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My husband and I are 4years+ from DDay. Happily reconciling. The process of recovery is slow and steady.

We are currently co-reading a Christian book called "it's not suppose to be like this" by Lysa Terkeurst. It outlines her journey and spiritual recovery after infidelity entered her marriage.

We have been discussing as we go through each chapter. One of the things that came up in discussion between us was the idea of separating if you want to save the marriage. Is it a good idea or not ect. My husband mentioned how he felt it was a bad idea to seperate.

We are past this point of needing separation, but I still feel shame in not going scorched earth right after DD. Although I did not want to seperate at all and wanted to remain married, I feel like I was injured in the beginning process after DD. Trickle Truth for months and a broken contact the week after. I gave him two days to decide if he wanted to stay or go and He slept on the floor for a month, but we did not seperate. I wonder if I would have healed better if I had kicked him out.

He feels like I pulled him out of the fire and if I had told him to leave he would not have been able to get his life back in order and he may not have come back. He feels like living seperately is giving the wayward opportunity to cheat more and make things worse. There was an addiction element to his infidelity and he feels like it would have been worse for him. He thanks me for being there as he clawed his way back to real life. He says that it took him a while to get his head back on straight. (Out of the fog etc. )

But I just keep feeling like I could have been stronger. He clearly crossed boundaries.

So have you had this discussion with your spouse? What are the thoughts in regards to separating when you ultimately want to stay married.

[This message edited by sleeplessincali at 6:33 PM, February 6th (Thursday)]

I am reading that book. My insisting on the final separation after 4 months of back and forth in when the corner was turned for us. You have no reason to feel shame; you did nothing wrong.

My partner and I separated for 3 months after the affair came out. He initially walked out on me, but by the next day begged to be able to come back. I couldn't stand to look at him I was so devastated. We were apart for 3 months. He just moved back in at the beginning of December, and I just found out that the affair continued the whole time we were apart. Major burn. I have no idea what would have happened if I had let him back in the house. I knew he was having an affair, there were a number of things that told me so, I just didn't have proof. Maybe I would have known if he tried to continue it while living at home, no idea.

There are times when I look back on the early days and think "I should have just...". And then I remember something that a pastor had said in a sermon several years ago.

Don't should on yourself.

While it's a helpful practice at times to look at the past in order to prepare yourself for handling a similar situation differently in the future, dwelling on it to the point of beating yourself up about it is far from helpful. None of us has a deLorean, a magic phone booth, or Pym particles and access to the quantum realm.

So, while there are things we wish we had or hadn't done, we can't go back and change that now. We can only move forward from where we're at.

Don't should on yourself.

Love it!

My IC says I need to work on self compassion and self forgiveness. I am having a hard time for forgiving myself for all the decisions I made surrounding my H.

Our story is the opposite. We were physically separated because of work when my H cheated. We were not emotionally or maritally(?) separated. Dday1 for me was about a week after my H came home. I firmly believe my H would not have cheated if we had been living together. It was just too easy for him while we were separated.

I can't say whether or not separating after dday is better or worse for R. I can see how it could allow the cheating to continue more easily. I can also see how it might make it more difficult to build those lines of communication. Either way, the BP needs to be strong and resilient and decisive.

I can also see how it might sometimes be necessary. If you've got a cheater who won't stop, it's probably best for the BP to separate. The purpose would be for the BOs mental health, but it could also knock some sense into the cheater.

Not familiar with the book, but I also sometimes struggle with whether separating would have been better for my self-respect, if nothing else, even knowing that I wanted to try to reconcile.

There was an addiction element to his infidelity and he feels like it would have been worse for him.

And this is part of why I didn't. (Not wanting our young kids to know something was wrong was the other part). If I'd kicked him out, even temporarily, he would have gone to her. And the fog didn't start to lift until he was a few weeks out from seeing or talking to her. I think he'd have come to a revelation within a month or two on his own, once reality set in, but it might have been too late for me by then.

I read Lysa's book, and have seen her speak recently. She's an impressive woman with the amount of grace and love she extended to her husband. I'd love her husband to write a book and hear his side of things as well.

The reason they separated seems to be because her WH did NOT stop the behaviors (affair plus substance abuse). I think they were separated for a couple of years. So I think that is a major point in deciding whether or not to separate for many people. Whether or not there is change in behaviors or if there is danger.

We actually discussed a "therapeutic" separation with our MC a few months ago. She brought it up because I was so traumatized by DDay 2 (TT of the PA) that I was finding it hard to function. She suggested separating as a way for me to get space and clarity.

I shot that idea down. First, and foremost because I felt (and feel) like my WH was not dangerous to me at the time. I was not in physical danger, nor was he gaslighting me about the sex anymore. All of the actual threats were gone. Second, I have two kids that are in middle and high school. Seperating would scare the shit out of them (they know about the physical A bc of DDay 2). I don't want to do that unless it's the absolute last resort. Third, because I was in (and still am some days) such a horrible place, I *needed* my WH at home to help me pick up the slack both with everyday things and with emotional support for the kids (and me). As far as what my WH thought? He didn't want a separation but would have done whatever I asked (and still would) if we thought it would help me heal.

