SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

cocoplus5nuts I am talking to my step MIL and his parents don't like it since his dad and her are in a process of getting a divorce because he cant handle her health going down hill and when ever my step MIL and I talk we talk about everything and she is the only one that I can actually talk to about the A and my true feelings without judgement like his parents due. His mom was cheated on so she should understand but she is being a complete BITCH to me and accusing me of stupid shit and trying to come between my H and I and that isnt gonna happen. She is the reason I talked to a lawyer because she tried telling me I had no rights to anything so I just talked to one.

BH you are welcome for the cotton ideas. I hope it helps.

My in-laws lived with us until they passed away. While I am glad that we were able to care for them when they needed it, I was never a fan of having so many involved in my marriage. Actually, his whole family has always felt that our marriage was their business. I have fought that for 25 yrs.

Since the A, I found my voice and my boundaries. I have hung up on them, left functions, or refused to go at all. It wasn’t easy and at first I received a lot of backlash, but it has been worth it. FINALLY, my marriage is just between the two of us, but for a very long time, I thought his family was going to be the end of us.

Stick to your guns and talk to whoever you damn well please. The others can suck it!

Glashalffull they think they need to be in every aspect of our marriage. My MIL asked my parents how long they think our marriage will last and when she found out about the A she said I saw this happening I'm not surprised because he was 21 years old when he got married. My MIL and FIL have no right to talk about my marriage when they are getting D for the 2nd time to their current spouses over some bullshit.

BH: WOW, really?! Asking how long the marriage will last?! They are a whole new kind of special, aren’t they? And don’ t tell me....your wh doesn’t see it, right? Yup. It’s an extra special kind of hell, having interfering in-laws.

For me, it got worse before it got better. WH was just so freaking blind to it all, which made it worse. Still, I was glad that I finally found my voice and stuck to my boundaries. It sucks. It’s hard, but it will give you peace in the long run.

Yup...they can totally suck it.

BH, they are ridiculous! Thank goodness you have your step MIL. His parents can fuck off! I hope he has told them as much.

I have discovered that I feel like a failure for wanting to leave my H. I don't feel like I failed my M. That's all on him. I feel like I failed at picking a decent guy. My M to this particular man was supposed to last because he was such a good guy. I don't want my boys to be from a broken home.

My H says D never enters his mind, ever! Is that possible? I think about it all the time. I guess my dad was right when he said that some Catholics think cheating is better that D.

Glashalffull My parents said the same thing on my wedding day but it wasnt about them. It was OUR day and his mom is a two face bitch because his sister is getting married at 22 to a guy who's been in jail and she supports that marriage but not ours. My H has been fighting it for 2 years (In March) and his mom doesn't get the picture but she will when he blocks her. The only family members he talks on a day to day is is Grandparents and they tell him not to answer his mom because she is just pissed you and your wife are happy and working through the A. She was hoping I would D him after I found out. But since neither one of us believe in D shes fuck.

cocoplus5nuts I am glad too she has been a rock through it all. You have no idea how many times he has told his parents to fuck off, drop dead, hung up on them, blocked them. Its funny to watch because my Parents and I have a friendship now and mom and dad understand why I chose to go back to him. I still love him and care about him. I know I can forgive him for this but its gonna take time and normality wont come back quickly but over time it will. I know that he is trying to fix this and he is doing 50% of the work and I need to put in the 50% of the work as well but right now I can't.

I grow up in a Catholic/Baptist household so I get both sides of that coin. My grandparents never believed in D and my parents don't either but my dad did somethings that my mom could have D him for but didn't. D now a days is just like going out buying a drink they happen way to much just for stupid reasons like my FIL and MIL reasons. My FIL is D my step MIL because he can't handle her health declining and my MIL is leaving my Step FIL because she doesn't want to be married to him anymore.

BH - Sounds like your ILs (sans your StepMIL) are people who don't need to be in your lives. Important part is that your H see how negative that influence is.

