SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just back to say hi friend.

Here's my two cents. I've been where you are. I got hit with knowledge of two LTAs... Years worth... That spanned most of my marriage. I had no idea. She introduced me to the AP and tried to go on a vacation with them and make us friends...yeah. I've been there.

I still tried to salvage it. Am I proud of trying? Yes. Did I end up divorced? Yes. I filed. Why? She just wasn't that into me. Lack of intimacy for years coupled with discovering that... Just couldn't get past it.

You're in those same shoes now.

Here are two options:

1.) You can divorce, take six months off, and set a date if she wants to give it another shot. Or a year. Or two years. Whatever it is. In the divorce she lets you keep your business and you let her keep hers. You end it amicably for the sake of your kids, give yourself some breathing room and see if she still wants to try again. Watch her during this time. If she's using it to go out and have some fun with other guys...then it wasn't meant to be anyway. You can just walk away.

2.) You could do a postnuptial or separation agreement/property division. Separate finances completely. (If this is possible in your jurisdiction.). See how she plays it. If she really wants to be with you then it'll show. If not, you walk away clean.

If I had to guess, you're needing to feel like she wants YOU but you can't trust her or whatever she says. You're worried she just wants to run back to safety. And you're right to be worried about that. That's not love.

The big thing right now is this. Be content with your decision. You might think it's too soon to make one... Or not. But make sure it's the right decision for you. Be kind to yourself here. There's no shame in waiting. There's no shame in divorcing and then trying again. There's no shame in trying again period. The only shame you have is if you continue to be beaten down by this. That's the shame. You've taken a punch, but there hasn't been a bell. Time to get back up.

I would say you should get some time apart. Get some perspective. You liked the fishing trip, keep doing those things.

But most of all, have the courage and conviction to do what you want now. Does divorce suck? Yup, especially with kids. Does staying with someone you're afraid of - a stranger that once took joy in humiliating you - suck? Oh yeah. It sucks.

There's no good choice here, only less bad ones. Dig into your core, figure out what you value most, figure out what you can live with, and make the best choice you can. Forgive yourself for having to make it, because being put in this position is not on you - she put you here. But take time to make that choice. It might be best to take that time away from her, but that's just my opinion.

Anyway, overall, just be kind to yourself. Then get back up and reclaim you. Then figure out what you want to do with your marriage.

If she’s not owning and examining what she actually perpetrated on her husband then her relationship with herself is practically useless navel gazing.

She did actual things to her husband and carried out actual actions against him, targeting him and his physical well-being in the real three dimensional world in real time and space. Her targeting of him in the heater episode is but one example as is repeatedly exposing him to possible physical harm from STD’s.

Her latest email indicates that she's made quite a lot of progress taking ownership of her affair and examining her actions. I don't consider that to be "useless navel gazing". Even if the marriage ends in D, she's made corrections to the mindset which allowed her to cheat. Is it perfect?... no. It's 6-7 weeks out from DDay. There's still a lot of work to do, and part of that work is examining her own character, her lack of boundaries, and her real core values. She's still handing that off to Jesus at this point but she's going to need to dig deeper.

As far as the horrible things she did during the affair, whose WS doesn't do horrible things while they're cheating?? I know mine did. He fucked an OW on my birthday, was gone all day Christmas Eve that year, and was even gone on Christmas morning. I read through his emails. I saw all their jokes at my expense, the names they called me. They went a whole day at one point with "your wife's a c***" and at other times, talked about setting up scenarios where she could be under my unsuspecting nose. Hell, at one point one of his OW's came to my work pretending to be a customer. So, shitty cheaters do shitty things. This isn't news. We've got people here who got permanent STDs from their WS, people who have had WS's either getting pregnant or impregnating someone else. The "furnace incident", while clearly reprehensible, isn't the worst thing we've ever seen. It doesn't result in a lifetime of medical concerns or 18 years of child support.

I do feel like there's inordinate pressure being applied on AHGuy to pursue D, and while I'm happy to be supportive of him whatever he decides, R is still a viable option. There's nothing here precluding it.

Things are progressing forward. Be grateful that your WW is attempting some form of remorse. As I have said previously, her actions thus far have been 'light years' ahead of ALOT of other waywards that have been discussed on here.

