Newest Member: Imthecheater

Just Found Out :
My 49(M) wife (46F) had a 1+ year affair I just found out about

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Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 2:19 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

Particle we know you're stumbling like pretty much everyone who comes here shortly after Dday, go back to my list of suggestions, I suggested a postnup, consult a D attorney about it, even if it ends up not being enforceable, it may tell you a lot by the way she would react to it, it looks like she contacted an attorney so she was getting ready for D, you should do the same, know where you stand legally.

Others have talked about the need to discuss and document every little detail, I don't really think I am "ready" for that? I have the texts for example, not ready to face them. Is that ok, does it need to be right now? That's the hard part, I can open them anytime I want...

Again if you go back to my list, one of the suggestions was a "written and complete timeline" of the A, with as much details as possible, as a matter of fact, in situations like yours ("not ready to read it"), it is often recommended you demand she writes 2 timelines, a PG version and the XXX version and put them in an envelop, you don't even have to read them now or ever, but they will be there should you need to in the future, they will surely contain much more than what you have on the texts, situations, thought process, etc. The written timeline forces the WS to face her betrayal and "taint" any shared "special/romantic/exciting/secret" moment with OM, they will no longer be "their special secrets", the very person they were trying to hide them from will now have it in black and white, it helps with remorse, remember no remorse, no chance to successfully R. I recommend that you do read EVERYTHING, don't asume you won't find relevant info without reading it yourself, you may even find admissions to other As she may have had in the past, not that uncommon when it comes to LTAs like yours and we've certainly seen it here before a number of times. Again knowledge is power, I've never been a fan of the "bury the head in the sand" approach, but of course this is your life and ultimately your decision.

Another suggestion was FULL EXPOSURE, you asked about consequences, this is one of them, in a one year LTA feelings are typically developed and would have probably continued developing had you not caught her, like someone else mentioned she made THOUSANDS of decisions and lies to carry this A for that long, even being married with a digital detective didn't stop her, she could have stopped on her own but HAD to be caught. Nothing kills the "beautiful, special, exciting and romantic" aspect of an A like FULL EXPOSURE with ALL family and close friends, at least stakeholders, don't hide her A, let her face the music and apologize at least to your children and both sets of parents (if alive). These suggestions and that of others mentioned in this thread have stood the test of time (except the RA one). Exposure is NOT meant to punish her, even if she felt that way, it's meant to have her face the consequences, she risked the stability of the entire family for a year with no end in sight, she should at least apologize for her huge betrayal, again it helps with remorse, shows humility on her part and tells you she's willing to make significant sacrifices to restore the M she destroyed.

Good news on that front? I checked her FB and that person is no longer in her friends list. I do not want to talk about this person with her because she does not know I can access her FB yet.

She doesn't need to know you're checking her FB for you to engage in a conversation about "who knew and enabled the A", ask her again who knew about it and what was those people's reaction and suggestions, then tell her any toxic ones like this "friend" needs to go, like many others have said, she's NOT friends of the M, this is another test, if she refuses or resists giving up a friendship in order to save her M then that should tell you how much she values your feelings and that she's light years away from being truly remorseful.

posts: 2447   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 2:50 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

There should no longer be intimate mutual secrets between these two illicit lovers. Mutual illicit intimate secrets lead to latent romance or romantic sentimentality.

I don't want to speak for someone else, but the way I interpret 'intimate mutual secrets' are any little nuances that they may have had together...and at the time, felt 'special' to your wife. Maybe they ate lunch at a little cafe. Maybe they bought each other some little piece of jewelry or keepsake. Maybe there is something at your home that was either purchased by the OM or by your wife with the OM in mind. THESE are the intimate details that need to be rooted out, so your WW can see, if she is now getting it, how it was not only foolish, but ultimately devastating to the marriage.

How would you feel 3 years down the road if a flower vase prominently displayed in the living room was bought with the OM right next to her? I'm not saying that your WW is deliberately keeping some ember smoldering, but that vase may not be the first thing on her mind when her world is falling around her. And that stupid little vase/cafe/jewelry can have a much bigger impact if left undetected for a long period of time.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 8:51 AM, May 31st (Sunday)]

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married 28yrs.(together over 30yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day(s): Enough
Accepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 3830   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8547220
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BeyondRage ( member #71328) posted at 3:06 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

Particle,

I am guessing the reason she called the attorney was because of the things said when you confronted her. If not, and she was calling an attorney before that, the problem takes on a different scope.

What you should be really disturbed about is that she apparently is so sure that she has weathered the storm that she tells lawyer not needed any more.

One consequence that you should be giving her is the uncertainty of the decision you are going to make. If she does not believe that she can lose her marriage, she is not going to get you what you need.