((Coco)) - DO NOT feel bad. We are not mind readers. We saw what they SHOWED us. You thought he was a good man. You hoped for a better life when you married him, and had two more boys with him. YOU are not to blame that he was broken. If you had known the information you know now (not even the cheating, but how his mind really works) then you would not have gotten involved. I KNOW if my WH had been honest about some of his actions and thoughts prior to marriage, I never would have married him. That does no good though. What's done is done. You got two more incredible kids. You have been able to stay at home and teach them. Don't waste another second feeling like you are a failure.

I'm from a broken home and I'm a pretty freaking fantastic person. I see my father (cheater) for the flawed man he is but I am beyond glad I did not have to deal with how he treats women. Instead, my mom modeled strength and resilience and most of all grace. She was always (and still is) kind to the man who destroyed her family. He was always welcome to be a part of our lives. He chose not to take her up on that much, but I always considered myself to live a charmed life full of love (before WH destroyed it that is!)

Had an emotional weekend. Saw new therapist Friday where she definitively diagnosed me with complex PTSD due to the second trauma of DDay 2's trickle truth. My body and mind are more comfortable in that heightened state and can't reset itself. We are going to start working on that next week, so that's positive. The hard part is that I've been in such denial the past few months that retelling the story has been killer. I came home from the appt and got into a screaming fight with WH, and we spent a good three hours crying. Then I watched my son at a soccer game, did volunteer work with my boy the next day, and WH asked me to go on a date with him. Which was surprisingly good. We went to a movie and a bar. We watched all of the couples around us either ignore each other for their phones, or saw the "split" of man/woman couples only talking to the same sex. It's crazy how much better our relationship is now even when our marriage is on such a teeter totter. Then on Sunday, Kobe's accident really threw me. I don't like him, but I kept thinking about his wife, and the wives, husbands and fathers and other children who lost their loved ones. If my H died, would I be glad that I held my ground, or would I have wished that I had enjoyed my time with someone who I know loves me and is working to be better? Why is it so important for me to "win" or be "right"? Ah, what a mind fuck infidelity is...

Happy Fucking Monday Womenz!

(And SMS, if you are reading out there, still thinking and praying for you and MisterSister.)

Holy fuck, y’all! My therapist just told me she thinks my H could be a covert narcissist! She did say she could be wrong since she hasn’t met him. She’s only going by what I have told her. This was after I told her about what happened when he went on his business trip and after.

I don’t know what to do. Was all of this for nothing?

Ok, I had started to write a long reply to include everyone, but I'm not finished yet, and I have to leave for therapy in about 20 minutes, so I want to get this out for you coco because I can imagine hearing that put you into a little bit of a crisis mode.

Lady, it is so weird that your therapist said this to you, because I've been thinking about this based on your last few posts and threads about what's going on with you guys.

The more you've revealed about his behavior lately, it is passive-aggressive, and conflict avoidant, sure, that we already sussed out. But it is also incredibly selfish and self-serving. He is sounding less and less like the poor CoD guy who didn't feel loved (still fucked up and frustrating in its own way, of course), and more and more like a manipulator.

His ability to compartmentalize and not talk to you for several days is very strange to me. Then his justification of it for "lack of signal" or whatever the heck. Your gut is screaming at you that isn't the whole truth, which is why you're so angry about it.

His pushing for the move to CA, and especially his discussing said move with your son when he knows that you don't want to go and it's something that needs to be worked out. That's some flying monkey shit right there. I wouldn't be surprised if the conversation with your son re: how you've been "abusive" to your fCH came from a seed that your fCH planted. Also, the condom wrapper incident comes to mind again. I know you said you spoke to your son, and after discussion, he admitted it was his. But given recent revelations re: your fCH's selfish behavior when it comes to not communicating with you and now his "CA-or-bust" attitude, that would give me pause.

Coverts are also known as codependent narcissists, so I can see how your guys' focus on the CoD could distract from the potential for narcissism.