The heater incident has been thrown around again. Another perspective to consider is that her version has some truth to it. She had no intent to have sex there straight after it was repaired.

I see her AP as an arrogant piece of sh**, who got off on power games. I would say that it was him who initiated all the derogative remarks about you. That enjoyed manipulating situations, including your wife, in his power games.

I will also say this, there are some famous threads here you should read.

Spaceghost007 stands out. I think, if you were like me and read that thread you kinda rooted for them to try again. Ultimately Spaceghost was in the divorce camp firmly and he made the right decision for him. But if you want to see remorse, read that one.

Mr. And Mrs. Walloped seemed to have something special after something like what you're going through, but Mr. Walloped acted in exactly the right way and Mrs. Walloped still helps people here that I see.

And then there are more examples than I care to count that tried and were unsuccessful.

Internet forums have this tendency to become an echo chamber, especially when we are all dealing with the same hurt. The 'right' decision is often the one for many people that want to juxtapose how they wish they acted. We are all hurt. We all have hope. We all want something to not have happened and we are all searching to feel whole again. So the advice comes from all over the place.

The only guy who matters in your story is you. Your kids. Your employees. This is your story to write.

You want to cling to stories that will make you feel better. Research how to feel good again. Figure out how to pick up the shattered pieces and salvage something. But what really matters here is you. The pieces you're picking up are you, not your life... Theyre you. You have the task of rebuilding yourself.

Be kind to you and strong in your convictions. But also know that no matter how you find happiness again that everyone here will be happy for you.

Very well said Chamomile Tea and Waggingthedog. There is no such thing as worst case. Pain is pain and all betrayed feel it. Yes there are valid points that she is only on this path because she was caught and not because she voluntarily confessed. But now that she is here who knows what can happen. You owe her nothing but you should recommend her to see an independent IC if for nothing else but her own benefit.

In the end do what feels best for you AHG to get out of this pain. No one can see the future but we can work towards making it better.

So, shitty cheaters do shitty things. This isn't news. We've got people here who got permanent STDs from their WS, people who have had WS's either getting pregnant or impregnating someone else. The "furnace incident", while clearly reprehensible, isn't the worst thing we've ever seen. It doesn't result in a lifetime of medical concerns or 18 years of child support.

I agree the furnace incident was really bad but not the worst we've seen here by a long shot, however I disagree with the STD assertion, AHguy did not get an STD just by pure "luck", not because his WW did anything to prevent him from getting one, quite the opposite, SHE put him at risk of getting one, if POSOM (who had other APs) had been infected by one of his other APs chances are he would have infected his WW, moreover there's till 3-4 years since she began acting weird and changed her lifestyle, that are not accounted for and that we don't nothing about but based on the two year LTA alone, it's evident that WW's did not exactly have AHguy's health in mind or the risk of getting and then passing an STD to him.

None of can read her mind and her feelings. What is pretty clear is for the last two years the fact she loved you did not matter.

She has some remorse but it is still mostly how it impacts her.

AHG, maybe it’s the beginning of remorse. Maybe it’s just another manipulation.

Does it really matter to you which one it is? Or are you just done with it, with her?

To me, it sounds like you are done.

Maybe, with lots of therapy and bible study, she can make herself into a decent partner..... for some other guy.

A guy who is willing to gamble that she won’t go feral again.

A guy she has not tried to cuck and then laugh about it later with her lover.

I would say let that guy assume the risk.

Meanwhile, There is a world of decent, non-cheating women out there that you can meet. Women looking for a hardworking, honest man like yourself.

You are the prize here my friend. Better days ahead.

[This message edited by ramius at 10:32 PM, August 24th (Monday)]

I don’t know. Of course she gets it. Now. But the damage has been done. So what is served by this email? Isn’t it just more of the same? Histrionics and handwringing. Hey everybody, stop the presses I’m sad. And again with the Bible thumping. It has to be so wearing on you.

At the end of the day, are you supposed to forget that she was living the dream, lying to you every day, taking her pleasures with another guy at every opportunity, and absolutely loving it, 60 days ago?

