SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The more I think about it, the more I think you should confront with your own flowchart. There should be about 20 paths to divorce and exactly 1 to R, with lots of branches off of it to D. Don’t even tell her you’ve seen hers.

I like it!!!!!

I would have a VAR hidden in WW car and the house before you confront your WW.

Once you confront then give WW space and dollars to

doughnuts she will call the OM and those VAR's will

get you the proof you need.

Do I need more?

I don't believe you need more evidence to confront, there is enough already. She is purposely deceiving you with her hidden communications. If there was nothing to hide she would not have the secret accounts and be deleting things. Whatever you do, don't tell her how you got the information.

At the very least she is having an EA but it is probably a PA. Follow the advice - see an attorney ASAP, focus on protecting you, your children, and your finances. See your doctor ASAP for STD testing and help sleeping. Get IC for you, if the first doesn't seem a good fit, find another.

I agree that you already have plenty of evidence. But it's up to you. Just like the decision to R is yours (not hers).

Here's what you know: progressively more time spent together, criticism of you in favor of the OM, deleted phone logs, deleted text messages, deleted email, secret email account (Gen Petraeus’s cheater tool of choice), and the decision tree.

Her unusually thorough and consistently secretive behavior is not characteristic of ‘just friends’. It’s characteristic of infidelity (both EA and PA).

Generally, I think it’s wise to not disclose ‘what’ and ‘how’ you know.

Why? First, because she’ll dismiss or minimize your evidence.

Second, because you both know she’s guilty of an affair (EA or PA). Therefore, don’t dignify her affair (and secretive behavior) by accepting her challenge to prove anything to her.

Finally, refusing to discuss the evidence adds to: the credibility of your evidence, your decisiveness & your control, - and sends a non-negotiable message that you will D vs tolerate her behavior.

Timing is very tricky and must be planned out and executed properly. Most folks get mad and loose the element of surprise in these situation and blow a lot of leverage. I would suggest a few things to get you started.

1. Consult with an attorney, you don't need to file, but you need to know your rights, so you can make informed decisions.

2. Set up a new account in only your name and start to squirrel a few dollars here and there. Nothing that would raise an alarm.

3. Gather all the evidence you can, again without alarming your wife.

4. Dust off your resume and see what type of work you can find. You don't have to hunt yet, but you need to be prepared.

5. Develop a plan for splitting assets and child care. Having a plan will put you ahead in the game.

When you do confront I would recommend the following (although branch tree ^^^ to reconciliation is a great idea).

You sit her down (make sure you have D papers on hand. They don’t have to be 100%. You can print a template off line.) And ask her if she’s having an affair?

She’ll respond with a No.

Then you say “Honey, I’m going to ask you one more time, are you having an affair, and your answer will depend on whether we talk to a shrink or I talk to an attorney”

[This message edited by BBBD at 1:40 PM, February 24th (Sunday)]

Buster, you suggested also notifying friends and family as a means of pressure to end the contact? What is your thinking there on time frame? That seems harsh unless it's necessary to get my WS to go NC post-confrontation. It seems that this could really sabotage any chances of reconciliation later on.

Also, is it wrong to use the threat of exposing the A to friends and family if she doesn't go NC and work on us? Or should I just hold that card and do it when it feels right related to her behavior and the progression of the situation?

Cheaters try to justify their A's by rewriting M history, they blame their WS in order to justify their behavior, of course they do this in secret, A's thrive in the dark, if more people know about the A, it would be that much harder for them to hide it, they couldn't meet in a public place for fear of being spotted by some of your mutual friends or relatives, also they sometimes tell their closest friends that their M is not good but never tell them the real reason why (the A), if she talks to her friends after confrontation for support, most of them, especially those who know you will NOT support her behavior, especially husbands of her friends.

Another reason I often cite is the fact that if a successful R is at all possible, she needs to remember the A as the one thing that destroyed her life as she knew it and reputation and integrity, not remember it as something beautiful and romantic, if she hates the A, she will hate the AP. Again A's thrive in secrecy, the more light you shine on it the better.

OTH, you already have more than enough to confront, you have solid proof, I would still get a few VARs and place one in her car just to know what she will tell her AP after confrontation, you can get them at Walmart or Best Buy (take a few minutes to learn how to use them first and mute any sounds and put black tape on any lights).

