Just another weekend. I'm feeling a bit down, I was hanging out with the kids and I started to get sad considering all the upheaval that will occur soon. I set up some of the filters at my parents house yesterday. I also had the carpet guy come in and give an estimate. So there's movement there.
Marz
Your only good path now is a hard 180.
If not you’ll just get your headspace tied up in this meaningless bullshit.
The one thing NC brings is clarity. You are starting to see what you need (reality). Keep moving forward.
I mostly agree, although perhaps we agree 100%, but I know that I need to detach, detach, detach. I have to talk to her about kids, finances, and that sort of shit. I also have to talk to her about the upcoming Mediator stuff. Although I will wait a while before doing that.
I'm not sure if I mentioned it or not, but she has a problem with me going to my parents and doing the 50/50 split with them. I understand the one issue - my father is a smoker. It could mean that I don't stay there as long as I want to anyway, but that's the only issue she's brought up that I will actually consider, because it's legitimate.
Now, the other issue she's brought up, while crying (last week), was that my mother will turn the kids against her. She will spoil them and that she will bad mouth my STBXW. I'm not trying to set the kids against her and I've told her that. I have no desire to mess them up.
Stevesn
You did well.
Now go memorize what I said!!
Just kidding.
Thanks, I just don't know what I was thinking - it's like it didn't even pop into my head that she would try that.
I’m going to simplify it for you.
As long as you care for and think fondly about this other man and he is in our life in any way, you and I cannot be together.
It’s as simple as that.
I can definitely work with that.
If it were me, I’d slip her a piece of paper with those words on it. And when she brings it up I’d refer her back to the paper.
If its still true, then there is nothing more to discuss. Tell her you’ll be willing to talk to her when it’s no longer true. No promises of what you will do, but no more talk until she proves it’s no longer true.
I think this is key - no promises on my part. At this point, after all that has been said and done, I don't think I want to reconcile regardless of her status. That aside, I agree with the idea of not even considering talking about it while it's still true.
Marz
Words/talk are meaningless. Only actions over a long period of time are meaningful.
Fucking correct. In my life I've done so much work on myself. I've stumbled, I've lost ground, and all that - but I've worked on myself. I've gotten physical issues corrected. I've pushed myself at work. I've done better with the kids. It's work, actions, that matter. Someone says 'I love you' but there's no action? Or worse, contradictory action - it's beyond useless - it's insulting.
Slanted
There is no pie, only cake.
LostOne, well done on your conversation. Our WWs continue to follow similar paths, so I read your thread with great interest. My WW holds to a more extreme version of that "gotta do it my way" business. She just does it her way, and when I don't react, she assumes I'm on-board, even when I say I'm not. It's weird.
Thanks - it's even worse than that because it's an excuse. Just chattering bullshit. I'm trying, I'm weak, blah, blah, blah. No, you don't want to. That's what it boils down to. You know what? Fine, don't want to - I'll survive this Hell and be out. I'll rebuild. I'll pour my energy into the kids, myself, and do whatever the fuck I want to do. Shit, I was thinking about it today. I have a friend on the other side of the country. Maybe after my kids are adults I'll move there. That might be hard for me though because I love my kids. Maybe they'd go with me though?
The thought led me to actually wonder: What are my plans? Obviously I don't have to figure out everything right now - but if I can rebuild then I have options. Do I want to rent? Would I buy a townhouse or a condo? Shoot, this Summer, I can take a week off - my week - and take the kids somewhere. Where would I want to go?
You are doing the only effective thing that can be done, and you're doing it well. Even if you're verbose!
Lol, yeah, I really like writing. It's cathartic. I like doing it better than talking.
NoOptTo
Take Stevesn quote... make copies of it and always carry one or two on you. When your STBXWW starts to talk about you two.... calmly hand her a copy and walk away.
I had a passing thought to put it on a business card and then, in a Patrick Bateman voice, go on about how it's eggshell white when I hand it to her...
farsidejunky
You did fine, brother. Don't be so hard on yourself.
Try this on for size if you want a concise response:
"I'm not okay with X."
"I'm not okay with doing it your way."
"I'm not okay with living under the same roof as you."
"I'm not okay with living in infidelity."