I read my wife's journal. Yes, it was triggering, and some of it hurt. But there was never a doubt of what she was thinking because it was in front of me in detail.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the FB thing. For all you know she may have even told this friend she was going to do that. Not sure what kind of angry woman group she was in but how and why did she join it might be a question you might want to ask.

You are doing a real good job of processing, but to me the danger signs for you are

(1) she already thinks she is reconciling

(2) you do not know all the details of what you are reconciling with

(3) you have a single OM out there in close proximity who just abruptly got told his side piece of ass got caught. So i guess you are trusting her to tell you if he reaches out to her, which he will do to test her.

You are tech savvy. use the skill and put a VAR in her car. if she is still talking to him or anyone she should not be it will not be in the house.

And if i were you i would not rush headlong into a shrinks office. If she goes to IC you need her to sign a document authorizing the shrink to meet with you. There are tons of cases where the shrink does not get anywhere near the truth from WW and the BS is clueless as to why no progress is being made or even worse when the WW is told to hold back information, which happens all the time.

You will notice i have said nothing of whether or not you should R or D. Only you can decide that. Doesn't matter what I would do, and any predictions of your wifes future behavior with certainty are worthless. its all a game of "odds".

And I think you are refusing a useful tool if you do not at some point month or two from now bring up a polygraph just to see her reaction.

Me- 49M
WW- 48F
Kids- 23,21,20,18 all female
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=640592

posts: 478   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2019   ·   location: Southeast USA
id 8547222
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Waggingthedog ( member #65793) posted at 3:33 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

Hold up. She was talking to a lawyer three weeks ago and only one week ago told the lawyer that she would no longer need services?

This is a red flag to me. Don’t take this as legal advice. Consult a lawyer in your jurisdiction.

Curious. Was this consult with a lawyer before you knew of the affair? If so then there are some important things you should be doing. Chief among them is consulting a divorce attorney to know your rights and what a divorce may look like.

If your WW consulted one lawyer then that lawyer may have laid out what a divorce would look like to her. Typically family law attorneys can look at income, length of marriage, children and give a rough ballpark estimate of what the typical divorce would look like in your area. They know the judges and what normally happens there. This can happen on a first consult pretty easily.

If this happened before you found out about the affair then she was examining her options. How much alimony she would get with a marriage ending due to an affair. How much custody she could expect to get. What life would look like after she ran off with the fantasy.

A lawyer might have painted a very realistic picture that she did not like at all. She may have weighed her options and decided you were the better bet. If you’re a business owner then she might see that she’s entitled to half the value of the business, but that gets super complicated.

If this is the case, it might have woken her up or she may be cynically playing her options. Perhaps a little of both. She’s also almost fifty, a stay at home mom, with almost grown kids and few marketable skills. It’s unlikely she finds someone that will support her like you have. And with an affair she might not be looking at the alimony that she thinks she’s entitled to. She may be making a play to stay in the marriage based on practical considerations. In other words, she may be riding out the marriage until she’s in a better situation to get what she wants. Or she may want the marriage. Seeing a lawyer sometimes makes things very real, very quickly. The reasons for her actions now may be exceedingly complicated and untangling that may be too much to deal with right now.

Her sudden about face on the marriage might be real. It might also be a ploy. I don’t know. But here are the basic things I can tell you based on the objective elements of your story.

1.) she is capable of lying to you and manipulating you for an extended period. This is a fact.

2.) she has used this capability recently in a very hurtful manner.

3.) a sticking point for me was the fear of stds. It’s objective. She was willing to put your health at risk for her fun. In this context it shows the depth of her ability to rationalize a selfish action.

4.) if she consulted a lawyer there are limited reasons for doing so. She was either concerned about being caught by some external factor she could not control. Or she was preparing to leave you and got a wake up call when it got real. Or she was set on leaving you but didn’t like what her life would look like afterward. (Maybe I’m missing something here, but it seems those are the only options.)

What I can tell you, without a doubt, is that you need your own consultation with a good family law attorney that can give you legal advice. This is step one. It’s important. Very important.

On one hand, it gives you knowledge that you don’t currently have. Personally, I would do this without informing her. On the other hand, if stuff does go south you have a relationship with someone that can represent your interests quickly.

If I had to guess - and this is a shot in the dark guess - your WW thought she was going to be found out somehow. She consulted a lawyer to see what it would look like when it happened. The picture painted didn’t please her at all. She decided that she wanted her marriage - for whatever reason - and is doing everything right to fix it. Whether this is heartfelt or cynical is almost impossible to discern.

It’s also fully possible that sitting in a lawyers office was the wake up call she needed to invest in her marriage.

This forum talks about the ‘why’ of the affair often. For me, with wayward spouses that want to save the marriage all of a sudden, my bigger question is why they want to save it? Are you being played or is it sincere? That’s the biggest question off the bat for me. It is big because it allows you a greater clarity if it’s something YOU want to save too.

