SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Dee, that is your opinion.

I do have loads of opinions.

Statistics define the trend, and, in the case of partner count the statistics do seem to indicate that "high" is less likely to lead to lasting marriage, and, probably the reason people's "GoogleFu" appears to be broken, "high" appears to be more impactful for women than it is for men (in their martial satisfaction/likelihood of D). And people don't like that at all, because it indicates there is a "difference" between sex for men and sex for women. Which completely goes against the current narrative in society.

I agree completely that the statistics don’t preordain an outcome. And if a number of studies seem to indicate that it’s more difficult for people with high partner counts, particularly women, to form strong long-term pair bonds, that also doesn’t mean it’s preordained.

I raised this simply to point out that there are fairly good reasons, aside from mere personal preference, that people might have their own personal standard for not wanting a partner with a long history of multiple sexual partners. Mene earlier in the thread pointed to additional reasons even beside this one, including a higher risk for STD’s, so it’s a fairly common sense line of thinking for a man or woman to have this personal standard — and rationally looking out for one’s own self interest. There’s nothing “Christian” or “conservative” about this line of thinking, although I suppose one could have these standards based on those religious and political beliefs as well. But a man or woman could prefer a partner not to have had a sexual partner count for any variety of reasons — and having common sense concerns that this could make a potential partner less likely to be happy in a long-term relationship seems fairly easy to understand, unless one is being willfully obtuse on the topic.

Just as a woman would more than likely object to a man having a raging porn habit (there are threads here on SI attesting to this objection daily) and just like there are good common sense reasons for that and just like we now know that porn does impair men’s brains in very specific ways. So we have studies showing it and we also have lots of anecdotal evidence that’s been piling up (at places like SI) over the past several years of women sharing their personal painful stories that this seems to harm their male partner’s libido and makes them crave more extreme sex. And no, that’s not rocket science, either. It’s common sense that this would be the case, and it’s what many feminists and Christian conservatives alike were postulating and theorizing would happen decades ago.

No, WornDown my pointing to the study and saying it appears to be a legitimate academic endeavor covered by mainstream news outlets is not an appeal to authority. It’s only saying we should obviously give it the benefit of doubt. I’d only be making an appeal to authority if I said we MUST believe what this is saying without questioning it. I’m not doing that. But you are in fact committing the genetic fallacy here and saying we absolutely CANNOT believe what it is saying because the researchers happen to write for an enterprise you personally disagree with.

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:20 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

Don’t we all.

Anyway, I figured this thread might have been a blatantly obvious example of how ridiculous men can treated on SI. And I do still believe that be true. However, it is obvious to me, that oppression and slut shaming even if it’s just assumed, trumps all. Oh and well RIO’s words do not speak for all, just as I never said all women filled the list I provided. I don’t know the exact number, it could easily be defined as many. I have no interest in rereading the thread again for the exact number.

I know heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones. It's common sense. I can hold that opinion confidently.

Which falls faster? A pound of lead or a pound of feathers?

Ask a 100 people, see how many answer correctly....

It's because we have been oppressed, Loukas. It isn't because we enjoy making that argument or facing that reality. "Yay, my sexual choices are judged differently from a man's sexual choices. What fun!". No.

It isn't about man-hating or SJW or whatever. It's just the truth.

I was a virgin when I got married so I can’t relate to people shaming me for having sex with lots of guys. But I did get the frigid bitch line and the prude line and a bunch of others. My fave was the guy who referred to me as “She With The Golden P***y” because I wouldn’t mess around with him. But just to bring this back to infidelity (I know, crazy, right?), there were a lot of names or terms thrown at me after my A that I don’t see the equivalent of thrown at men. Whore, slut, skank, and so on. My husband called me these names, some people here on SI called me these names either in threads or in PM’s or talked about me in that way.

