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This is pure conjecture, but I feel like a large portion of people who might have an intellectual stance on feeling "ookie" about high partner count potential dating partners (at least the men, I can only speak for my libido and what rationalizations I've made in the past and sloppily project that onto the others) will, in practice, not really give a shit about partner count. I sincerely feel that for as much as ANYONE might make ANY passionate argument saying "I wouldn't want to date people who did X", if an opportunity presented itself to date a person who in fact DOES do X and the timing was right or he/she was attractive enough or he/she was alluring as fuck or they were bored or desperate or WHATEVER, that person who wouldn't date people who did X would go into overdrive rationalizing why X doesn't matter in this situation and would jump into the proverbial sack with that person. "Yeah, but he/she's different. He/she's not like that."

Some people might actually stick with their convictions, and that's okay, too.

Life catches us at weird times. If you've made it to our ages and you haven't made some questionable decisions about dating partners, you haven't lived. Hell, the very nature of SI implies we've ALL made some pretty goddamn questionable decisions about dating partners! I wouldn't take anybody else's personal preference in dating partners to heart, especially given what I said above. I mean, I personally feel like I would run the other way if I met a woman who was even just an 80% facsimile of my ex-wife, but never say never. Maybe this next one reminds me of her in all the right ways and none of the bad ones. Who knows. I would have to judge it in the moment.

And that's another thing. The implication that some of the dudes might not be getting across (though some have in fact been mentioning this) with the judgment on partner count is they most certainly WOULD be judging it *in the moment*, as in taking into account that person's totality. Dating isn't bureaucratic, where two people are just filling out forms and shoving them into a computer (although maybe I just described online dating...). It's often two people meeting in some comfortable atmosphere, chumming it up, feeling some kind of chemistry or even just lust, and rationalizing boning the other person after the fact.

Hey Sal, quit being such a Judgy McJudgerton!

Nah, j/k

You're exactly right.

Same with the guy who asked me if I had panties on under my dress at the company Christmas party last year. I didn't even have to say anything, he was fired the next day. Progress.

Yes, and they should be fired for that behavior, it's completely unacceptable. But, if you look at it from the other side, you'll quickly understand why I (and other's at work as well) have taken a "never alone with women" stance. Because, in your case, I'm sure you were accusing men who deserved it, but, is that always the case? I can say, without question, no it's not. And no matter how powerful you are in the company, no matter how hard you worked to get where you are, all it takes one allegation like this, true or not, to ruin your career. It's sad, while I work with almost no women, we used to invite those we did work with out to dinner/drinks/golf/etc. Now, it's like we live in 2 different worlds, the men are terrified of the allegations and, while I can't say the name, take on a famous politician's rule as the safest alternative, never be alone with a woman at work, for any reason, at any time.

This hurts everyone. It hurts women because they don't get the face time and interactions, it hurts men because we don't benefit from female company and wind up spinning into topics and subjects that would never be discussed with women in the room, and it hurts the company because we're not nearly as efficient as we could be if we were more inclusive.

Frankly, I think that most of the claims by women are true, maybe even "almost all". But when it comes to HR, it's such a gray line, we're not talking ass grabbing and "panties or not" comments, we're talking very mild sexual innuendo that, for some, is seen as "nothing" that turns into a "fired with cause" for men who slip up and forget there's a woman at the table. No, it's not a false accusation, and perhaps you even believe that it's right (fire him for making an off color joke!), but, I can tell you, first hand, corporate America, it's playing out with "2 clubhouses" being built, which is good for neither sex.

If it's any consolation to you, I am sorry if you were offended by my comments. It is not my belief that all men are sexist, or creepy, or any of that. I think it always goes to hell in a handbasket when generalizations are being made. (For both genders, even if you fail to see the female version of why this thread had its moments of being really offensive)

I'm digging this back up because I have a little more time to post. And it bugs me. First, I don't require an apology, nor was I offended. My problem with your comment was how acceptable you found it. Your comment literally minimized the gender shaming towards men, because in your opinion, women have dealt with it longer. Now I'm not interested in debating the legitimacy of that idea, I'm just interested in pointing out this - Imagine me acknowledging that yes, there was shaming but because you are a woman, you wouldn't understand. Also, I never said I failed to see the female version of this thread. I seen many angles of it. I seen some shitty things said. I seen more shitty ideas wrongly assumed. I seen women from both sides stating sexual history was or wasn't important. I seen women pointing out that wanting to know wasn't slut shaming. I seen women saying it was. I also seen women just jumping on an ideological band wagon.

