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You’re going through hell at the moment and it is very early on in your R activities. I don’t want to sound harsh but you need to get tough with your wife. She’s manipulating you.

If her response is she wants you "both to be happy", the logical next question is "together or apart?"

Her answer will tell you a a lot.

If she says "I don't know" that means apart. The only together answer is together.

just think you both need some time apart. see how you both feel when the other isn't a constant presence. you may find you both miss each other more than you both think. you may not.

[This message edited by MrRadical at 4:43 AM, March 12th (Tuesday)]

Bahama, my suggestion is that you put yourself first, your WW certainly is not doing that. Find your self-preservation instinct, Sir. Get out of your WW's infidelity.

[This message edited by LtCdrLost at 4:29 AM, March 12th (Tuesday)]

I might be mistaken in a way I see Mrs Bahama, but based on the information provided in this thread, I believe she would have preferred D, initiated by Bahama, of course.

If only for that reason, D should not be offered to her as a quick solution and en escape from the mess she created.

I'm in favour of hard 180... even mild will do for now. You need to stop projecting on her your feelings and wishes, this enables her to be passive and keeps her emotionally attached to AP. As long as you are there for her, an available option, she can pine for her AP forever. Please do not comfort her, when she faces the ugly reality and breaks down. It is necessary and therapeutical for her and for any chance of successful R. How can she understand your pain and support you if she has not felt it and you are shielding her every time the opportunity presents itself? When she has a melt down, you should be the one who go for a walk and leave her to sit with this pain and realize what she is going to loose.

It might not be a priority for you, but freeing your wife from responsibilities of M, will give her a desired option to pursue an AP and destroy another M as well. OBS has a right to make the decision about her M without your wife hovering over AP and dragging him back in A.

180 will allow you to focus on yourself and children, withdraw from the intensity of the emotions, and detach from WW who does not appear to be particularly remorseful, which kind of a 'normal' behaviour for a wayward. Also, a back up plan, on how would you act if she resumes A or decide to D [worse case scenario], could reduce the anxiety and give you some peace of mind.

Although I wish you to act in the most advantageous way, I understand that those first few weeks following DD are so traumatic, overwhelming and confusing, that most BSs react spontaneously and can not control their responses to WW behaviour. take care of yourself.

My concern right now is that a lot of people have emotion tied up in B because he seems like a genuinely nice guy and we are investing ourselves in him. Our emotion is coming across in our posts. Right now, he needs less emotion in his life rather than more.

Bahama - the email and the birth control are important data points that change the risk profile from our advisory capacity. I don’t think that anyone knows what precisely she is thinking. This is what drives Bigger nuts.

My concern right now is that a lot of people have emotion tied up in B because he seems like a genuinely nice guy and we are investing ourselves in him. Our emotion is coming across in our posts. Right now, he needs less emotion in his life rather than more.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

This

It's so early. I know my emotions we're all over the place when I learned about my H's affairs. I had a lot of Bahama's emotions (anger, sadness, care for my WS, fear, love, great sex) My H has also grown a lot over the past year. He always wanted R, but it took awhile for him to really move out of the "the As happened because of lack of attention to our M" place to "the As happened because I was really self absorbed and selfish and liked the escape and excitement". We had the advantage that the As were over for more than a year. I remember what my H was like when he was at the end of his last A (I didn't know he was cheating, but he was a mess) and it would have made it even harder.

Bahama, take care of yourself. Looking for a job might help you feel more in control, which is good. Don't believe everything your wife tells you, most WS lie about the past. I wish I had known this. They don't want to hurt you, they are ashamed, they worry that you will leave them, ... The list goes on. It doesn't mean she doesn't love you or want to be with you. But she will like and she will minimize the truth. You will need to decide what you want. I wouldn't accept lies about present actions - but that's my line, it may not be yours.

Do what feels right to you.

You are getting manipulated!

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:30 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

I do not see this A as an exit A for WW, It seems like it was an EA that ended up sexual, meaning that attention and emotion were the currency.

Some WS in an EA may consider if the fantasy became full time would,life ve better? But I don't see the signs of a true exit affair. The decision tree does not necessarily mean they were ever committed to exit.

I see this as possibly being an exit affair for the WW. Perhaps not for the AP. Decision tree, wanting D, contacting lawyer, etc. Change of mind after contacting lawyer or, perhaps, because AP decides to try and R with his BS.

R and D are still options, Bahama. There's a long road ahead either way.

I do not see this A as an exit A for WW

You could be correct Trdd.

The decision tree does not necessarily mean they were ever committed to exit.

Or maybe not, if this were the only piece of evidence supporting the exit affair theory, I would probably agree.

The problem I see is, there is more evidence suggesting a exit affair.