FWIW, I didn't believe that my XH would be on the NPD spectrum because in my mind, NPDs don't exhibit all of the outward self-loathing that my XH did/does. IRL I've only known the classic narcissist - the I'm so awesome, look at me, type that my industry is full of. But the more I've been researching DBT, schema work, re-parenting, abandonment wounds etc. for myself, I've found a whole hell of a lot of info in there re: BPD and/or covert NPD that fit the bill too perfectly to be a coincidence.

Your therapist is right, she hasn't met him, so she wouldn't be able to say definitively. But there is something to be said for gut instincts. FWIW, neither of my therapists have met my X, and they both say his behavior is characteristic of narcissism, though one thinks he is more likely BPD with narcissistic tendencies, and I tend to agree with her as she has more experience (they share a lot in common anyway).

I hear and understand your frustration re: making a bad choice. A significant portion of my work in therapy recently has been forgiving myself for choosing the man I chose. For wasting a huge chunk of my child-bearing years on him. IMO, the bigger part of recovery that is still ongoing, is finding ways to forgive myself, not for the choice I made, but for ignoring my gut when making that choice.

I actually have a whole list of gut check things that I ignored that I'm bringing in to my therapy appointment today. I wrote out what the red flags were, what they specifically activated in my gut response, how I chose to react to them, and why/what mental schemas I used to justify ignoring them.

I still have an ongoing battle in my mind of not wanting to be a victim, but also acknowledging that I was acted upon, so these things were not in my control. I have to stick to my side of the street so to speak. It makes me very uncomfortable to think about how in many instances, he skillfully preyed upon my vulnerabilities, but I also allowed him to.

I know it's easier said than done, but try not to catastrophize. I'm sure that is very difficult when you hear the words "covert narcissism" come out of your therapist's mouth right as you're dealing with such blatant disrespect from your fCH.

In response to your question, "Was all of this for nothing," I'll repeat back to you something you said to all of us Womenz earlier in our thread: Sometimes, there doesn't need to be a point. Just being is enough. But even if everything blows up, you still got something out of this. You got two more amazing kids out of the deal. You got years spent at home with them. You have yoga. Hell, not to toot our own horns, but you have us womenz!!

Ok, gonna be late to therapy now, but just wanted to reply quickly. Hugs to you, and I hope your day gets better!!

Also, hugs to everyone. I so appreciate your kind words when I was having a breakdown the other day. Will be back to post an update on that later

Coco,

Both WH and I came from families with three children. His was three boys, mine three girls.

Yet, 2/3 of the sons in his family cheated. Both of my sisters did too

HHADL, you are now the 3rd person who has said they suspected my H was narcissistic. My therapist used the term codependent narcissist, too. I didn't know it was possible to be CoD and narcissistic. I have no idea what that looks like.

She has been talking to me more about having compassion for myself. She said I'm really good at taking care of others (who knew?) and really good at other forms of self care, but I'm not so good with self compassion. I am definitely having hard time now trying to figure out how I could let this happen.

Don't get me wrong about my boys. I love them all and wouldn't trade them for the world. But, if it weren't for my H, I probably wouldn't have had more kids. I was not the little girl who dreamed of getting married and having babies when she grew up. When I met my H, I wasn't even interested in a relationship. I was just getting free lunches.

I decided to quit my job and have babies because of him. Not because that's what he wanted. He didn't want that. He liked the money I made and he only wanted one more kid, maybe, although he was fine with just my son. I made those decisions for myself because I was finally with someone who I felt safe with. Finally, someone who would take care of me so I wouldn't have to work so hard.

There were definitely things about him that I didn't like, but I wouldn't call them red flags. They were things like him being Republican and Catholic and being more focused on material things than me. Haha! That's a funny sentence. I thought those things could be tolerated, accepted because he was such a good guy. I thought he was my only chance at a better life. There wasn't going to be anyone else as good as him. Ugh! It was all a lie.