But, I had to chuckle as you realized that at the very least that Silver had nailed exactly what RIO was stating because you couldn't believe that is what he meant. I think you missed a lot of other misogynistic comments like that one, in favor of looking at how badly the men were being treated. It was very much happening on both sides and that was the only reason I made the comments that I did. I certainly don't condone the mistreatment of anyone based on their gender, no matter what that gender might be.

I kinda addressed this, but once again I feel the need to clarify, because you assumed a lot on my behalf. You say I missed a lot. But what if I didn't. What if those misogynistic (it's amazing how overused that word gets) comments were misinterpreted. What if the vast majority of them were tainted through a certain lens and assumptions were made. Food for thought. Also saying you don't condone mistreatment while simultaneously dismissing obvious proof (my list) solely because of women suffered longer, well I don't know where your views on sexism lay, but they look a little skewed to me.

[This message edited by Loukas at 6:57 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

Following the conversation about workplace behavior, I often wondered many months ago just how my ex-wife and her coworker (and any of our cheaters in that situation, really) started their little Forbidden Love thing. I mean, droves of people still fuck work strange to this day. For every story you hear about somebody saying the wrong thing at work and getting shitcanned, you know in real life a dozen people who fucked around at work.

Interesting little aside. There's a woman I work with, someone I'd consider a good friend if we ever hung out outside of work beyond this one time my ex and I went to her and her husband's house for dinner many years ago. We go way back, to a different company even. I try to pop in every now and then and we launch into a multi-hour conversation about whatever. She's very intelligent and extremely easy to talk to. We match energies very well. The type of person where you can launch straight into real talk instead of tapdancing around meaningless superficial bullshit. Anyway, she's very much a self-described soldier in the women's rights movement. She's someone who quotes Eleanor Roosevelt. She mentally logs every perceived sleight from men in the office. She spends a significant amount of brainpower judging men's body language and trying to discern meaning, telling me when she thinks someone's trying to be intimidating, or whatever. She's the very type of person who might post her opinion somewhere and get branded an SJW. But I know *her*, the full person, and I enjoy her company.

SO at some point in the not so distant past, she was propositioned at work. Somebody, not sure who but I can imagine her boss or something, kissed her. She said she played it off. She didn't want to make it weird. She seemed very chill about the whole event and even admitted to it making her feel attractive. I get that, but it doesn't match up very well with what I know about her. Why did she play it cool? Why didn't she go straight to HR? Well, the thing is...she's very unhappy in her marriage. She's going through the usual 10-year marital malaise that so many of my peers have talked about, that my ex-wife went through, and she's undergoing what I can only describe as "textbook wayward thinking". I don't think she did anything, and perhaps she wouldn't do anything (or maybe she would or did and wouldn't tell me, but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt for now), but she's very clearly (and admitted to doing so) mulling over extramarital relationships in her head. And even without her admission, any of us who was a BS and has sunken a lot of time into reading each other's stories can see it clear as day.

Bringing this full circle to a point I made earlier, this is a person who, to me, is rationalizing sacrificing her convictions to meet her immediate needs. This is the type of messiness that being a person entails. These are the decisions we make where we go "No, it's different for me" and go forward with the dumb thing. This is an extreme but resonating and possibly trigger-y example since we're all here because of infidelity, but this is exactly what we go through when we throw our "code" out the window and just jump into things with someone.

Going back to the original question that started this whole circus:

Is your SO's sexual history any of your business?

Short answer is and unequivocal YES. But let me add some depth.

Let's just keep nice round numbers k? And for the sake of throwing some balance down, I am going to address this as a woman.

Dude A (who for the sake of argument is someone I am moving into SO territory with) is 40. He started dating when he was 20. He was married for 10 years. He has had 30 sexual partners.

Now, 30 sounds like a lot to me. But I need some additional context here. Was he really sexually adventurous and partying a lot and sleeping around in college? Did he sleep with 10 different women in the 10 years he was married? Because it is a way different situation if he got around when he was in college and sowed some wild oats before he was married and had children than it is if he cheated on his wife for 10 years. One of those situations I would be perfectly ok with. One of them would be unacceptable to me. Not saying it is WRONG, just that it isn't right for ME. But without having the context added, I don't have the full picture enough to know where my comfort is with it.

I work in a very male dominated industry and it has a lot of 'good ol boys' that remember the days when smacking the secretary's ass was an acceptable behavior. Times change thankfully and that would be frowned upon now, but believe me when I say I have had my fair share of harassment-type situations. They aren't OK, but it is the world we live in. In my experience, calling someone out for that shit when it happens tends to be a very effective antidote.