"I'm not okay with a wife I can't trust."
If you get tired of repeating that statement, fall back to this:
"Are you done?"
Yes, this is concise. I'll just stare at her blanking after she's rambled on and say 'you were talking to me this whole time?' in my best Kirk Lazarus voice...
ChamomileTea
You did really well, although I do think it's unfortunate that you got into a position where you were stuck in the car with her. It might be good to make a habit out of traveling separately so as to not get cornered again.
Agreed. I just wasn't thinking. I was concentrating on the gifted program and my son and trying not to get lost.
Her insistence that she does it "her way" doesn't make any sense to me. I don't see what she's trying to accomplish. But it's neither here nor there if the end result is D, as it will most certainly be due to her recalcitrance. Next time she comes to you asking for R again, maybe you should look her right in the eye and say, "Do you honestly believe that I can't do better than you?.. a liar and an adulterer?"
It accomplishes her stalling and being a cake eater. Her way led to all this shit. Her way is to do nothing. Fine, my way is to divorce. My time is as soon as possible.
As others (I think) have pointed out, if I was a priority she'd be concerned with repairing things with me, not delicately untangling herself or whatever. I mean, I try to be philosophically charitable - what's the best interpretation of what she's actually saying? I can't come up with one that doesn't revolve around stalling and whatever.
Good point about better than her. I can do better - shit, an honest woman who doesn't treat betraying her partner as a minor inconvenience.
The only thing I can fathom here is that she still thinks she's the grand prize, that she's worth fighting for. But she's not. She's a garden-variety cheater, whose worth is measured in lies and betrayal, meaning... not much.
I feel like she feels that way - but she says something different, of course. You are correct, this isn't worth fighting for. I sincerely believe that had she been remorseful in the beginning that I would have tried. 21 years is a long time, a lot of history. We have a family. I would have tried. But how she's treated me? The fucking evil banality of her 'plans' to use me? This is shit her sister did on a small scale - her sister cheated on her live in boyfriend, denied it and then had him pay her cell phone bills for a few months.
Until he asked me what was going on. I didn't know he didn't know about the other guy. I would have told him - but I really didn't know. So he starts asking stuff and I was honest. Well, after that conversation my wife's sister's cell phone was no longer paid for and she was pissed off at me. Whatever - I'm not lying for this type of shit.
The difference between the deeply remorseful and the merely regretful is that they SEE their own ugliness... and they can't bear it without turning toward change. Saying something like "I have to do this MY way" suggests to me that she still feels she has value, that even as she whines about her regrets, she doesn't see, doesn't FEEL, her own ugliness.
Yes, you are totally correct. I think my wife is 'aware' of her own ugliness and evil, which is why she lies about it to others. Why she lies about it - or tried to lie about it - with me.
DeWittle
Absolutely disagree with this! YOU HEARD her 6 month plan.
In fairness she also did have an 6-8 year plan.... Lol...Oh, I don't know why I find this correction funny. It's not. It's fucking sick that someone could float this idea about a person they claimed to care about for decades.
You know she is stringing you along til she is in a better position to cut you out of her life. YOU HEARD HER STATE THIS.
I don’t even suggest the 180, you are beyond that. No Contact except the children. The only thing conversations now are going to get you is pain.
I agree mostly - I have to have some contact, but I will try to lessen it and lessen it.
You are absolutely correct, the 'relationship conversations' are just pain.
Sharkman
I agree. That statement is also inconsistent with the 180. Logically it also does not make sense, ‘as long as you are with’ makes it sounds like all she has to do is dump the guy (or more likely lie about doing so) and everything gets fixed. That is incorrect.
What is correct is that she made the unilateral decision to end the marriage by severing the wedding vows. Everything that happens after this point is at the complete and utter discretion of the betrayed, not the betrayer, since there is no ‘current state’. He’d have to decide to start a *new* marriage with this wayward. On paper do you think that she’d make the best choice of a spouse when compared with his other options?
I don't read Steven's statement that way. It's not being made as a 'do this and we reconcile'. It's more a 'there's nothing to talk about at all with the dick-pickle in the picture'.
Stevesn
This must feel what it’s like to be misquoted in the press.
