SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

AH,

I just want a new start in life. I don't even have a clear plan to be honest, but I know I will survive

Flying by the seat of your pants is fun and exciting when you are young with no real responsibilities but that is no way for a man who has built a life and a business to approach his life.

This site is called surviving infidelity but I don't think its intent was for the members to simply survive. I think the site's mission statement might be:

Helping those affected by infidelity while on their journey so they not only survive but thrive through practical insight of other members and to encourage a new life with planning and preparation.

I hope you not only survive but thrive in your new life.

..she said she would never go after my business or be nasty

Maybe not. But her lawyer will. The promises she is making you now don't mean squat. She is still trying to manipulate you and get on your good side. She thinks if she acquiesces and treats you nice you will stop the proceedings and not D.

Believe me, when she gets that divorce petition in her hand, you will see a terrifying transformation occur. The gloves will be off and I predict she will get nasty, and all those promises will go out the window.

1 - Your trigger on board the boat this weekend is something that you should remember to convey to your wife (when appropriate to the discussion).

One more unforeseen consequence of her decision to reinvent herself and have an affair.

The boat is just one instance. There will be many more reminders beyond your (or her) control - and something that your wife should be aware of.

2 - Did your wife lie to you? Initially she said she trusted you to create a fair distribution of property. Now she's insisting on keeping the house.

IMO she's using the house as a last ditch effort to delay, block the divorce and manipulate you.

3 - Inform your wife that while there is nothing she can say or do to save the marriage - her actions with respect to the divorce (like NOT blocking the sale of the house) will have a positive impact on her future relationship with you (as co-parents & co-grandparents).

Add that a civil non-hostile relationship with you (after divorce) will go a long way toward rebuilding her connection with her kids.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 2:59 PM, August 24th (Monday)]

Believe me, when she gets that divorce petition in her hand, you will see a terrifying transformation occur. The gloves will be off and I predict she will get nasty, and all those promises will go out the window.

Yep. Be ready and don't given an inch. This is why a number of us encouraged you to file anyway, because a woman who spends two years in an affair like this is not a nice woman at all. Her true colors will show soon enough and then you will KNOW you are on the right path without a doubt.

AHGuy, glad to hear you had a good weekend. And I'm glad to hear that you are feeling more comfortable about a positive outcome, regardless. You have chosen your path out of infidelity and you are sticking to it. You are correct that everything will work out, and you will have a bright future on the other side.

It is very very very likely she will not be friendly in the divorce. Not keeping the house is a consequence of her choices.

She keeps saying she will do anything and then literally not doing even the things she said she would. Get it in writing and follow your lawyers advice. Believe me, don't give an inch. If she is remorseful and wants to show remorse, she can give you what you're asking and accept the consequences of her choices. She is very much NOT currently doing that. At all.

Just curious to know your opinion about what I just received from my wife, is she finally getting it? Her is what she sent to me:

I don't even know why I'm writing this knowing that you can't believe anything that comes out of me anymore, but I felt I had to let you know 'no matter what had happened and what would happen between us, that I have always loved you and always will. There was no excuse for my adultery, God never mentioned any exceptions when he forbade it, I should have known better that " You shall not commit adultery. ' didn't come with any asterix. I'm compunctionly and painfully realizing that no amount of repentance can undo the damage I caused or heal your pain. I wish I could take it all back.

I killed my marriage, the thing that should have been the most important thing in my life, the thing that I should have cherished the most, In the most horrible way I betrayed you, the person that I promised to love and honor till death do us apart. I'm losing you after losing your trust and your love. I will carry that shame with me the rest of my life.

I push you into choosing divorce, and please do not see it as I'm blaming you, I'm really not, the truth is that you have every right to never want to see me or deal with me again. I feel the same way about myself, without God I’m proven to be nothing more than a disdained woman.You were absolutely right, I was selfish to ask you to stay and give me a chance, maybe I did want to prove that I could be the wife God expected me to be , maybe I did want a chance to make it up to you and our family, maybe I did want a redemption opportunity. but What I surely was looking for is to be with you for my own sake. My life without all of you will be the punishment I certainly deserve.