Again, just talk to a lawyer. It’ll take the mystery out of the choice you will have to make soon.

posts: 71   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2018
id 8547226
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 particle (original poster new member #74493) posted at 4:51 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

I want to keep iterating that I am reading all responses and I respond with what immediately speaks to me at the moment.

Waggingthedog -

One of the first things I asked, other than the obvious was why she had such a 180 change of heart in 12 hours, why our marriage and me were so important to her at this moment. I didn't really ask "why did you do it?" I asked and focused on "why are you back"?" I have asked this over and over, mostly to hear it, but also to find consistency.

I've gotten consistency, way too many tears and sobbing so I have to stop her doing that to communicate more (because it's fucking not about her) but consistent answers nevertheless.

I think, outside of the love I feel for her, this was the only "reason" I even considered having her back in the house.

The short of it was (NOT EXCUSES and this is from her, not my analyzing) she realized it was all false, all her plans, all her "reasons". after we had our bad night and she got caught, after me explaining what I thought happened and then what was going to happen to her life from that point on, she realized that instead of being happy being away from someone she had believed she no longer loved, my catching her, seeing me upset and truly hurt in real life, knowing our kids would be upset and see what she had done reality struck. I do not know yet if this included realizing or believing the OM wasn't truly worthy, or I was, unsure but I know part of it had to be sentimental.

I do not know if someone can love someone else and do this kind of thing, it would never enter my mind, it's alien, and I have a very hard time believing it, but I cannot see into someone else's mind. All I know right now is that she is the woman I met, the woman I married right now, she is "back" and I have to find the courage and strength to push and push really hard because I absolutely do realize the reckoning has to come it all has to come out, otherwise it's just all for naught.

I absolutely realize that there is truth in once a cheater, I also realize I an desperate right now and I am not entirely ready to face the demons that are inevitably coming, and that's bad. It's also way too fast, even I know this, it is a whirlwind of I love you. It's kind of crazy and I am sure so many have been in this situation before which is both promising because it could be real and obviously terrifying because it could be fake.

The wonderful people here have punched large holes in my façade and I am grateful, every time I come here I see a little more clear (I think) and it gives me resolve. But if I come at this that everything she now says and everything she will say in the future is a lie, there is literally no point.

I just need more resolve and courage to really dig. It would probably be helpful if she didn't burst into tears whenever I mention something and just keep telling me how sorry she is. Self pity is not what I need. And that has sort of changed? I asked her some questions last night, she broke down and I said "stop, you're not helping me" and she stopped, and we talked more, so progress.

How do I get her to truly understand how I feel? Does anyone have any advice on that, I need her to see it every moment of the day for at least a while. She says she understands but she can't possibly understand. I know her writing it all down will trigger some of it, but how can she understand my actual ache and pain?

That said clearer chain of events:

She was becoming much more distant, increasing greatly the last few days before that night (which was just two weeks ago). I checked the digital and found the first digital motel receipt (of many). She had been looking for apartments, looking for iPhone messages deletion finality, and job hunting (although that might have been unrelated as she just recently got the job she has). It all clicked.

She had a plan, a plan that involved NOT getting caught and leaving me. SHE was going to leave, not ask me to leave, she was going to leave. Called her home, during the time it took her to come home all the pieces fell into place for me and after she admitted it and we had words, I laid it on the line for her. (I was angry at that point, distraught but angry) I told her, against her non admission, that she had a plan and I told her in no uncertain terms that our kids would know, would resent her and they would definitely rather live with me than some shitty small apartment with a new fake dad coming around. There is no uncertainty around that fact. I offered her a settlement, she could have just left for good, she could have had half of everything no muss no fuss. She might get "less" because of the affair, but she could have signed a no fault, because at that moment I was ready to print, download and sign.

She chose to come back the next morning and plead.

She did consult, just consult a lawyer, this was a week before the night, she did not give any real details, she did not lay out any plans, so she did not meet with one, did not get any concrete information on what she thought she could get, I don't think it had anything to do with money. I think and believe she truly cared about not hurting ME financially, for whatever that is worth. In fact when I also offered to split the proceeds of the house, she seemed shocked and said she would never make me sell or leave my home and this was in the heat of the moment. So money, not really a factor. I think it was more just getting away with it at that point. Perhaps... perhaps to spare me.

Then she told him she didn't need a lawyer anymore but thanks. This was a week after we had gotten back together and after the lawyers check in (for anticipated business I suppose) So she quickly inquired about services, 2 weeks before, had not followed up, then a week after that night, responded to a ping and said basically she didn't need services.

Now, to me, in my fragile state that tells me she is no longer interested in anything to do with divorce and the plan was not only not well thought out, it was also not committed to.

