breathe through it and remember that you've already done the things you needed to do in order to provide yourself TIME. You're okay.. doing fine. It'll come to you when it does, and you've got nowhere you need to be before then.

Strength to you.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 5:34 PM, September 9th (Wednesday)]

Boy that was a gut shot alright. Here’s the thing though. It was what a full on Lta looks like when the parties have unlimited access to each other, unlimited freedom to be together, and gullible spouses.

I think it is counterproductive to describe her a a latter day version of Mata Hari. She was doing what people do when they are deeply in love. The biggest crime here is that she is trying to get you to think all the outpouring of words of love and planning were false. They weren’t. It was her reality.

Until she gets real about this, there is no chance for R whatsoever. If she continues down this road it makes her look not like a deluded fool, but a common prostitute. Her insisting that she didn’t love him is telling you that it was all about the job, the gifts and the attention, The trips, in short the money. She doesn’t get to repudiate her own words while simultaneously seeking your love. It only makes her look like a user. It can’t work out.

Unfortunately, her statement that the affair ended by the time you found out is not reliable.

Why? because she 'ended' it before and went back to him - because she couldn't resist all the crazy attention (or feeling special).

The crazy level of attention the OM lavished on her (starting long before the first kiss) is a good example of how a spouse (working within the daily grind of marriage) can never compete with another guy.

Nor should any spouse have to.

IMO, her affair isn't just about poor boundaries and letting the OM get too close. The tattoo excluding you is evidence that she had mentally divorced you prior to meeting the OM.

IMO she knew all along where the relationship with the OM was headed (long before the first kiss). Being married to you was just a temporary inconvenience.

She had mentally divorced you and was shopping for husband #2. She played hard to get at first (and even 'ended' it) because she wanted his assurance that he wanted to marry her and was not looking for just a mistress.

Therefore, after all she invested in the affair, the fact that she was just one of many affairs was a big disappointment/insult/humiliation for her.

That's why she called him that day (and that's when the affair really ended).

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 5:28 PM, September 9th (Wednesday)]

As affairs go, your WW's was a relatively unremarkable mid-life affair

Agreed and his WW seems like a pretty unremarkable person. Truly a standard issue dullard when we’ve had a chance to read her actual musings.

He will find far better than her out in the world.

I think what DOES make it remarkable is how long it went on and how she seemed to relish putting him in humiliating positions.

I find nothing in her behavior or words to repose any confidence in genuine remorse. Nothing at all.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:32 PM, September 9th (Wednesday)]