Despite the urge to ,I’m not sending this email to beg you to stop the divorce train ,I’m not going to do that this time ,I will be sorely standing in front of it. I just want to let you know how sorry I am for everything and my only solace is that I can still pray that one day you could find it in your heart to forgive me and open your doors to me.

ending this email is as hard as ending our marriage, I still have Millions of words I want to tell you , I just don't want to accept the fact that that was all to it.

Nobody can get inside anyone else's head completely, even less so over the Internet like this but I do think she is "getting it" as you say. There will be many that say this is just saying what she thinks you want to hear or maybe repeating what she's read but I don't hear that. I hear a person broken by what they have done. Facing the truth about who they are and not liking what they see.

Look, you do what you need to do, what is right in your heart, what you think is best for the remainder of your life. Nobody "deserves" a second chance and frankly the concept of "deserves" is just not anything I believe in at all. If you've ever seen Unforgiven there is a part right before Clint Eastwood kills Gene Hackman "Deserve's got nothing to do with it" That's kind of how I view it all now.

Can she become a safe partner, a wife you can be proud of, Sure, I don't know, maybe? It is so hard to say. You know better than any of us but strictly on what you ask here. Does this sound like someone that is "getting it" that sees the devastation she has sown and doesn't want what she is reaping from it. I say yes it does and I will say this as well. There are a lot of people on here that have tried Reconciliation with much less than this statement of contrition to go on. Good luck to you. I root for your peace.

Yeah... I do think she's getting it. I've been thinking she's remorseful for awhile now but has been holding onto the outcome. With this new email, she's starting to show willingness to let go of the outcome even though she really doesn't want to. She's seeing that she has to prioritize your needs.

There was no excuse for my adultery, God never mentioned any exceptions when he forbade it, I should have known better that " You shall not commit adultery. ' didn't come with any asterix.

Right here, she's starting to deal with the lies she told herself in order to give herself permission to cheat. And that's good too. She's seeing that the boundary was an immovable one and that no excuse was good enough for breaking that boundary.

All in all, I think you'd have a good shot at R... if you want it. Even your WW is starting to acknowledge that you don't owe it to her though. It really does come down to what you want for your life. As hard as it might be and as unnatural as it might feel, you really do need to decide what's going to make YOU the happiest.

AH,

This is all good and fine, but where were all this love and respect for her marriage before the OBS contacted you?

Where was all this love and religion while she was actively playing house and patty-cake with a rich guy behind your back?

The words ring false because of how long this continued.

She also uses phrases such as "divorce train" and that she would stand in front of it.

This is an NLP technique to paint her as someone about to be eviscerated by you actions (divorcing her). She is still giving you a sales pitch, but going into the telling you what you want to hear phase while subtly injecting herself as a victim of your actions.

This is a bating technique that can slip into the sub-conscious mind if not recognized or pointed out.

Remind yourself, she is not the victim. She willfully gave herself to another man for 2 years and these new colors are only a result of her being outed.

I have to hand it to your wife, she studied her sales material well and is adept in using it.

This makes her dangerous.

Strength to you AH, your road still has some thorns and boulder strewn, walk it with great care.

[Edited for spelling and number and concord]

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 3:57 PM, August 24th (Monday)]

Nobody can get inside anyone else's head completely,

Exactly, especially a bunch of internet strangers.

None of us know, but we all have opinions.

Personally, I do not doubt she feels the feels she is indicating now. And we all know while they are cheating they do not feel that way.

But there are a few hurdles that YOU will have to pass to change your mind

(1) The length and intensity of what you have seen and read. this was NOT a case of a few hook ups.

(2) The fact that you got basically a play by play from the OBS. No unseeing that picture of her naked in his bed or unreading those texts or e mails, and bull shit that she did not mean those things when she said them.

(3) Her behavior after being caught. If you had not pissed her off, you still would not know she talked to him three times while she was supposedly NC and writing you e mails, nor the phone call which should never have been made. She had no intention of telling you. And that is after she got caught.

You will have to sort this out YOURSELF at this point. One way or the other, if you ever needed a polygraph to let you know if this was her first time and other things before you make a decision, now is the time. And if she has gotten it, give me a reason why she would not prove to you the truth.

Yes, I think she finally gets it!