The only one that can truly weigh the evidence is Bahama. He has all the knowledge about what is going on. As we all know, sometimes it is what is not said, or how things are said that can indicate how a person is going to act.

Unfortunately, from what Bahama has posted here, I feel he is too emotionally attached at the present time to be able to see things with clarity.

From the start the "decision tree" has sounded to me like 1 of the parties wanted to divorce and 1 did not. Sounds like OM did not.

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:30 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

Do not agree with WW being certain or significantly contemplating of exit at any point. A captivating EA with friend and training partner... it is an entrancing fantasy but not an exit A.

Obviously, none of us know for sure though. I am hoping Bahama and WW get what

they need, whatever that is.

My WW finally has a day off today and both of our kids were in school. We had a semi-productive talk this morning and I managed to remain calm and tried to listen to her. She gave me some clarity about where she is and what she is thinking. I'm trying to let it all come out and back off on my pushing for more information. She talked and cried more than I did. I took some time after we spoke to process what had been said. I wrote it out in a sort of journal entry. This is what I said.

"I am not to blame for what my wife has chosen to do. It has everything to do with her and nothing to do with me. I am a good person who has always tried to make her happy.

I listened to her this morning. I tried not to judge, defend, or take offence. I feel that she has built me up to her affair partner as this terrible person to her for so long that she doesn’t see the good I try to do for her and our family. I feel she has distorted our situation to him for so long that it has become her reality. I respect her feelings. They are hers and probably truly how she feels right now. I think the fantasy of the affair has made her see me as the bad guy and her affair partner as the good guy. Their relationship was not deep nor based in the realities of life. It was young and fresh and made her feel good. That is all. She is still in the fog. I wonder if she will ever realize what she’s lost in me. What she is losing. Only her actions will tell me if I’m still something she wants in her life. Only her actions will tell me if I still want to share my life with her.

I don’t see enough action or hear enough words from her yet that she is remorseful to me. I don’t feel she is concerned for me and what she has done for me. She still has a vision of me as the bad guy despite my efforts to show her how much I care for her and how much I love her and want her to be happy. It’s all I’ve ever really wanted. She has resentment towards me for exposing the affair to our families and her sister. She doesn’t understand why I did that and she hates me for it. She also hates that I’ve maintained communication with the other betrayed spouse. It makes her feel unsafe to talk to me for fear that I’ll spread her sorrow, pain and fear to her and others. She’s not communicating with me fully because she doesn’t trust me. Her fear of embarrassment is greater than her desire to help me or try to fix the situation. That makes me sad. I want her to be willing to do anything to save our marriage. I’m not convinced she will yet. I hope she will come around. I hope I can wait that long.

I think she is still mourning the loss of the affair partner and the feelings she got from him more than anything. I think she is mourning the loss of a blemish free history and has a lot of regret for getting caught and seeing herself as an adulterer. She feels shame in front of the people who know what she has done, including me. I still feel like plan B. I feel like the only reason she is still here with me is because the rest of her world has crumbled. I often wonder had the affair partner said he was going to leave his wife and asked mine to come with him what she would have done. She admitted the affair only ended because they got caught and he ran back to his wife, throwing her under the bus.

She is sad “for everything.” She is depressed beyond imagine. She told me she has been having “horrible thoughts” about herself. Her only companion right now is me and I’m a mess. She feels like she has to dread seeing me because I’m consumed by this and only want to get out of it. I want to get past the pain just as much as she does. She just wants it all to go away. So do I, but that’s not grounded in reality. I won’t just rug sweep this problem. I tell her we have to keep talking. We have to talk about things that are uncomfortable and painful for us both. I keep pushing her to talk and to work on the problem with me. She’s having a hard time engaging in the process in that way. She has her guard up.

She talks about how experiences are more important than things to her. That she has dreams and I only crush them. The past couple years the only experiences she has seemed excited about are her triathlons and other endurance events. She has been very selfish putting them ahead of planning family vacations or time with me. She was excited about planning them with her affair partner. She loved doing them with her affair partner. I wish she would have put as much energy as she did for her training and relationship with her affair partner into fixing the issues she saw with our relationship. I wish I had been as much as a priority as her desires to do what she wanted. I feel left behind. It’s hard not to feel blame when she tells me that she’s been lonely and unappreciated for so long and that is why she had the affair. I perhaps accept some of the blame for contributing to her feelings, but I don’t take any blame for her affair actions.

I see that the affair took a lot of energy and planning to maintain. All the lies and betrayals took effort. I wish she would at least put as much effort into fixing our relationship as she did the affair. She was excited to see her affair partner, do things with him, make plans with him. I wish she had that same enthusiasm for me and our relationship.