On slut-shaming... It does happen. There is a glaring double standard in the sexual arena for men and women. It sucks, but it is just a reality. Bottom line? I don't give a FUCK if someone thinks I'm a slut. And frankly if they hear my number and think that, then we are clearly very different people. Neither is right or wrong, just different.

Bottom line for me is this. I am a very honest and forthright person. Color me old-fashioned, but I believe in treating others the way I wish to be treated. Dishonesty is disrespectful to me, and I choose not to do it. I will speak my truth and others will either accept it or not. TBH at this point I really don't care if they do or don't. So long as I am staying true to my damn self, then the chips will fall where they do.

Compatibility in a relationship is really important; and that is for in multiple areas. Mental, intelligence, emotional, sexual, moral, you name it. All of them are important, tho some are more important than others to different people. I don't get to tell someone else that what they value is not important to me, therefore they are not allowed to value it. And frankly, I would rather find out while dating whether the compatibility exists than when I have invested time/emotion/mental energy/etc in a relationship. And that street goes both ways. I can't say that I get to have dealbreakers and a guy doesn't. And it doesn't matter if I agree with those dealbreakers or not. If a man has to have certain sexual act(s) on the menu to be happy and fulfilled in their sexual relationship and it is something your SO flat out refuses to do with you (regardless of whether it has been done before you)? Yeah, that is a situation where if you stay together, someone is going to have to compromise and neither will be completely happy. Is that something either is willing to live with? If yes great. If no, then move on and find people who are more compatible with you. But no matter what, each party should be honest with the other! I really fail to see what is so fucking difficult about that.

Ran out of popcorn, Ellie?

Hell naw Loukas! Want some??

It has just been quite a while since I have seen a post go so off the rails. Figured if you can't beat em, join em

RIO, for fuck's sake.....now that it's wrong to grab a woman's ass at work and a fireable offense, men should just not be alone with women because they'll lie about you? So we either get treated like second class citizens at work or we can demand better and then have our careers nonexistent because men are scared of us? What universe do you live in?!?

My boss and I are alone in his office several times per week and he and his female boss are alone in her office several times per week because THAT IS HOW WORK IS. No one's genitals are relevant in those meetings. They are actually about WORK.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 8:00 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

Honest to God we are not a separate fucking species. We are just people. My mind is what does and should matter at work, not my tits. I am sure that a very small percentage of women are pieces of shit sociopaths who would lie to get someone fired. There is a special place in hell for that type. Those bitches are few and far between. The ones who want to fuck their coworkers and hit on them are legion.

The ones who want to fuck their coworkers and hit on them are legion.

Offices should have a sign out front that says "We are homewreckers. We are legion. Beware." with photos of our APs mean mugging.

Offices should have a sign out front that says "We are homewreckers. We are legion. Beware." with photos of our APs mean mugging.

Every office has them too. Ugh.

Absolutely, Ellie!

(by far the best popcorn gif I've seen)

RIO, for fuck's sake.....now that it's wrong to grab a woman's ass at work and a fireable offense, men should just not be alone with women because they'll lie about you? So we either get treated like second class citizens at work or we can demand better and then have our careers nonexistent because men are scared of us? What universe do you live in?!?

Reality.. Welcome.

And you know what I'm saying, and it's got nothing to do with it being "right" to grab ass at work. It's NOT AT ALL right to do that, and I'd probably wind up fired for decking a guy if I saw him do something like that and it was clearly unwelcome. Frankly, I think that most men would. What you're completely glossing over is that nobody has to do any grab ass at all, the accusation of grab ass is all it takes now. Imagine if you could be fired on the "say so" of a certain type of employee. You think you wouldn't try to make sure you didn't wind up in that employee's sights? Of course you would, it would make sense to be "afraid" of a person who holds that power over you.

I am sure that a very small percentage of women are pieces of shit sociopaths who would lie to get someone fired. There is a special place in hell for that type. Those bitches are few and far between. The ones who want to fuck their coworkers and hit on them are legion.

Is that a bigger or smaller percentage than the guys who would grab a woman without her permission at work? Just want to make sure I know here, because it seems just fine to be concerned about harassment at work but not at all fine to be afraid of a false accusation. I'd hold that it's a small percentage of "shit sociopaths" men that would make forceful sexual advances at work or pull the "sex for promotion" routine. And yet, here we, enough "shit sociopath" men out there that we sit though hours of training every year on it. Now, if we're just talking about men who want to fuck their coworkers, sure, I'll freely agree, that's a MUCH larger group. But that's not sexual harassment, that's just being a horny guy. So, putting a fine point on it; I think it's basically the same thing, women are worried about men making unwelcome advances and men worried about women making false accusations. And both are in their fort well armed against the other, men cutting women out of social events and women with the nuclear option at their disposal should they choose to use it.