Interesting to see that "some" folks here are advising you to divorce while they are reconciling with their own wayward spouses, AHGuy take note of that!

Not every advice here is good for you, people here will forget about you in couple of months, but you will live with it for the rest of your life!

AHGuy, take the advice that works for you best, the advice that is closest to your feelings, if you need time to think, then that's fine, put the divorce on hold (your daughter will be pleased) and examine every thing again then do what you want to do!

Remember there is no rush!

No one is putting a gun against your head!

If you divorce now or after a month or a year, you will not lose a leg or a limb!

Take your time and reflect!

Either way, R or D both are long roads that you need to heal from, so why the rush?!

Remember, do what you think is the closest to your feelings, if you don't know yet, then wait and don't rush!

Your father is a wise guy, take his advice!

I wish you the best of luck!

[This message edited by Kaliber at 4:13 PM, August 24th (Monday)]

Just curious to know your opinion about what I just received from my wife, is she finally getting it?

Maybe.

You will know if she's getting it when her actions over a long period of time reflect the words she wrote.

It's usually best this soon after d-day to discount anything that a cheater says. Their actions over time will show you more than their words.

Interesting to see that "some" folks here are advising you to divorce while they are reconciling with their own wayward spouses

Just because someone reconciles, does not mean they think every marriage is salvageable, that is a very one-dimensional thinking.

Remember, none of us are experts, but we have to advise as to what we see.

I don't know AH. I don't think 'finally" is the right way to phrase it here. You've been dealing with this for the blink of an eye.

It takes most WS's years to cure themselves from rectal cranial inversion.

There's a lot of "I" in the email she sent to you. A lot less blameshifting for sure. But certainly a lot of woe-is-me posing as the victim. She's not the victim here, but it would be hard to tell from that email.

A couple of thoughts for you, and keep in mind this is just my opinion as a keyboard warrior who doesn't know you in real life in person:

1. "I have always loved you and always will." - I heard this same thing from my WW. It's a big mistake on their part and I don't know why they say it, bc it isn't true. As far we're concerned for the purposes of this discussion about ten seconds ago, the marriage meant shit to her basically until the OBS caught her red-handed and gave the evidence to you.

I wouldn't be surprised if, like it did for me, this pronouncement rings hollow to you. Why so? Because you know what I know: that she spent two years, and really longer than that, showing through her actions that she didn't love you. She took unloving action after unloving action piled up on top of each other to the sky like a stinking landfill. Words are meaningless in the face of this. You know this, so the cognitive dissonance of hearing she "always" loved you feels forced and inauthentic. Love is a verb. Love is what we do.

2. The whole "I'm going to stand in front of the divorce train" thing. As others have pointed out, this is a subtle but seemingly intentional language shift on her part. It implies you are literally railroading her and charging ahead before thinking it though. You are not railroading her, you are not charging ahead, you are not being rash, and if she REALLY respects you she will stop trying to frame it this way.

3. As I said there is more than a little bit of victim posing here: "the punishment I certainly deserve" (as if YOU are punishing HER, see how that works?), "a disdained woman" (Oh that's a good one calling to mind the adulteress Jesus admonished others to "cast the first stone" against - by the way this passage is considered an interpolation written centuries later by a scribe and is noted as such in just about every Bible you'll read) "give me a chance" "I will carry that shame" and most importantly "I pray one day you could find it in your heart"

It's really important to pay attention to those kinds of key phrases. Saying that positions you as unforgiving and her as a prayerful woman just trying to save her marriage.

That's not the way it is. That's not the reality you're both dealing with.

And again, she's confusing forgiveness with staying together. You need to be firm on this and clear in your own head: forgiveness does not imply either reconciliation or divorce. They are SEPARATE things. They are NOT the same thing. You can forgive and reconcile. You can forgive and divorce. Both equally legitimate because the forgiveness is a separate action and separate decision. Be really clear and firm about that.

You should absolutely seek forgiveness in your heart for her, and my contention is that after a 2-year off the charts toxic affair you will probably find it faster being apart and detached from her in divorce.