If she had any real sense of striking the right note, she would leave you in peace. Instead, she keeps letting you know what a martyr she is to your hard ways and toughness. “Hey all. I said right away he would never forgive me. See how right I was. Now I’m being run over. What more do you need to know? He just never could see everything the right way. I’m just a victim to his rock hard rigid unbending stubbornness. Who could live with such a man? I’ll just have to make due knowing that he can’t see what he is giving up. Oh it makes me cry. So I will. There. See.”

The more you engage, the more of this you will get. NC = no new hurts.

Here's another person's take on your current situation....

The remorse vs. regret debate: For me, remorse is a strong word. That is someone who fully gets 'it'. It is someone who puts the pain of the one they hurt IN FRONT of their own pain. There is no 'woe is me'.....there is 'Oh my God---how can I ease your hurting?".

In a nutshell, Remorse is all about you. Regret is all about them.

The one other thing about remorse, and again, I believe in this strongly---it is continued actions OVER TIME. I don't believe that anyone is 'immediately remorseful'. I believe one can be immediately horrified by their actions, but to truly UNDERSTAND your pain, and to continually work at easing your pain....it simply takes time. It takes time for a wayward person, who up until they were slammed with consequences, had some pretty fucked up thinking. Do you think that mindset just fixes itself right away? Go ahead and read over in the Wayward Forum, and look at some of the posters who have been here for quite some time. You can get a pretty good vibe on the ones who have found remorse, and they will be the FIRST ONES TO TELL YOU that it took a lot of time and a lot of work to get their head in a good space.

So take your wife's words for what YOU believe them to be. Being that you asked our opinion, mine would be that she is someone who is starting to see the devastation that she caused. She is also in a stage of heavy regret, because she sees the damage that will affect HER. Sure, there is room for your feelings too, but they are not front and center where they should be.....yet. Maybe she will continue to grow, and maybe she won't. But she has a loooooong road ahead of her no matter what.

On a different note, I am a huge believer of financial security. One of the first things that goes through my head when I read a new story of infidelity, is "Does the BS have a good financial footing? Will they get not only their fair share, but 'something' that can ease one more burden in their lives?" And in your situation, your business is what seems the most obvious. Is there a solution, where your WW isn't left financially vulnerable, but can offer you what is needed for you to continue? If it is the house, can some agreement be made where both parties can accept the terms?

She may be "getting it" or she may have studied and learned to act like she is supposed to.

There is a lot of "oh woe is me" in there, still trying to compare her own self-induced pain to yours.

Whether she gets it or not, the damage is not repairable IMHO.

Maybe not. But her lawyer will.

This comment was related to whether or not the WS will go after the OP financially in a divorce.

This is merely an anecdote, what happened to me when my wife of 11 years decided she would rather be with her new boyfriend coworker than me.

Now I will never think that it was a coincidence that this happened on the tails of a bad business stretch on my part. It was the first year since I was 14 years old that I made no money. It really was not a problem though.

We had always kept separate finances at my direction before the marriage. All joint expenses were paid jointly, everything else was mine or hers. I totally believe in this arrangement, I don't want anyone to be with me because they have to financially. 99% of arguments over finances disappear because it's your money or my money.

I had a lot of money saved up, I have always been careful with money. She got a lawyer for the divorce, I was pretty passive about the whole process as I was as ready to end the marriage officially as she was.

We all (her, lawyer and me) had only one meeting. In this meeting the subject of my savings (mid 6 figures) came up. The lawyer was INSISTENT that my STBXWW was entitled to half of it. And I mean INSISTENT. She was clearly angry that STBXWW would not agree. Surprisingly to me, my wife stood by her agreement with me and did not take the money.

Why? Well she cheated on me with at least one other man (I think probably 2-3 more) before she went with AP, so it wasn't because of her moral compass.

I think it was because she knew I would only be kicked in the teeth so many times before consequences would ensue. But, that is merely a guess, maybe she just felt guilty enough. She knew I had done nothing to be treated this way and admitted so.

My whole point in relating this saga is "it's not up to the lawyer".

And one more thing: at one point she expressed surprise I that I had saved that much money. I told her "I told you how much I had just a few months ago, who 'doesn't listen' now"?