So to sum that up, from my perspective, (and confirmed without direct suggestions/prompting from her) She had been unhappy, she did not communicate, she was unhappy with how her life turned out. Not me... her life. I tried my best and once we had the means due to my business, offered to put her through school and be the stay at home person (which I did). She gained confidence but was wooed by someone. For some reason, she still hadn't gotten out of the funk, perhaps because she was older now and school was very hard on her (the actual classwork) but she got through it with my support and an affair. During all this she was starting to think she could just be happy outside the marriage with a professional job and it snowballed. Then when reality came crashing down, she says it was all a self lie and she did love me, I was a good man.

That's how I see it, might not be true, but it's how I see it. They are not excuses as the actions are inexcusable and I have to decide, not her, if this is still worth it. I do not know what next week brings, I do not know if the anger stage will make me tell her to get the fuck out and never come back. It's possible, I just do not know right now.

I don't know a lot for sure, all of the things that have happened point towards true remorse, I know I am not in the right frame of mind to make that determination but it seems so real. If it is, I still have to get past what is inevitably coming. I am not sure how I am going to handle it.

I have to ask a lot more questions.

posts: 44   ·   registered: May. 29th, 2020
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Newlifeisgreat ( member #71308) posted at 5:03 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

Is there ANYTHING that she could do that would make you say that THAT is the last straw???? Are there no sins that are unforgivable??????

Get angry and use that anger to get yourself out of the Hell that she has put you in!!!!!

Betrayed SpouseShe cheated and I filed immediately upon discovering. She never even suspected that I knew until the moment she was served with reason being AdulteryDivorced 9/18Now VERY happy with new life, 0 regrets

posts: 664   ·   registered: Aug. 17th, 2019
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beenthereinco ( member #56409) posted at 6:18 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

Hi particle,

As I said early on in this thread I think you are doing fine. I read with some worry for you that your WW had a plan going to leave you before you found out because that makes her turn-around somewhat hard to trust as I am sure you are aware. I have seen on here though that some Waywards simply do not believe that the BS will forgive them and they would rather not try to deal with the hard work. You say she was becoming increasingly distant right before which is consistent with what you are saying here. She had gotten to the point where she was leaving and she quit trying to be as circumspect. To me the fact that she contacted an attorney, started looking for a place to live and started planning for her new life would really give me reason to pause on the Reconciliation talk though and I'd need to see some sustained actions like she has already done for some time before I felt comfortable that I wanted to stay with her. She was 3/4 of the way out the door. She'd have to prove to me she was 100% back in for some time.

Also earlier you asked about what consequences look like. I think the biggest consequence that she has to live with and accept is the loss of whatever benefit of the doubt she had before. You know she is capable of cheating on you. It didn't seem to have been a possibility to you before. She has to accept, without complaint, that you are going to question her for some time. You are going to ask things like "Why are you home later than usual?", "Who are you texting right now?", "Who did you see at the gym?", "Did you and OM go to this restaurant/see this movie, watch this TV show, listen to this music?", etc. She has to answer each time without saying you are controlling, that she needs to be trusted, that she needs her space. That is a specific consequence. When you need this sort of reinforcement, and you will, she needs to give it to you with a smile and a hug and not a complaint. That's a consequence of what she has done.

posts: 1429   ·   registered: Dec. 13th, 2016
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Unsure2019 ( member #71350) posted at 6:25 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

Particle,

Thanks for the post answering most everyone. While some of our posts my seem harsh, we’ve all been there and many of us have made major mistakes in the beginning that were not only painful, but also caused us to make poor decisions that many times undermined the outcome we really were trying to achieve. There are dozens of people here trying to share their collective experience with you. Aside from the ones that are encouraging you to D right now, LISTEN TO THEM.

Now, while there are some encouraging signs in you last post, there are also some very large red flags. From your description, WW deciding she wanted to come back is really more about what she realized she would lose and how her reputation with kids, family and friends would be tarnished. It appears it was more about this than it was about losing you. Also, most WWs don not plan to leave the husbands for the OM unless there is a strong emotion bond/pull. It is almost impossible for WWs to turn this off overnight. If either one of you are thinking this is the case, THINK AGAIN. This is just one of the reasons I suggested in an earlier post you demand WW write a detailed timeline and then read it to you. This can go a long way in breaking the emotional bond that’s still there and having her get at a deep level what the A really was.