I’m not saying I didn’t or don’t deserve the...I don’t know what you call it...derision? But I don’t really see the same applied to men. It’s like “She was a whore.” vs. “He chased after some strange.” Maybe I’m wrong and it’s out there. Maybe I’m sensitive. I don’t know. But at least it seems to me that women are perceived more harshly for what they do when having an A than men are. No one gets a free pass here on SI. That’s not what I’m saying. It just feels like women are viewed through a different microscope. There’s discussions about whether a woman had anal sex, or swallowed or had a facial, or what positions they did it in or lots of things. Of course there’s talk about what men do too, but it seems like there’s less of a focus if a man had sex in the doggy style position or if he ejaculated on a woman’s face, but if the woman had sex in any position besides missionary or was the recipient of the ejaculation, she now is somehow less than.

Sigh. I don’t know why I’m posting this. I’m not attacking anyone for it and I’m not complaining either. I’m merely backing up what DevastatedDee said about how our sexual choices are viewed differently. I’m not looking to start an argument. If what I said is totally off base, please ignore this post.

Everyone else is making all these scientific arguments and going off on trans tangents and slut tangents and I'm just sittin here like

RIO, forgive me for being presumptuous, but I’m going to go ahead and strongly assume your “number” is on the higher end of average. Yet you have stated consistently in your time on SI that you have not committed adultery, believe cheating is wrong, and keep tight boundaries to avoid situations in which you would likely find yourself tempted.

Why do you believe that a theoretical woman with a “number” equal to yours is a greater “risk,” based on her “number” alone, when you yourself go out of your way to NOT be a risk?

That, I believe, is at the heart of why people on this thread are saying a woman’s past sexual experiences don’t necessarily mean anything as far as predicting future behavior. You yourself, RIO, have said before that if anyone would have been more likely to cheat, it would be you, and yet you have not. I also tend to believe, based on your posting history and just a gut feeling, that you have never viewed nor treated your wife as an object or a mere “notch count” although, based on how you personally have described your past, one could infer that your “past behavior” would make it more likely that you would do so. Assuming everything you post is true, and I think that’s a valid assumption to make because you would have no reason to lie, you are an example of prior behavior NOT predicting future behavior, and yet you are one of the voices on this thread who has said that past behavior IS a “risk” along these lines. Given that you personally buck that stereotype, why do you think you believe that?

I know heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones. It's common sense. I can hold that opinion confidently.

Which falls faster? A pound of lead or a pound of feathers?

Ask a 100 people, see how many answer correctly.

The science nerd in me is so confused!

Mass isn't part of the free-fall equation.

Maybe time for all of us to challenge assumptions?

[This message edited by Slowlygoingcrazy at 1:36 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

Which falls faster? A pound of lead or a pound of feathers?

Ask a 100 people, see how many answer correctly....

In a vacuum they fall at the same rate due to gravity exerting equal force. On earth, or any place that isn't a vacuum, the feathers will fall slower because air resistance will exert an opposite force thereby affecting the velocity of the feathers.

Loukas,

If it's any consolation to you, I am sorry if you were offended by my comments. It is not my belief that all men are sexist, or creepy, or any of that. I think it always goes to hell in a handbasket when generalizations are being made. (For both genders, even if you fail to see the female version of why this thread had its moments of being really offensive)

All women who have been sexually adventurous are not bad, immoral, bad marriage material, or otherwise.

All men are not slut shamers, use double standards, sexism, look to oppress women or other wise.

But, I had to chuckle as you realized that at the very least that Silver had nailed exactly what RIO was stating because you couldn't believe that is what he meant. I think you missed a lot of other misogynistic comments like that one, in favor of looking at how badly the men were being treated. It was very much happening on both sides and that was the only reason I made the comments that I did. I certainly don't condone the mistreatment of anyone based on their gender, no matter what that gender might be.

EllieKMAS

I can’t post gifs, but if I could, picture one of me spitting a Diet Coke all over my iPad.

Anyway, I figured this thread might have been a blatantly obvious example of how ridiculous men can treated on SI. And I do still believe that be true. However, it is obvious to me, that oppression and slut shaming even if it’s just assumed, trumps all. Oh and well RIO’s words do not speak for all, just as I never said all women filled the list I provided. I don’t know the exact number, it could easily be defined as many. I have no interest in rereading the thread again for the exact number.