[This message edited by whatIknowNow at 5:55 AM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

For what its worth, I believe that she is remorseful. This does not mean that she does not feel regret too etc.

This could be salvageable with a lot of hard work by both of you but the decision is really up to you OP. I, for one, would always be haunted by incidents like the HVAC repair she had you carry out so that she and the POS could screw in peace. That would constantly remind me of what she is capable of.

On the other hand she may well become a better wife and never do this again but you and your family have already paid the price. So its down to you and what you are prepared to cope with if you do reconcile - long (years) period of hard work, triggers, her needing to prove in actions her committment to helping you heal etc. The alternative is a clean break, initial pain that will eventually get less and less and a fresh start at life. This too will have regret from you at the wasted time and emotion invested over these years.

If you really really love her and do see good in her, then maybe you should give R a chance. Else, stay on your current path of D.

As Beyond Rage previously stated, polygraph now or you will always have doubts if you truly know everything. Now is the time. If you find out she hasn’t been truthful it will save you a lot of misery.

Just back to say hi friend.

Waggingthedog, thanks for your input, you are so correct in so many points here. our stories are similar in many ways, maybe that's why you can understand how I feel.you said:

If I had to guess, you're needing to feel like she wants YOU but you can't trust her or whatever she says. You're worried she just wants to run back to safety. And you're right to be worried about that. That's not love.

this is exactly how I feel, I'm needing her love and attention I do want her to want me and to show it, I can't hide that I liked it when she told my parents and kids that she wanted me but the only thing I can add is that at times I resent myself for wanting to believe her. I can't do it, can't just ignore all what she did and believe her, my heart still wants her and for whatever stupid reason it pains me when I think about letting her go to be with someone else, I know I'm selfish , I want to let her go but at the same time I'm resenting the thought of her being with someone else.

I would say you should get some time apart. Get some perspective. You liked the fishing trip, keep doing those things.

You are right, a time a part is a must regardless. I do want to spend more time on me I just feel hypocrite because this was her main complains about me prior and during her affair.She was asking me to slow down and spend more time doing fun stuff.

But most of all, have the courage and conviction to do what you want now. Does divorce suck? Yup, especially with kids. Does staying with someone you're afraid of - a stranger that once took joy in humiliating you - suck? Oh yeah. It sucks

It does really suck, that why i was rushing to file for divorce because the limbo of not knowing what to do sucks even more. everyone that was asking me to take more time didn'r consider the pain that goes with that decision. but maybe they're right.

If you really really love her and do see good in her, then maybe you should give R a chance. Else, stay on your current path of D.

Gibraltar, thank you again for your perspective. yes I do love her and she does have a good side, but I'm unable to be definite about D or R. I know I'm taking forever it's already approaching 2 months since I discovered her infidelity. I wish it was as easy for me as it was for you to just accept it and move on with your decision.

AH there is no right or wrong path.

It's your life and you have to do what's best for YOU and only you!!! Not your wife, not your kids (they'll be ok whichever route you go, nor your extended family).

CT, I respect your opinion but I have to disagree with "she's made corrections to the mindset which allowed her to cheat".

How do you know this? Because of an email that she recently sent to AH?

As I and others have pointed out anything she says is just words (especially this soon after the affair being exposed and at least TWO YEARS of lying).

The ONLY way to determine if she's truly made "corrections to the mindset" is to watch her actions (not words) over a length of time (at minimum two years).

So her words are better than most other WW at this juncture?

Does this really mean anything at this juncture especially from someone who has been lying for years?

Again it will be ALL about her actions (repeated action(s) over a long period of time to determine where her "mindset" truly is.

Of course you still love her AH. You don't turn love off and on like a light switch. The trust is gone and the pain of everything she's done is still with you and will continue to be with you for a long time.

AH I see how you are struggling and I’m sorry to see you in this position.

A few thoughts about “limbo”.

First never rush to make a decision. You may regret it. You do not have to decide anything right now. You can live married and together or married and separated. My therapist suggested no decisions for 3-6 months if you’re undecided.

Second my therapist talked about a “successful divorce”.