4. "I just don't want to accept the fact that that is all to it"- this is a confusing phrase here by her. What does she mean, do you think? Is she saying the divorce you are pursuing represents a sad end to a quarter century of marriage? She's right, of course, but so what? You didn't blow it up. She did. Is she saying it all feels somewhat tragic and anticlimactic after all the drama and excitement of her affair? Sort of "is this all there is?" I really wonder if that is the more accurate interpretation. In which case, she's a really misguided soul, but we already knew that.

The email is fine and all as far it goes, but it's just an email. What does she say about the heater incident? It stands out large in my mind, because implicitly it suggests there were many more conversations between her and him like this expressing contempt for you and her giggling along with or encouraging it.

I find this sort of thing maddening, frankly. Cheaters do what they do and then decide they will "fight" for the marriage tooth and nail, stand in front of the "train" you're intent on ramming down the tracks, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.

Why? It doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me. Destroy the very thing you claim to value so much and then refuse to end it in terms of the legal formalities? Can't get my head around that. I'm sure you can't either.

If she's truly remorseful she will continue to show it day after day AFTER you file for D. You will know pretty quick what you're dealing with. If after you file, the claws come out and you see the space alien emerge again, you will know what you need to know.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:53 PM, August 24th (Monday)]

Interesting to see that "some" folks here are advising you to divorce while they are reconciling with their own wayward spouses, AHGuy take note of that!

Not every advice here is good for you, people here will forget about you in couple of months, but you will live with it for the rest of your life!

I'm divorcing my WW, AHGuy, after nearly 4 years of attempting reconciliation. I decided, finally, it was a deal breaker for me. That's after a whole shitshow of drama and a wake up call on a heart attack scare earlier this year that thankfully turned out to be false. In so many ways, I wish I'd reached this conclusion sooner and I don't want to see the same painful limbo trajectory for other betrayed men.

I'm not a jump-to-divorce kind of guy on everything. If I were, would I have spent nearly four years trying to figure out if I could remain in the marriage I'm in?

But your WW's adultery is off the charts toxic, as Beyond Rage has reminded you.

So take note of that. If you ever want to PM me, please reach out.

Remember there is no rush!

This is true enough. There's also no reason to wait if you feel good about your decision. A lot of people told me "there's no rush!" If I had a time machine, I'd go back and shake those people by the lapels and give them the what for and tell them to STOP telling newly betrayed spouses this. It puts undue pressure on you to forestall the inevitable if you already know it's a dealbreaker

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:44 PM, August 24th (Monday)]

In my humble opinion it's just words.

Is she starting to "get it"? Who's to say.

The bottom line is she has shown she is not a safe partner and hasn't been for a very long time.

In order for her to show you that she could be trusted and a "safe partner" it would entail watching her actions over a very long period of time (like a minimum of two years).

Only you could decide if that's a road you're willing to go down and if she's someone you'd want to invest time and energy in (obviously).

Again in my humble opinion I think you should continue with the divorce. To see how she acts when lawyers get involved. A lawyer will obviously try to be aggressive but anything they do has to be signed off by their client.

Than see how she is after the divorce.

What work will she have done in IC?

Who knows after the divorce she may see that you stuck to your guns and divorced her and now she's moving on as well and given up hope to try and get that second chance she's desperately seeking. Maybe she didn't want it that bad to begin with (another chance).

Also see how she spins the divorce to others (friends, people in the church etc). Will she make you out to be the bad guy?

Who knows and only time will tell if what she's saying now is true remorse and signs that she's "getting it" or just words that she spews when she's trying to get something she wants.

The only way to determine this is through time (not weeks, not months, but again years).

Just my two cents but at the end of the day AH this is your life my friend.

Judge her by her actions (e.g., not blocking the sale of the house) not her words.

Thumos has eloquently stated exactly what I was was less effectively trying to say and has some excellent points I did not even consider myself.

Please read his post with great care AH.

There was no excuse for my adultery, God never mentioned any exceptions when he forbade it, I should have known better that " You shall not commit adultery. ' didn't come with any asterix.

I agree with ChamomileTea, but the quoted part above sucks. Should have known BETTER there wasn't an asterisk? It reads as if the major part of this ordeal is not living up to God's expectations, you know like everyone else. Is religion the only thing holding her back going forward? If not and I were you I 'd much rather hear about the other things.