Finally, there are two threads on here that I would encourage you to read. The first is from “Beyond Rage”. He has commented on your posts and can provide you a link. The way he handled his situation is one of the best I’ve seen. More importantly, how his WW handled it and what she did will give you a good idea what you need to be looking for from your WW. The second thread is from “Walloped”. There is a link to his thread on his bio page, but I can’t find it. Maybe some one can point you to it. Here again, he handled his situation extremely well. But, again, it’s what his WW did that is important and again would give you a good blue print on what your WW should be doing. As a matter of information, both of these guys successfully R’d, so that should give you some hope.

posts: 207   ·   registered: Aug. 21st, 2019   ·   location: California
id 8547271
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Waggingthedog ( member #65793) posted at 6:57 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

No one here should encourage a particular result over another. Only you know your life, and how you wish to live it. There is no judgment for whatever you decide, so long as it makes you happy.

What people here do know, all too well, are the struggles they went through going down the path you find yourself on now. Not all the lessons they learned may apply in your case, others may.

I don’t know enough to give you anything that’s helpful emotionally. My situation was different. I ended up divorcing. My rational was that I didn’t like who I was becoming to her. I don’t want to be controlling and I didn’t want to spend my life being controlling of a person I cared about while her heart belonged to another man. And I didn’t want to model that behavior to my child.

Right now you’re in the shock phase. It does not leave for a time. The problem is, in the shock phase, sometimes things happen that have legal ramifications down the line if you’re not careful. Having to navigate this while in the shock phase is really, really difficult.

Again. There are reasons to be wary here. I’m not saying that you should be wary or not, just that there’s evidence to be wary here. (The sudden change of heart can be real or fake). You’re trying to gauge if it’s real. I was obsessed with that question.

She may be truly sorry and want to change. She may be working some scheme. There is no one here that can tell you what’s in her head. You would be best positioned to see this, but, like all of us, sometimes we don’t see what is going on until it’s too late. None of us are Ms. Cleo. None of us know what someone else is thinking or what the future holds.

A post nuptial agreement is a good thing to consider. I had one. However, I looked at it differently than how it’s portrayed on here. I didn’t view mine as punitive. There were no infidelity clauses. I didn’t take everything. One of the lawyers I talked to in this area that specialized in family law advised me not to sign it but rather go for blood. I didn’t do that. I had some things I wanted and I was willing to go nuclear for, but I didn’t want that type of a fight. It would have been bad for the kid.

I looked at it as splitting assets so she knew what she would get and what I would get. Why? Because I wanted to know if she was in this for love, for me, and not because she was afraid of what I’d do. I gave it some time to see.

Unfortunately I found an answer.

Here is part of my story...part of it. Six months in, after it looked like she was doing everything right, I found out she lied about contact with the other man. When she had continued contact with the last partner and lied about it I was done in my head. Our marriage counselor asked me to think of it as a mistake, but I couldn’t. She’d seen what this had done to me and a phone call with her lover was more important than our family. I still staggered on for a time but it was the death blow. That broke me in a way I can’t convey with words. I ultimately filed for divorce, in part, to break that thing in her head. To see a final answer. But also to get away from the pain. She ran back to him and I had my answer reaffirmed. I felt free. She didn’t love me. And that’s ok. Ultimately she broke it off with him and found someone else.

Because of the post nuptial agreement, there wasn’t fighting. I just knew she didn’t love me, and that was that. Now we are decent co-parents to our child. So, I guess it worked out.

I never saw her reading a book I didn’t tell her to read. I recommended that she get advice here but she never posted nor did she ever seek out any other advice that I know of outside of marriage counseling. I asked for a polygraph test and she initially agreed but then revoked it right when I found out she was still in contact. I never saw her take a proactive action other than most of what I demanded. She did what I said. I wanted her to want to do whatever she wanted. Maybe that was the dividing line.

For the first six months though... she did everything right, at least on the surface.

The post nuptial gave me a degree of certainty that she was acting how she wanted to act: there should have been no more fear from her. And, if she wanted to leave we wouldn’t get in a protracted court battle. Ultimately, when I saw she no longer loved me, I pulled the trigger. In going through the divorce I could see she didn’t love me. It was confirmed when she ran back to the guy.

I sense you’re a bit like me. You’re looking for objective evidence of someone else’s feelings. It really comes out in your writing that you are very hurt, but proceed logically. Your answers will come with time.

In the meantime, you need to protect yourself. You don’t know the situation you’re dealing with. No one on here does either. Follow the Boy Scouts motto... be prepared. I would talk to a lawyer and find out your options. Have the knowledge to avoid pitfalls.

Once you have that knowledge you can at least make informed decisions and you will have an advocate to protect your interests should you need it.

posts: 71   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2018
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fareast ( member #61555) posted at 7:53 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

Particle:

Beenthereinco provided good insight on the type of consequences your WW will have to accept moving forward without defensiveness. From what you have described in that period leading up to your confrontation on dday, including visiting with an attorney, your WW was acting on the fantasy she had concocted in her head. Magnifying any real or imagined miscommunications or disagreements into the narrative that you did not love her and ignored her. All untrue.