And I followed it up my suggestion with:
Tell her you’ll be willing to talk to her when it’s no longer true. No promises of what you will do, but no more talk until she proves it’s no longer true.
When it’s no longer true means she’s done the work to rid him from her life and heart. That will take months or years if it’s ever really truly possible. And only then is a discussion all that would be offered, if he’s even interested. Nothing more. No promises means no promises.
Eh, I get what you're saying - but the 'misquote' leads to further conversation and clarification which can be helpful. I understood what you were saying, but I appreciate the back and forth. It gives me some other views. If I don't phrase your words carefully my wife could EASILY interpret in a different fashion.
Stevesn
No problem. We are all trying to help.
And I actually think we are all saying the same thing. Move on. If she wakes up and shows real remorse for his pain and actually does the work, then there’s a conversation to be had with absolutely no promises made.
Exactly. Right now she's a unremorseful user - someone who's dangerous. You don't talk to a dog that's attacking you.
That will take months and years so no need to keep discussing now.
LostOne should do his best to take the steps to move on and stop interfacing with her. My words were an attempt to state that simply so she can understand what he’s been trying to say to her so often.
Yes, I agree.
BeyondRage
There is no “work” done unless she totally cuts the OM out of her life with means for Lost to verify it. He lives a short drive away and she works from home with Lostnout of the house all day
Until this is resolved there is no other form of remorse or action that means crap.
And she has not budged from this insane horse shit that she needs to donut her way which we all know what that means.
There is nothing here to reconcile with
I agree that there's nothing to reconcile with - but what I think Steven is getting at is a short simple phrase to cut the conversation off with an explanation of why.
BeyondRage
And given the history here how would he even go about believing anything???
At this point? Not a clue. I'd have to go all Inspector Gadget on her shit and do I really want to live like that?
Marz
How often do you see repeated behavior afterwards?
Way too much.
I feel like my wife is a clear candidate for repeated behavior. Her treatment of me, her dismissals, gas lighting, nefarious plans, etc are demonstrate a brazen disregard for me as a person. I mean, I'm newish to infidelity but is this sort of disrespect or malicious or clear disregard the norm for infidelity?
Stevesn
The point i was trying to make was that it’s not just physical No Contact that would be required to even start a discussion, but emotional No Contact as well. She needs to stop loving, caring, thinking about the POSOM as Anything but an asshole who has helped her destroy her life and completely hurt the man she vowed to love and protect.
Yes, definitely - which she has indicated in the past that she 'might never be able to overcome'.
That takes months and years for her to do and she’s not even willing to sever physical ties let alone emotional ones.
And if she did, months or years from now, get to that point, and could prove it, that’s only where the real work would begin, NOT where reconciliation happens. And that’s only if LostOne were interested in even trying.
Yes, exactly - and I think this is beside reconciliation, actually - as in, if she wants to rekindle a friendship with me or anything like that, then this shit needs to be done.
But the point is moot. She’s no where near even taking the first of these many steps. So moving on with D is the only option right now.
Yup, exactly.
My goal was only to provide words he could give to shut her down on these relentless discussions and make her understand that there’s no working on the M AT ALL while she’s in the frame of mind she is in. That he’s moving on and she should go be with the man she apparently truly loves and leave him alone.
I agree with all of you. There is no remorse, and there is no working on reconciliation. It would take a complete change in her to even make that remotely possible, and that is completely unlikely at this point. And if she ever did, I have little faith should could actually take any real steps to rebuild anything.
I’m on board. I swear.
It's a good goal - I need it - because I tend to blather on way too much. Lol. You are astute in pointing out that she's in a completely different frame of mind than I am. She's not going to get it, get where I am, until I'm either out of the house or possibly after the mediation is complete - both of which should be timed in close succession.
I mean, even erasing the last 30 days, it's a hard sell if she WAS actually interested in reconciliation.
I'm thinking my marriage is dead, but there's still hope for her as a person - but she'd have to change. At this point that's a pure hypothetical. IF she changes that doesn't mean I'm required to do anything. Maybe make peace with it? But I'm not required to be her friend or reconcile or anything.
Who knows where I'll be IF she finally realizes the horribleness of all her actions.