Honestly, it's a horrible situation. It's just gotten worse over the past 5-10 years. We used to have lunch/dinners as a team all the time, now it's like high school, I'll get a TXT that "Mr. Big Wig is having dinner with a few people tonight and would you like to come; but don't tell anyone". It's ridiculous, and it's all because Mr. Big Wig lives in fear of what might happen. And, let's be honest here, Mr. BW will likely say some really un-PC things at that dinner; things that HR would absolutely be interested in if they heard them (especially if booze is involved). Yes, we can all say "Just don't be an asshole" is the right answer, and it is, no argument from me at all. But it's also not reality, or at least not reality in my male dominated workplace.

Ellie!

Silver, I truly do hope that one day you realize it’s an ideology controlling those thoughts, not reality. Honestly, I have great compassion towards you and your story and reading these poisonous thoughts come out through your words...well I wish I could show you another way.

Thank you for your compassion, Loukas. Sometimes I have trouble determining reality. I want to know which of my thoughts are poisonous, so I'll know which ones to confront and change.

Is that a bigger or smaller percentage than the guys who would grab a woman without her permission at work? Just want to make sure I know here, because it seems just fine to be concerned about harassment at work but not at all fine to be afraid of a false accusation.

I have heard that this is a very common fear of men, in personal life and in the workplace. That's understandable - there are a lot of men who have experienced it, and it isn't right.

The statistics I've read say that false reporting is between 1% and 10% - different sources give different numbers, but I have not seen one higher than 10%. Most have said between 2% and 6%.

I read an article recently that said that men are sexually assaulted in higher percentages than they're falsely accused. That if we're going by percentages, men are in more danger of being assaulted or raped than they are of being falsely accused. I don't say that to dismiss the men afraid of false accusations, because we know those are valid fears - rather, I share this to put it into context, and to alert men to another danger they face.

The statistics consistently say that women have the highest rates of being sexually assaulted and raped. We don't know exactly how many victims there are, for either women or men, because victims of all genders have reasons for not speaking up. There are stigmas for ALL sexual assault victims - some are different based on gender, but all genders have stigmas and injustices to overcome when trying to speak out.

I do not say this to play the Pain Olympics, but to validate everyone's concerns. Each of these things are really happening, and people have a good reason for bringing each of them up. I hope what I've shared is not used as an excuse to dismiss each others' concerns, but to grow empathy amongst each other.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 9:18 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

Because it is a way different situation if he got around when he was in college and sowed some wild oats before he was married and had children than it is if he cheated on his wife for 10 years. One of those situations I would be perfectly ok with. One of them would be unacceptable to me. Not saying it is WRONG, just that it isn't right for ME.

Ellie, I'm gonna go way out on a limb and say that even on this epic shitshow of a thread, a guy who cheated on his wife for ten years with ten different women can officially be judged "wrong."

RIO, I have to work to earn a living and I have worked quite hard to get where I am. I am a professional woman with a decent job with a fair amount of responsibility. I have endured sexual harassment at work a number of times and I am not inappropriate or inviting of such behavior at work. I have once seen a woman who was having an affair with our boss accuse him of sexual harassment, get him fired and take his job. I am aware that this happens, though it is not common and the rest of us women in the department spoke up. We could not change the outcome.

What you are suggesting is that because of women like this one, women might as well get our bitch asses back into the kitchen. If I cannot meet one on one with management and coworkers who are male, I am useless in my role. I am not going to be effective. I am going to be placed in a category merely because of my gender and I am not okay with that. That is not the solution. Everyone doesn't get to be shitty because of a very few shitty people. I have a mortgage payment to worry about and kids to feed. I am the breadwinner in my house. I am not going to be reduced to my chromosomal makeup when that is irrelevant to my job.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 9:36 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

I didn't read all the comments, but I wanted to put in my two cents.

I think it depends on the people. Does your partner's sexual history matter to you? Is it something that you are worried about effecting you in some way?

Basically you are entitled to feel however you feel, but they are entitled to not want to tell you and you have to decide what to do then.

BSR - you are correct, but just throwing an extreme example out there... But you get my point yes? Just that without context it is hard to make an educated judgement* call and different contexts change the story.

*Yes, I said judgement - kiss my sass

RIO - I do get what you're saying. I have a couple friends that have sons and I don't envy them raising a boy in today's world. And I know of some places for sure that a guy gets fired, but not in my industry unless he WAY overstepped a line... like grabbed a tit directly in front of the head of HR... sometimes not even then.

And IMHO - anyone who lies like that to fuck someone else over is just a shit excuse for a human.