I think both men and women were treated ridiculously on this thread and sometimes on SI in general and really, the world in general. I thought the shaming of men for asking about a partner's sexual history wasn't cool. I found it rather strange that men were being shamed for not being interested in dating a trans woman. I find it odd that so many men base a woman's worth on the number of sex partners she has had in this day and age. There are studies about this and everything, apparently. Are there studies on how men are harmed by having too many sex partners or do they mostly just get a high-five? I find it incredibly strange that you don't seem to see that there is a huge double-standard in how women and men's sexualities are judged. Now most of that nonsense about the "societal value" of sexuality of men and women was RIO, I'll grant you, lol.

It's just annoying as a woman to even have to think about this stuff. Honestly, I'd hope we don't have to go around thinking "Well gosh, I slept with 2 people last year. If I sleep with this guy, that makes 3 people this year and if you add the 5 others in the past 10 years that makes 15. I wonder if that means that I'm undateable and whorish??" It's dumb, is what it is.

I still don't know what "too many" even is. 5? 10? 50? 75? Do men count by age and ask how many years a woman was single? You know, divide up "Well, she was married for 20 years so that's one dude, but she's 50 and that makes 10 years single. 3 guys a year and that high school boyfriend, gosh, that makes 32. WHORE." So how many is it, guys?

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 1:59 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

For the record, RIO and silver really didn’t even come close to saying the samething. Not even maybe, but yes, he more than made up for that with his follow up.

And Dee, I don’t fail to see stupid shit guys say. I was actually worried about the blow back guys could have dished out after I posted the list. I have argued with RIO relentlessly through every channel possible. Nothing changes.

But beyond him, and a few poorly made points that led to assumptions, the argument wasn’t that a high number made women less valuable. It was that sexual history was important to some, men and women. But that didn’t stop the assumptions from flying as to why it mattered. Which was much more indicative of internalized stigma then what was actually said. But as I’ve stated several times now, that didn’t stop the shit being launched at men.

[This message edited by Loukas at 2:15 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

In a vacuum they fall at the same rate due to gravity exerting equal force. On earth, or any place that isn't a vacuum, the feathers will fall slower because air resistance will exert an opposite force thereby affecting the velocity of the feathers.

Wouldn't it depend on how the feathers are packed? What happens if you drop a tightly compacted ball of feathers and a large, thin sheet of lead?

I'm kind of assuming that this thread has gone so Wild West that it's ok to be off on this tangent, but my apologies to GoldenR if he feels otherwise.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 2:23 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

Ok, having an opinion isn't shaming. Shame is in the eye of the beholder. If you haven't figured that out, then go read the WS forum and learn a little please.

If someone decides to leave a relationship due to sexual promiscuity, that is a better reason than a lot of other stupid reasons I have heard IRL.

So how many is it, guys?

So, I like to use real life stories. My friend got divorced due to her cheating and she went on a hooking up spree. Actually 5 of my female friends have done this. It seems to last about a year or so, no matter who initiates the divorce. Anyways, 2 of them hooked up with guys casually who hung out at all the same places as these women. Then these women started dating guys seriously and guess what, they ran into the guys they hooked up with in the past. Then there was a fight based on that interaction (Sometimes between the guys, sometimes later as a couple).

One of the girls had so many of these, her boyfriend is just done going out now and she is pissed about that. So, consequences exist for being promiscuous.

The only guy friend I have who has gotten around was never married but has a similar problem. He has a reputation which every girl hears about sooner or later. He can't bring a girl to his favorite bar without someone warning her, "About how he is."

It isn't slut shaming. It just makes for a difficult environment to have a relationship.

Sex is an intimate connection between people. If you have that intimacy with everyone, it makes the sharing of it not to feel as special. It is why sharing it just with a spouse is so important after marriage. It goes both ways BTW. It is why you never really forget your first.

It doesn't mean you are garbage if you have slept with a ton of people. It just means you need to find other ways to make the person you are with special because sex isn't special to you.

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 4:36 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

I find it incredibly strange that you don't seem to see that there is a huge double-standard in how women and men's sexualities are judged.