All that said, I did kick my WH out on DDay. He went to a hotel that night. The next day he called OW from the hotel and she offered to pick him up. He declined. He begged me to come home. He later told me that my visceral reaction and my kicking him out were major factors in getting his head out of his ass. He did end his physical relationship after DDay (much to her chagrin) but since they worked together it took about 6 weeks for it to sink in that he had to go entirely NC (it took her 2 years to figure that out). Had I not let him back in to the house, I truly think he would have been sucked back into a relationship with her because he was so filled with shame and felt so badly about himself that he would have done anything to make that feeling go away (which is why he had the A in the first place).

Side note: If you aren't aware, Lysa runs Proverbs31 Ministries and they did a fabulous series of podcasts called "Therapy and Theology" that discusses infidelity. She, her therapist and a biblical scholar are on it. I have found quite a bit of comfort and hope from her story. (She has also guested on a few podcasts in the past couple of years and those were great as well.)

[This message edited by TX1995 at 9:41 AM, February 7th (Friday)]

.... A pastor had said in a sermon several

ago.

Don't should on yourself.

While it's a helpful practice at times to look at the past in order to prepare yourself for handling a similar situation differently in the future, dwelling on it to the point of beating yourself up about it is far from helpful. None of us has a deLorean, a magic phone booth, or Pym particles and access to the quantum realm.

Captain Roger's I grew up in the 80s and have two boys who love Marty McFly and Marvel so the wording in your response resonated. I spend too much time should'ing on my self. Thank you for helping me see this.

I am familiar with the work of Proverbs 31 miniseries, and want to second the recommendations for the podcasts. Someone here recommended them to me recently. after DD I read Uninvited and that book was helpful too. I think they are perfect bookends to each other.

He feels like living seperately is giving the wayward opportunity to cheat more and make things worse. There was an addiction element to his infidelity and he feels like it would have been worse for him.

The counter to this is the many cheaters who discover just what it is they were doing when forced to confront it alone. I found SI about the same time BW started our separation, so I don’t know if I could have learned as much as I did if I had just started coming here, but still fumbling around R with my BW...

Bottom line is I believe cheaters have proven the ability to “offload” personal shortcomings as someone else’s doing. I think the presence of the victim that I had already proven I was capable of blaming would have remained too easy a target if we’d remained together. Funny because when I started this I was going to propose that your FCH wasn’t giving himself enough credit saying he couldn’t have done it alone. But I think I reinforced that sentiment for myself, but in the broader context of blaming, which I think lies fundamentally beneath cheating as a behavior.

I am a firm believer in separation because it removes the “distraction” of the M from the equation. The BS gets room to breathe and really assess if R is worth it. The WS faces the things they have done alone because they need to shoulder that load. I think the “might cheat more” discussion is playing the odds, separated or not.

None of us has a deLorean, a magic phone booth, or Pym particles and access to the quantum realm.

Which phone booth are you referring to? The blue English one? Or the glass one from San Dimas?

Both, Simplicity. 😁

Each situation is unique and there is no perfect answer.

Also... the situations are always terrible, and often even the "right" move comes with downfalls. Us BSes try to choose the lesser of evils.

Many times, separating IS the right move. It gets the BS out of harm's way, lets them heal independently without being accosted daily by the emotional trauma of an affair. However--separating often DOES make it easier for a WS to continue the A or escalate to worse behavior. They can hit rock bottom quicker. Sometimes they come to their senses extremely quickly, before engaging in any worse or ongoing behavior. But not always.

I've had multiple D-Days and handled them in multiple ways. We separated briefly. I did a hard 180 after doing the pick-me dance. I did a soft 180 for a later D Day.

We have to make the best decision for US in those times. And no matter what we do, we don't have control over WS's behavior. If you don't separate but undergo months or years of TT, waffling, WS taking half-ownership--but their A did actually stop after D Day... is that better than WS escalating their behavior after a 180 or separation, then hitting rock bottom?

Who knows? It's like asking which limb you'd prefer to have be cut off. I guess that's why I'm saying we make the best decision for us personally, and the hope of changing WS's behavior is a distant secondary goal.

[This message edited by TwiceWounded at 4:35 PM, February 7th (Friday)]

I want to stay married; but I'm also married to a recovering sex addict. Whether or not I stay married isn't really up to me.

We've already had two DDays.

A third DDay will result in separation as soon as we can swing it. An escalation of his behavior will result in a separation as soon as we can swing it.

I'm not interested in being in a marriage where I'm lied to for the majority of it. I'm not interested in dealing with the consequences of an escalation of behaviors.