When confronted with your reaction and visible hurt, and being banished her fantasy collapsed and she realized how wrong she had been. Although it is unusual for a WS’s fantasy to destruct so quickly it is certainly possible. Just because it is unusual to see it here does not mean it doesn’t happen.

You know your WW better than any of us. Be vigilant. Be skeptical. But don’t be afraid to accept what you see before you eyes. Trust your gut. There is a saying here: “ Take the advice you can use and leave the rest.” Take care of you. You are still very near your dday. Your emotions are still raw. Time is your ally. Watch her actions and not her words. Good luck.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 8:23 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

I'm sorry if you answered this but: how old are your kids?

Among other things, characteristics that enable her to cheat are: selfish, entitled, deceitful, and lacking in empathy for you.

Take all the time you need to decide 'who' she really is and whether you can trust her again and/or want to remain married to someone that could do this to you.

Consider saying no to HB, move to another BR and distance yourself until you can regain your equilibrium.

IMO tears are generally an attempt to manipulate you and/or divert attention from your pain to hers. For example, that's how a child responds.

Consider writing down your questions and having her respond in writing. Then subsequent face to face discussion can focus on her answers and ask for further details.

Finally, a timeline would provide her IC with many opportunities to get to her whys by asking her: what were you thinking when you planned X .... or when you did X.... or after you did X?

posts: 2422   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
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squid ( member #57624) posted at 9:35 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

particle,

All I know right now is that she is the woman I met, the woman I married right now, she is "back" and I have to find the courage and strength to push and push really hard because I absolutely do realize the reckoning has to come it all has to come out, otherwise it's just all for naught.

I wrote something eerily close to this on my personal profile shortly after I joined SI. This was very early on after Dday when my XWW seemingly did a complete 180 and was doing everything right. Very similar to bold]WaggingTheDog[/bold]'s experience. But cut to about 4 months later and her AP reached out to her. His contact was supposed to have been blocked and deleted from her phone. Apparently not. I could not prove that she was contacting him again. But it did look like she was stepping outside of the marriage again. Probably a different "love" interest, but the evidence was there. Even in the face of it, she lied and gaslighted. I waited around in limbo for almost 2 years before I finally pulled the trigger and filed.

I am not saying this to persuade you to D. That is entirely up to you. But her doing everything right does not guarantee anything. So as far as getting legal advice goes, protecting yourself first should be high on your list of priorities.

You need to get it out of your head that her "old self" is back. In fact, her true self is the one that rationalized stabbing you in the back for over a year. This duality is going to gnaw at you forever if you don't confront it.

The same goes with the timeline. The portion of your life that should have been inextricably interwoven with her was actually shared with another person. There is now a huge gap in your reality. One that only she can convey to you. Any perceived weak spot that you sense will again gnaw at your soul until it becomes as clear as reality.

I don't know if it was mentioned yet but there is a post in The Healing Library called "Joseph's Letter". I will link it below.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/joseph.asp

It frames the importance of why you need to know. Maybe you could print it out and read it with your WW.

From my experience, sobbing and hysterical bonding are forms of manipulation. Once that goes away you are still faced with the stark reality of what she did and what she is capable of doing again. Her work is to fix herself in order to be a safe partner for you.

I agree that exposure and a pre-nup are BARE MINIMUM requirements if she is really 100% all in. Those are basic consequences for destroying your marriage and putting the emotional well-being of you and your kids in harm's way. Any push back would indicate a lack of remorse. Tears and sobbing are almost always just selfish "look how awful I am" bullshit. Just lip service.

Remember, 2-5 years is the normal time frame until R is considered successful. 2-5 years of consistent actions from her. You are not in R at the moment. Think of this as the testing phase.

Also, I hadn't read before of her consulting an attorney. That put's a whole different spin on things, in my opinion. Be very wary.

BH
D-Day 2.19.17
Divorced 12.10.18

This isn’t what any of us signed up for. But it is the hand that we have been dealt. Thus, we must play it.

posts: 2582   ·   registered: Feb. 26th, 2017   ·   location: Central Florida
id 8547315
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 10:16 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

I think it's very important that you find out if she contacted OM the night you found out, the night she left.

Phone records won't confirm it. She would have gone to his house, or met him somewhere.

I think you should have her take a polygraph.

It's sounding, to me, that OM broke it off with her, the night you found out,because he wasn't in it for a relationship,just sex.

That she contacted an attorney, and was looking for an apartment, then a week later,you found out, and she only recently told the attorney she wouldn't need his services, says a lot.

The tears sound like they are for her,and she is mourning the OM. I'm sorry.