Coco you didn’t let anything happen. The only person you control is you. My advice, for what it’s worth, is to focus on yourself and living your best life. You don’t need to feel any guilt for wanting to end your marriage. He cheated, that is reason enough. You made the best decisions you could, based on the information you had.

Thanks, NEA. That's what I've been trying to do these last 5 years. I'm quite happy with myself and my life except for this one albatross around my neck, my H. I don't know that I feel guilty about wanting to not be married to him anymore. I feel sad.

I feel sad that a D would hurt my children. I wish I could ask them how they'd feel about it, but I know I can't. I'm still not sure if I can do that to them. I am wondering if I could just stick out until they are grown.

I'd have about 10 more years. That's a long time. I'd be 60+. I know people will say I deserve better than a loveless M. But, I don't think I'd have any interest in trying to find someone else at this point. I'd rather just have my friends and be done with men. They are all assholes, even the "good" ones. Also, I wouldn't necessarily have to stay for 10 more years. I can, obviously, leave whenever I want. At least I don't have to walk out the door right this minute. My stupid H seems to think everything is ok now.

I feel sad that I'm just another statistic. I really thought that, if any M would survive, it would be ours, all because he was such a good guy.

I did a lot of reading on covert and codependent narcissists last night. I don't see my H in it. He maybe exhibits a couple of the behaviors sometimes, but everyone does. Honestly, I see myself in the overt narc category way more than I see my H at all. At least my therapist assured me that I am not a narc. I just have a healthy self esteem. Whew! Only took me almost 50 years to get it.

I'm sorry, womenz, that I've been so focused on myself. I feel like I'm dominating this thread. I want to know how and what everyone else is doing. Good, bad, and ugly. Tell me about it!

Forgot to mention (as I always do ) that I was reading another thread about a BW who was pretending everything was fine while she figured out how to get her ducks in a row and leave. Everyone was so supportive and encouraging. "You do what you have to. Take your time. No need to rush into anything." Interesting considering some of the responses to my thread about not moving to CA again if my H takes the command he's been offered.

FWIW, it's incredibly common for victims of narcissists to, upon researching narcissism, believe that they are in fact the narcissist. It is part of the abuse cycle, you've been made to think that everything that goes wrong is your fault. That even stating your boundaries is somehow an affront to your partner, or controlling.

They say that if you are asking yourself if you are a narcissist, it's unlikely that you are. Glad you got that reassurance from your IC. I too went through a chunk of time where I thought I might be NPD or BPD. IC has reassured me that I'm not. She has spent a lot of time reassuring me that my setting of boundaries was not controlling, it was protecting myself. But I also know that there is always room for confirmation bias, and of course she is only getting my side of the story.

Though I will say, I have spent an awful lot of time making excuses for why it's all my fault, so she's heard "his side" as well, at least what I was able to interpret from the cryptic shit he said in the last few weeks. My trauma wound is also still really fresh, so I think we'll also have to see what pans out once my mood stabilizes a bit more.

Problem with BPD is that it almost completely overlaps with C-PTSD, with only about 2 major symptoms that would make it a BPD diagnosis instead of C-PTSD. And given my history of emotional abuse from the SAXH, plus a little bit thrown in from my Dad in childhood, C-PTSD is the more likely diagnosis.

It's funny, because up until the A, I would have said I had a healthy self-esteem as well. I had worked really hard to get to that place too. I didn't know what DBT was back then, but now that I've researched it, I've realized that I was doing a lot of that stuff for myself already. I was intentionally challenging narratives when I would feel insecure or uncomfortable. I wouldn't automatically jump to a negative conclusion about something someone said. I allowed my intuition to bring out good, bad and even neutral possibilities in almost all situations. IOW, I wasn't choosing to have a entirely negative outlook, like many learned mental schemas will have you do, I was in fact challenging those schemas.