If you're talking to me, I DO see it. There's a huge double standard here, some of it makes sense, some of it does not. But there's absolutely a double standard, I would never argue there isn't.

It's just annoying as a woman to even have to think about this stuff. Honestly, I'd hope we don't have to go around thinking "Well gosh, I slept with 2 people last year. If I sleep with this guy, that makes 3 people this year and if you add the 5 others in the past 10 years that makes 15. I wonder if that means that I'm undateable and whorish??" It's dumb, is what it is.

I'd agree with that as well, it is dumb. Just like it's dumb that a lot of women will filter on dating sites for >6 feet tall. Some of the best guys I know are 5'5". Equally stupid, IMHO. But people have the right to base their decisions on dumb stuff, in fact, they do it much/most of the time! Doesn't make it right, and I don't think that we should stop people from making dumb decisions that don't harm others, but, ever decision you make, dumb or not, can/may/does have repercussions. Should it? Most of the time, no, it should not. But it does.

RIO, forgive me for being presumptuous, but I’m going to go ahead and strongly assume your “number” is on the higher end of average. Yet you have stated consistently in your time on SI that you have not committed adultery, believe cheating is wrong, and keep tight boundaries to avoid situations in which you would likely find yourself tempted.

Why do you believe that a theoretical woman with a “number” equal to yours is a greater “risk,” based on her “number” alone, when you yourself go out of your way to NOT be a risk?

My number is on the high end of average, you're right. But, where we differ, I KNOW I'm a risk and that history makes me risky. And because of that, I'm very mindful of my boundaries, to the point where, when we've had that discussion in the past, people have said "your ridiculous". Yeah, maybe, but I'm like an ex-drinker who won't even have one beer, or even go to a bar; I know it's a weak point for me, and I avoid it. I haven't cheated because I'm not "low risk", I haven't cheated because I recognize that I'm "high risk" and take actions to limit my exposure.

So, consequences exist for being promiscuous.

That's really it in a nutshell. And those consequences exist for both sexes, but, undoubtedly, women pay a higher price for it (right or wrong). Just like men pay a higher price for not making a lot of money, that will restrict your dating options. And women pay a higher price for being overweight. And men pay a higher price for not being tall. None of it is "fair". But it's the way it is, and sticking our head in the sand about it does nobody any favors.

[This message edited by Rideitout at 2:39 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

Are there studies on how men are harmed by having too many sex partners or do they mostly just get a high-five?

Yes, the same studies show the same effect for men - it just seems to be more pronounced for women. I don't know why. I could speculate all day long, but that would be speculation on my part. Maybe women's brains are more sensitive to the "severing" of too many pair bonds? That seems plausible and not a ridiculous assumption. But I have no idea.

Are there studies on how men are harmed by having too many sex partners or do they mostly just get a high-five?

Yes, the same studies show the same effect for men - it just seems to be more pronounced for women. I don't know why. I could speculate all day long, but that would be speculation on my part. Maybe women's brains are more sensitive to the "severing" of too many pair bonds? Given that men and women's brains do operate in completely unique ways (for example, women can use both hemispheres at the same time while men "hyperfocus" in one hemisphere and then jump to the other one) that seems plausible and not a ridiculous assumption. But I have no idea.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:43 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

DoinBetter, your story is why it's nice to live in and around larger cities, lol. I've run into no one.

Sex is an intimate connection between people. If you have that intimacy with everyone, it makes the sharing of it not to feel as special. It is why sharing it just with a spouse is so important after marriage. It goes both ways BTW. It is why you never really forget your first.

It doesn't mean you are garbage if you have slept with a ton of people. It just means you need to find other ways to make the person you are with special because sex isn't special to you.

Sex is very special to me when it's with one I love. It's special even when it isn't. I wouldn't sleep with just anyone regardless. I don't view it as the same thing as shaking someone's hand. The sex I've had in serious relationships is an entirely different experience than what I've had casually. I'm sure there's a difference between how a person who has had one partner views sex and a person who has had 5 partners views it, but I don't think it becomes nothing. If I didn't view sex as special, I wouldn't have landed here after infidelity.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 2:52 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]