A woman who goes so far as to consult with an attorney, doesn't suddenly wake up simply because her husband found out. A woman who consults an attorney is checked out of the marriage. And her husband's pain doesn't simply snap her back..because..gently..

she doesn't care about your pain. She was planning to divorce. This was an exit affair, that once discovered, and the OM threw her aside..has her scrambling to cover her ass. It didn't suddenly become real to her simply because you caught her. She didn't suddenly think about what she would lose with you, or how this would affect the kids. She had already considered all of that, because she had already taken steps to divorce.

posts: 3738   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8547323
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BeyondRage ( member #71328) posted at 10:25 PM on Sunday, May 31st, 2020

Particle

Read this again from HellFire

I think it's very important that you find out if she contacted OM the night you found out, the night she left.

Phone records won't confirm it. She would have gone to his house, or met him somewhere.

I think you should have her take a polygraph.

It's sounding, to me, that OM broke it off with her, the night you found out,because he wasn't in it for a relationship,just sex.

That she contacted an attorney, and was looking for an apartment, then a week later,you found out, and she only recently told the attorney she wouldn't need his services, says a lot.

The tears sound like they are for her,and she is mourning the OM. I'm sorry.

A woman who goes so far as to consult with an attorney, doesn't suddenly wake up simply because her husband found out. A woman who consults an attorney is checked out of the marriage. And her husband's pain doesn't simply snap her back..because..gently..

she doesn't care about your pain. She was planning to divorce. This was an exit affair, that once discovered, and the OM threw her aside..has her scrambling to cover her ass. It didn't suddenly become real to her simply because you caught her. She didn't suddenly think about what she would lose with you, or how this would affect the kids. She had already considered all of that, because she had already taken steps to divorce.

This is coming to you from a woman, not a BH, who is one of the best advice givers here.

You situation has taken a dramatic turn as far asrecommendations. What started out, without you giving the details. as a little fling of sport fucking by your WW, apparently has been a lot more, and as HellFire said, I would bet when she left that night her and the OM had a big conversation and the NC communication wound up for show.

There is no way to prove how quickly a woman banging the same OM for over a year can flip the switch from regret at getting caught to remorse, but her actions prior to getting caught make it highly likely that what has occurred is that OM had something to do with her "light bulb moment of total commitment to you.

You are making a big mistake if you do not throw the polygraph in the mix, even if you have no intention of doing it, which you should

[This message edited by BeyondRage at 5:24 PM, May 31st (Sunday)]

Me- 49M
WW- 48F
Kids- 23,21,20,18 all female
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=640592

posts: 478   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2019   ·   location: Southeast USA
id 8547325
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Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 12:14 AM on Monday, June 1st, 2020

She was becoming much more distant, increasing greatly the last few days before that night (which was just two weeks ago). I checked the digital and found the first digital motel receipt (of many). She had been looking for apartments, looking for iPhone messages deletion finality, and job hunting (although that might have been unrelated as she just recently got the job she has). It all clicked.

She had a plan, a plan that involved NOT getting caught and leaving me. SHE was going to leave, not ask me to leave, she was going to leave.

Well all this changes everything, your WW had decided to leave you, the only reason she probably didn't is the fact that she got caught, that was NOT her plan, she was planning to just leave you and would have probably cited other problems in the M, after she left, she was most likely going to introduce OM to the children as someone she just met after the separation or D (very common in exit As). She didn't like the fact she was going to be exposed as a cheater to her children, this is PRECISELY WHY you should tell them TODAY, if the only reason she came back was to avoid exposure and that's all it's preventing her from leaving then your M is now a sham, if so, cut her loose, but if you want to know if she would stay even after exposure to the children and family, the only way you would know for sure is if you actually did it, of course we recommend exposure for other things as well like I explained to you before, for some reason you have not addressed this, don't be scared to expose her, you did nothing wrong, and like I said previously, the children were betrayed too and she should apologize to them, for maximum impact exposure should be done WITHOUT WARNING, let her face the music (consequences), hopefully she won't blame you or the M for her reason to cheat when she's facing the kids/parents.

Finally I agree with others and you should slow down with the R thing, again, consult an attorney ASAP to know your legal options. Your WW has been planning her exit for a while now and took real action to achieve that goal, looking for a place to leave, consulting a lawyer, job seeking, deleting messages etc., and for her to have just turned on a dime and be remorseful is not only difficult to believe but unlikely, what you're most likely seeing is REGRET of GETTING CAUGHT, so slow down and be VERY careful, now more than ever I recommend you read all those texts/emails and also demand a polygraph and watch her reaction.

posts: 2447   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8547350
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Bigheart2018 ( member #63544) posted at 1:13 AM on Monday, June 1st, 2020

Dear Particle,

I once held a gavel in my hand listening to attorneys arguing their case on behalf of their client. I have therefore developed a critical eye and ear by reading between the lines. I was about to offer a post but there is no need now because Hellfire and BeyondRage have voiced my every thought.