I dressed how I want, ate what I want, didn't wear makeup because I didn't like it and didn't feel pressured to just to "fit in." I said what I felt, and didn't feel bad for having an opinion. I was clear about my boundaries, and didn't make apologies for them. I felt healthy, and whole.

But his exit A really fucked up how I view all of that. I now almost every session of IC need reassurance that my behavior in being confident, setting boundaries etc. was not in fact controlling, and did not contribute to the downfall of my marriage. He had/has me convinced that it was, emotionally, even if logically I can see that it wasn't. That's what emotional abuse does to you though.

Is it possible that you have C-PTSD from living with your narc mom all those years? Long term, sustained emotional abuse will do it.

I still have that great long post to reply to you guys, but I have today off and am about to go pick up DD20 for a girls day, so that will have to wait 'til later.

Oh, and coco, re: the smaller red flags you noticed - different political leanings than you, religious when you are an atheist, materialistic - yeah, all of those were on my list too. In trying to be non-judgmental and accepting, I decided that I should accept these things for what they were. If I could be accepting of him, then he would be accepting of me, we could both live together knowing that different is different, not necessarily wrong. However, I learned that doesn't always work, if you have a particularly manipulative person you're dealing with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being of any particular political leaning, or religion, or even of liking nice things, but some people twist what would be considered good, ethical ideologies to fit their own agendas. His ability to twist things to fit his narrative should have been of more concern to me than his actual political leanings or religious upbringing. Oh well, live and learn.

Oh, but did want to share a brief update. After I had that breakdown the other night, I kind of had a breakthrough of sorts. I met some new people on set at work the next day, and due to some delays, we had a significant chunk of down time in the middle of the day, and we all got to talking. I kind of got into more in depth conversation with one girl and one guy in particular. I didn't even realize what had happened until after we had stopped talking, but all of a sudden I thought, wow, did we just vibe a little bit? Through a little bit further of conversation later in the day, I think, in fact, we might have?

Soooo, long story short, I think I have a crush on a guy through work? I'm terrible at reading signals now. I've been out of the dating game for nearly 8 years. He could just be a super nice, amiable guy. He has a really, really nice smile that has a way of sucking me in. I can't help but question myself and think that he's just a nice guy, with a nice smile, who is being nice, just as I would be nice to anyone. I would love to find out if there's something more to it than that, I'm just not really sure how.

I think we've had some good, albeit short, convos. Not particularly flirtatious, but I also wouldn't necessarily expect that in a work environment. Unfortunately I haven't been able to talk to him too much, even during our down time, because my supervisor is a hawk and even if we are standing around waiting until we are needed like we are supposed to (there's a lot of "hurry up and wait" in our industry), she gets weird about anyone talking to anyone outside of our department. Problem is, this job ends in about 2 weeks, so I kind of have to make a move sooner rather than later.

Arrggghh it would be so much easier to gauge if we were out at a bar or something. I feel like when you're out, and you talk to someone of the opposite sex for a few minutes, you can immediately tell if something is going to happen or not. But at work, they could just be making conversation because we all have to be there for 10 hours+, and it makes the time pass.

I've recruited a work friend to help me suss out the situation. We'll see if it goes anywhere. If it doesn't, well, I'm trying to look at this positively in that I'm not dead inside!

ETA: I'm well aware of my fragile state right now. Which is why I think I'm being overly cautious about potentially reading into anything. I still have my DBA chip, and I intend on keeping it! No. More. Assholes

[This message edited by HeHadADoubleLife at 12:12 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]

Coco- because you asked.

I inadvertently changed the printer at work to Spanish. Now not only is it still not working, we can't figure out what it's telling us about why.

New Halsey song I heard recently. The video is weird as hell and has absolutely nothing to do with the lyrics but damn if these lyrics don’t make me want to buy her a drink and say “Girrrrrrrrrrl, same!”