It's not my job to pull my husband out of the fire. That's his.

My husband will get high regardless of our physical proximity to each other..he'll get high if I'm in the next room or 1000 miles away...if that's what he's heck bent on doing.

I can say that I was so far gone that if we separated, I am not really sure I would have chosen to change without her to support me and back me up. It was a foundation I needed when I got to the point that I was so disgusted by myself to be with myself I wanted it. Though during the time she had 180 me. We lived together, yet she lived a separate healthy life and I was being left behind and alone to sit with myself. It made a difference to me to see what was on the outskirts of my shit pool to work for. I wanted what she displayed.

Thank for FW for posting your perspectives.

It's not my job to pull my husband out of the fire. That's his.

True, and maybe I need to reflect on that. However I think for many waywards this is what DD feels like. They are finally able to get a glimpse of living in truth but unfortunately its at the cost of thier spouse. Husband reflects on the feeling that his soul was in grave danger and DD was the start of recovery...

This is a hard question. I think it depends on the situation, but while not separating definitely caused more trauma for me, it is what saved my WH. My husband had distorted and compartmentalized reality. If he had left, I truly believe he would have believed the lies he told himself so he could continue the affair. But I was there making him face it day after day. Like the original poster, it took my husband about a year to be completely out of the fog. It was hard for me but I kept thinking if I could get my “real” husband back it would be better for everyone. I saw how lost he was. I knew he would not be able to crawl out easily especially if he remained in some delusion. So I stayed for him and my children mostly. I wanted my husband back. I’m very glad I did despite the amount of pain it caused me. Now He is a better husband than I probably could have ever imagined. I’m glad I have him to enjoy our children as they grow up and to help with problems they encounter. He fully admits that it was my perseverance and hope that made him stay the course and believe it himself. I know some people think that believing you can save someone else is codependent but I believe I saved him and he believes that too. I’ve analyzed if we are codependent many times and I know we are not. We are both very independently content but really enjoy being together. We do depend on each other and we really want to be together but we both know we could make it alone. It wasn’t codependence that saved my husband, it was selflessness. I actually knew that my actions might have been in vane, but I stayed the course because I saw how out of control he was. Anyway that’s just my story. I’ve read enough here to know that my story is just mine and that there are way too many variables to apply what worked for us to anyone else.

Playing devil’s advocate here - let’s say you did tell him to leave. And he did.

Then what? You don’t know the outcome. He could have decided to continue the affair. In his mind he may have thought the marriage is over. Beyond repair.

I don’t think you should be thinking about whether you did the “right” thing. Do not second guess yourself. The end result is that you are happily reconciled.

Does it matter how you got there? I think it’s more important you are happy with the outcome.

I told my H to leave on dday2. False reconciliation and continued cheating and “I want a divorce” from him on dday2 was more than enough. He never actually left but knowing I made plans for him to leave was the wake up call he needed.

Most BS wish we would have done things differently. That’s life. Look forward not backwards.

WH suggested he would help me move out if I wanted to. This was about 6 months after dday2 and after the affair had resumed. He admitted later he felt like suggesting that was a way for me to leave because I wanted to and for him to feel better about my leaving. (It’s his house and it was before we met so I would always have been the one to leave).

It was all bullshit. Separating was just his way of wanting my miserable ass out of the house so he and his AP could have some (any) time outside of work together. Separating and making it “my idea” just alleviated his guilt. If I wanted to go then it was “better for me” and somehow he could feel okay about it. Honestly it’s been the last remaining issue for me with my leaving this year and doing it on my own terms...that he will “feel better about it” and there is nothing he should feel good about.

To me even if he weren’t still having the A and trying to R had been done honestly, separating wasn’t for me. It would have made me feel MORE in limbo and more anxious about an already very unknown future. The added burden of the financial side of it would have made it downright miserable. Maybe I am one of the few people for whom IHS has brought more clarity. That the contact has actually made me see clearer. Idk. For me separating would have never worked if we wanted to R. When I’m gone, I will really be gone.

EDIT: I just realized that I didn’t say a word about what may or may not have been better for him if we had been trying to R. I guess I really am moving on as honestly....I haven’t the slightest clue and I’m clearly not too concerned about it.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 9:10 PM, February 10th (Monday)]

I have struggled with similar guilt and shame. For a long time, I was ashamed that I didn't kick him out immediately after Dday. I felt weak and dependent because I chose to allow him to stay...add HB to that and it was a toxic cocktail for negative thoughts to enter my head about my apparent weakness.

Now, at over 5 years out, I know for a fact that had I "kicked him out" of the house, I would never have EVER believed him, even if it was true, that the A didn't continue. I believe that would have been so hard to deal with. Granted, the contact continued for a few weeks after Dday, but there was no physical contact. Had he left, I really believe he would have continued the A. And if he had left and went NC, I don't think I'd ever be able to believe him.

Just my two cents...