Your wife has checked out of the marriage and I also agree that she called her AP once she left the home and was dumped by her AP. Your wife, therefore, moved into desperation mode and love-bombed you without wavering.

Your wife has created a strategy to exit the marriage and also approached her attorney to gather information on all possible options regarding her monetary proceeds she will receive from you.

It is my opinion that it was an exit affair that went sour once her AP dumped her and your wife realize, she was only used for sex. She was operating with a strategy and you must develop one.

Please be careful and vigilant.

Best,

Bigheart

[This message edited by Bigheart2018 at 7:20 PM, May 31st (Sunday)]

posts: 348   ·   registered: Apr. 24th, 2018   ·   location: Southwest PA
id 8547363
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Mene ( member #64377) posted at 1:52 AM on Monday, June 1st, 2020

I agree with the previous posters.

It may sound harsh to you and please I don’t mean to offend but only to help you that you were Plan B when she met with her attorney and up until the boyfriend dumped her that night.

Her actions over the next few months will determine a lot.

It’s going to be a long haul. Be patient. Hydrate. Exercise. Focus.

Life wasn’t meant to be fair...

posts: 826   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2018   ·   location: Cyberland
id 8547367
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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 3:08 AM on Monday, June 1st, 2020

Hey it is still early days, just take a breath, think, breath, ask, breath, gather all the facts, not just what you are being fed from her. I can feel the frustration and anger; unfortunately it will get worse.

Very good advice have been offered by all.

Some see more than others, they are just highlighting what they see. Remember all the hurtful things she said on DD. A few hours later, whoop’s I’m bad, didn’t mean that.

You are on the spot there, you know WW better than I. But, the consultation of a lawyer, before, has very deep meanings, onus or operation of mind ( I am out of the marriage). OM most likely dumped your WW on DD. Hence the complete reversal of her wants. They must have communicated some way.

To remain in a marriage she didn’t want due to the shame she would feel if your children knew the truth of her actions. Plus the hurt she saw in your eyes. Sorry, I feel there is more, a lot more.

Self preservation? I don’t know.

I am big on R if both parties are keen and the WS will do the hard yards. Take your time, consult with a lawyer regardless of her tears.

Never hurts to know what your rights and responsibilities are if you can’t get over the betrayal.

The other thing I might add is time, don’t commit to anything relationship wise for say six to 12 months, as that is how long she betrayed you. Also if the A was physical for 12 months then the emotional side was about three to six months longer.

One day at a time.

Buffer

[This message edited by Buffer at 9:11 PM, May 31st (Sunday)]

Buffer

posts: 1202   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8547378
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Unsure2019 ( member #71350) posted at 4:18 AM on Monday, June 1st, 2020

Particle,

LISTEN to Beyond Rage and HellFire as well as the others. As much as you want to believe it, your WW is not ” back”. I believe you’re being played. WW's tears and self-depreciation are not for you. She’s trying to save herself and herself only.

Here’s some thoughts for you to consider.

1. You need to read her texts now. This will for sure give you a window in to what she was planning, thinking and willing to do. I get the feeling that you’re reluctant to read these because they could very well blow up the narrative that you’re telling yourself.

2. You’re giving her points for unfriending a co-conspirator and another group on Facebook. I would not believe this for a minute. Your WW probably has figured out that you could very well demand access to all her electronic devices and apps. SHE IS SANITIZING HER FACEBOOK PAGE IN CASE YOU DO ASK.

3. You need to check WW’s phone timeline – if she hasn’t deleted it yet. This will be invaluable information to cross reference what she says and what her written timeline depicts. It can tell you volumes.

Finally, I think you are way to invested in believing WW so you can have your M back. As many say here, you have to be willing to risk losing your M to save it. Start taking the action that needs to be taken. The longer you wait, the harder and worse it will be.

posts: 207   ·   registered: Aug. 21st, 2019   ·   location: California
id 8547393
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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 5:58 AM on Monday, June 1st, 2020

Particle,

Had a quick read through your thread, and it looks like you have been given quite a lot of great advice.

I am just going to rewind back a bit about your question of how you could make your WW understand the pain that you are going through. This will just give her an inkling.

All that needs to be done is for her to write down a very detailed timeline of her affair.

Once the timeline is done, make her substitute her role with you, and her AP becomes a woman.

Firstly, the actual committing of the timeline down 'on paper', will force the WS to remember every little dirty deed they did. All the darkness they harboured will then come to light. The WS will have to face their own betrayals.

Then, by making them read it, but as if it were the BS that was doing all the things they wrote, it will put the WS into the shoes of the BS, albeit briefly.

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 903   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8547403
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