Halsey - You Should Be Sad

I wanna start this out and say

I gotta get it off my chest

Got no anger, got no malice

Just a little bit of regret

Know nobody else will tell you

So there's some things I gotta say

Gonna jot it down and then get it out

And then I'll be on my way

No, you're not half the man you think that you are

And you can't fill the hole inside of you with money, drugs and cars

I'm so glad I never ever had a baby with you

'Cause you can't love nothin' unless there's somethin' in it for you

Oh, I feel so sorry

I feel so sad

I tried to help you

It just made you mad

And I had no warnin'

About who you are

I'm just glad I made it out without breakin' down

And then ran so fuckin' far

That you would never ever touch me again

Won't see your alligator tears

'Cause, no, I've had enough of them

Let me start this off by sayin'

I really meant well from the start

Take a broken man right in my hands

And then put back all his parts

But you're not half the man you think that you are

And you can't fill the hole inside of you with money, girls and cars

I'm so glad I never ever had a baby with you

'Cause you can't love nothin' unless there's somethin' in it for you

Oh, I feel so sorry (I feel so sorry)

I feel so sad (I feel so sad)

I tried to help you (I tried to help you)

It just made you mad

And I had no warnin' (I had no warnin')

About who you are ('bout who you)

Just glad I made it out without breakin' down

Oh, I feel so sorry (I feel so sorry)

I feel so sad (I feel so sad)

I tried to help you (I tried to help you)

It just made you mad

And I had no warnin' (I had no)

About who you are ('bout who you)

'Bout who you are

Hey

Hey

Hey

Hey

'Cause you're not half the man you think that you are

And you can't fill the hole inside of you with money, drugs and cars

I'm so glad I never ever had a baby with you

'Cause you can't love nothin' unless there's somethin' in it for you

I feel so sad

You should be sad

You should be

You should be sad

You should be

You should be

You should be

[This message edited by HeHadADoubleLife at 12:46 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]

TX1995 they are a bad influence and I am glad he finally sees what I have been saying since we got married. He is also realizing that the OW meant nothing to him not like I do.

cocoplus5nuts you need to focus on you and do what is best for you.

Chaos! It took me a minute to figure out what you were talking about.

HHADL, is there something you teo have in common that would be a good reason for exchanging numbers or maybe friending each other on Facebook or something? Or, you could just flat out ask him on a date. Maybe wait until the job is almost over so it doesn't get awkward he declines.

you've been made to think that everything that goes wrong is your fault. That even stating your boundaries is somehow an affront to your partner, or controlling.

My H hasn't done this to me. If anything, it has been the other way around. Same with the other stuff you mentioned. I never felt like he was trying to manipulate me to change me. He doesn't say disparaging things about my political leanings or lack of religion. Again, it's the other way around. I do ten to say disparaging things about religion and Republicans. He won't even disagree with me.

I don't know what C-PTSD is. I have done some EMDR about my issues with my mom. Problem is that there isn't one or a few specific incidence that I can name to work through. It was a general, pervasive atmosphere. I accepted my mom for who she was about 10 years ago. I finally accepted that she was just doing the best she could and it wasn't ok. I stopped hoping for something different from her. I mourned the loss of never having that loving, caring mother/daughter dynamic.

It was really bizarre after she did. Everyone wanted to talk to me about what a wonderful person she was. Everyone wanted to express their sympathy toward me and how much I must be missing her. I wasn't sad when she died. I have never missed her. By the time she died, she really was nothing special to me. 🤷‍♀️

Dammit! Forgot something again.

I wasn't wondering if I had BPD. I have wondered a few times over many years if I have BD. My aunt has been diagnosed with BD. I've had major depressive disorder since I was probably 13. Diagnosed when I was 15. I was diagnosed with BD during one hospital stay when I was in my early 20s. The latest questions came about when I was hospitalized again in 2016. I was given a battery of tests that are part of the normal intake for every patient. That's how I know I was not diagnosed with BD or BPD. I got the same diagnosis I've always had, major depressive disorder. So, my H did have some basis for wondering about those things with me. He didn't just pull them put of thin air.