Any remorse she has for what she has done to me seems more hidden or non-existent than it was even at the beginning of the aftermath. She doesn’t seem fearful that I might leave her even though I haven’t clearly expressed that it’s still a possibility. She doesn’t seek me out for comfort. She wallows in her own self-pity. She mourns for her lost fantasy life in the affair.

I asked her this morning to tell me exactly what dreams she felt I had crushed for her. She looked surprised that I would even ask and yet stumbled to tell me things. The examples she gave were that any time she told me about a race she wanted to do that I always automatically said no or was unhappy that she was doing it. She said she wanted a new triathlon outfit and I’d said I wish she’d not spend so much money on all these things she doesn’t really need. She talked about how she’s wanted another dog for a few years now and I’ve always said I don’t want another dog. I’m terribly allergic to dogs. We have a dog. We had two when we got married. What a dream crusher I am.

The bottom line is she has a lot of built up issues with me that she can’t let go of. I don’t see anything so wrong in our marriage that would justify her affair. It’s minor bullshit stuff that she should have more forcefully worked out with me. Her affair partner backed up her frustrations and gave her encouragements to do what she wants to do. He didn’t have to look at our bank account and see that we had more charged on a credit card than we had in our checking. She never had to do that either. Still, it’s my fault to her that she can’t do anything and everything she wants and more. She wanted to live the carefree life that her affair partner has. She saw me as an anchor to her dreams. I would have been happy to be part of the solution if she’d been better at talking to me and expressing herself. I see relationships as give and take.

I don’t know what happens now. She said this morning she didn’t know what I need to get over this. I told her I need to work through everything. I mentioned the fact that I had purchased the book for her called “How to Help Heal Your Spouse After Your Affair.” I reminded her how she had scoffed at the title when I showed it to her and how she never looked at it again. I told her if she wanted to know how to help me on my end that reading that book would be a good place to start. She agreed to do it, but I’m not sure her heart is into it.

She goes for individual counseling on Thursday. I fear that she thinks the counselor is just going to tell her what she should do. Instead it’s going to be a process of her finding out what she wants to do and why she has done what she did.

I just can’t read her right now. I think she is all mixed up about what she wants. She’s feeling isolated and unsure. She’s devastated by all the damage she has caused for herself. I feel a little bit sorry for her because I love her. I have to step back though and see if she follows me or not. I can’t be the one who is chasing her to save our marriage. She has to want it more than even I do."

One day at a time, one moment at at time.

D-Day 2/22/19

I backed off on the birth control for now. I clearly explained that it bothered me and I think she understands why. I do think her motivation for wanting to continue it is related to depression and PMDD. I gave the comparison that if I was caught having an affair and told you about my drawer full of condoms, and then refused to throw them out how that would look. She nodded her head that she could see that comparison. I told her if she really got some help from them, then I saw that as something that might help us so to continue. I did let her know that it is a trigger for me though and to perhaps move to taking them in secret. I heard her rattling the pill bottles at bedtime as is her routine, but now I know that one of the pills is birth control she started for the affair. It bothered me greatly.

Her appearance to me in how she is handling this situation and what she wants changes day to day. She has shown me signs of remorse and attraction to me again, yet on other days she seems disconnected. I'm taking time to process my feelings and I guess I should give her the same chance. I don't want her back because she feels guilty or stuck. I want her to want me. That's what she's going to have to show me.

The rewriting of the marital history, the distortion of what you think are minor issues into major ones and justification for the A, are very typical. This helps her to deal with the mismatch in her brain for what she was doing and her self image. She thinks of herself as a good person but she was doing a shitty thing. If she makes the marriage shitty and you the cause then she can feel better about the Affair and reconcile in her mind that she is still a good person. Dealing with this is one of the things she needs to get to in IC.

My thought about the whole "I am a crappy person. I can't believe you would stay with me." Is meant for you to say to her that she is not that bad and helps her out of her mental jam. The problem is that it could lead to her thinking that she wasn't that bad so you must really be that shitty.

you are doing well bahama. stay your course with her, but put you first. easier said than done, we all know too well unfortunately.

it seems your wife hasnt hit rock bottom yet. is it possible that she is in contact with ap?

Bahama:

Gently...

She is not a candidate for reconciliation right now.

What you are doing is essentially dragging her to reconciliation. No surprise, then, that she is pulling the opposite way...due to a myriad of factors.

What would happen if you simply dropped the rope and started walking your own way? She would have to either choose to stay put, or choose to walk with you.

Until she is faced with that choice, nothing will change.

Please understand that I say this with much compassion brother...you are too scared to force her to make that choice.

And you know what? She damn well knows it.

Until you overcome your fear of losing her, nothing will change.

Nothing...to include you remaining in limbo.

Sorry it has come to this, brother.

[This message edited by farsidejunky at 2:34 PM, March 12th (Tuesday)]