As an aside my H kept demanding a D during his affair. Then he’d changed his mind. A few weeks later he wants a D. So you can understand my position b/c I didn’t want a D but agreed to it every time b/c I was t going to force my H to stay with me if he didn’t love me.

So the advice I received was you will walk away from a marriage with minimal regret if you know you did your best and you did everything possible to save the marriage Whether you are the person who initiated the D or not — if you tried your best you have less guilt over the D.

It took me 6 months to stop thinking “I’m divorcing him” everyday. It took one year to stop thinking of divorce at all. We came back and reconciled from the brink of a divorce - the last time initiated by me.

I saw true remorse and immediate changes from my H. He worked extremely hard to reconcile. He committed to do everything he could to turn things around.

I could have been adamant and gone through with a D after dday2 and months of false reconciliation. But I saw a change and took a chance. I gave it 6 months in my mind for his last chance. If after that I wasn’t happy I had planned to move forward with a D.

I hope this helps you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:28 AM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

I know I'm taking forever it's already approaching 2 months since I discovered her infidelity.

Whoa partner. Do NOT beat yourself up for taking too long. Nor are you rushing. You are moving that the pace that is right for YOU. You don't have to justify this to anyone except yourself. Some people know immediately that they will not accept infidelity. Spaceghost was one. Others consider for a while or offer R. As Booyah said, there is no set of instructions for D (or R). Each individual has to choose there own path and make the decisions they think are best.

Keep focusing on yourself and your healing.

So far, all she has done is go NC, and written an email with all the right words. What is she DOING? Words mean nothing.

AH your biggest issue is that you are unable to accept who your wife really is versus who you though she was and who you would like to believe her to be. There is a big difference between who your wife really is and who you think she is. Your wife has shown you who she really is. Without question she has been showing for the last 2 years.

If you want to know how much your wife really loves you all you have to do is look at her actions the last 2 years before she was exposed. A person's actions will always show you who they really are in spite of a convincing performance and all the pretty words they throw your way.

You can even get that answer from one incident that you shared in particular. Where she dragged you out of state to fix the heating at her APs love nest. She remained behind to service her lover while she sent you home. Your work was done she had no further need of you as a chauffeur, unpaid laborer or husband. How much did she love you at this point? How much did she love you each time she met her lover over the last two years? Could you please point out to me where the good is in your wife with this example?

She is remorseful. Honestly what other choice does she have now that the fantasy is over? Do you think she would be acting as she is right now if the other man offered to leave his wife and commit to yours? You would be treated with the same contempt and disrespect she has shown you the last 2 years she was with the other man.

If you really want the truth, how much she loves you, why don't you ask her about some of the jokes they made at your expense. Cheaters all tear down their loyal spouses to help justify their affairs. Her answer word for word to you will be "I would never do that to you." Pro tip on people who use the word never. When a person claims they will never do this or that to you, that is exactly what they will do to you. Let's assume your wife has a shred of honesty and she admits the possibility she and her lover joked and laughed at your expense. Her answer "I don't remember."

If the other betrayed spouse shared a recording of your wife and her AP tearing you down, making light of your insecurities, and having a good laugh at your expense what would your reaction be? Do you think you would be as conflicted as you are right now? I very much doubt it.

Your wife decided to strike out on her own 6 years ago. For the last two years she believed she had successfully groomed your replacement. Your wife chose to do all this because that is what she wanted and because she could. Please point out to me where the goodness in her was in these two examples.

As far as rushing into divorce, serious problems require swift and decisive action. Your wife has done her best to delay this decision especially at the expense of compromising your healing process. You are at this point because your wife's actions. Naturally your wayward wife will say you are rushing. She has the most to lose and she was only too happy to gamble it all away when she had the expectation she was going to trade up. Your kids do not want their family to break up but they aren't walking in your shoes. There is only one person's needs that matter in this moment - Yours.

You are unable to be definite about D or R. People speak the truth in secret when they believe no one else is listening.. Ask the other betrayed spouse how many recordings she has of the former lovers together. Ask if you can have a copy of them all. Have a good listen to the truth. See if that doesn't help you decide D or R.

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 3:59 PM, August 25th (Tuesday)]