Sorry you find yourself here. I agree that you do have enough to confront your WW. I would see your doctor first then a lawyer to learn all your options and rights. A well prepared person in confronting a WW is far more important then flying by the seat of your pants. By being informed of all your possible outcomes, you can stir the conversation the way you want upon confrontation. As others have said, DO NOT DIVULGE YOUR SOURCES. Just tell her you know she is cheating. Then lay out her options. Starting with, she finds someplace else to sleep. She broke the marriage vows, broke the trust, broke the commitment. She loses the right to use the marital bed. Put a lock on the door. Move her things out. Ask her to leave the house so you can try to begin to heal from her betrayal. You can not force her to leave. As other have said, having VARs is paramount for learning more and also for your own safety if she wants to file a false DV charge on you. Start documenting all interactions between you and your WW. Also document all of the child responsibilities you have. Getting g them to school, after school activities, taking them to the doctor's, etc.

You are just starting the biggest battle of your life. The more prepare you are, the better your outcome will be, whether your able to R or D.

This is all helping. Thank you again. It's amazing how a group of strangers with a common experience can help me out so much via a screen and keyboard.

I just returned from the doctor and was given some meds to get me under control and hopefully get some sleep. I'm following up on Friday to see how they are working and perhaps get the STD test done. I was actually amazed because the doc sat with me in the room for about :30 hearing my whole story and giving me some gentle guidance. I wonder if I'll be billed for medical care or therapy?

Lot's of good advice given on here. Thank you to everyone for taking the time to reply to my questions and posts.

I think people differ on their tolerance for drama and confrontation. I'm a keep the peace and avoid drama kind of person so I know that is playing into my anxiety. I can and WILL however be on my A game when it comes to the confrontation. This can not be avoided or dismissed.

[This message edited by Bahama at 8:18 AM, March 21st (Thursday)]

I'm another member like others here saying to go see your attorney first before you implement anything suggested here. You have an advantage of knowing before the affair is exposed. Implementing some if this advice can have more impact if done under legal guidance. Some of this can shoot you in the foot without it.

Ask your attorney if adultery has any bearing in divorce un your state. If so, what kind if evidence has impact? Will a hiring a PI be worth it?

Ask your attorney if recording conversations are legal in your state.

Ask your attorney what to do in situations if false DV charges are a possibility. What should you do in that situation in your jurisdiction.

Ask your attorney if you can legally start separating money in accounts and if so what is the best way to do this.

Ask your attorney if you can get temporary orders where you and your daughters get exclusive use of home since you are SAHD. Also a TO to insure expenses will be paid during a possible separation.

Ask your attorney about custody scenarios should this go to divorce.

Are you getting the gist if this?

The more scenarios you run through and understand, the more of your rights as a spouse and a father you are aware of, the more your fear and confusion will melt away to help you tackle one of the most, if not THE most difficult time you ever come across in your life.

See. Lawyer. First.

We ade all rooting for you Bahama.

I also had the idea for doing a flow chart, but that would divulge your sources. Once she know her email is compromize, thete goes that source of information.

Stay calm and in control. If she denies, tell her: I’m sorry you feel that way. I’ll be talking to my attorney. Then walk away and go play with the kids.

I am a little surprised that I am the first to say this. Veteran SI members, please correct me if you think I might be wrong.

THIS IS NOT AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR. I say this because they are openly calling it "The Affair," to one another, in writing.

I have never, ever heard of an emotional affair in which the parties involved think or talk about it as "an affair" prior to discovery, much less talk to each other about it in those terms. They are universally in denial that what they are doing counts as "an affair." They call it a close or intimate "friendship," or something along those lines. And it is usually a very difficult task to get them to see and admit to themselves/their partners that what they were doing amounts to infidelity.

The fact that they are openly describing their relationship as "the affair" says to me that it is 100% certainly sexual in nature. At the very least, there has been explicitly sexual talk between them (i.e. "sexting") and exchange of sexual photos/videos, and because they have been spending so much time together, it is HIGHLY improbable that they have not had physical/sexual contact, and most likely have had intercourse. Again, them referring to it to one another as an "affair" screams to me that they have crossed enough blatant lines together that they are not even trying to pretend that whatever is going on is something other than an "affair."

Think about it: at what point in your relationship with a female friend would you start talking TO HER about your relationship as "the affair"?

I say this because people who are hoping to learn that something is other than it seems are vulnerable to believing lies that seem to fulfill that hope. Please watch for that. Cheaters will always give you as sanitized a version of their betrayal as they believe you will accept. We BS's usually have to get the truth by stubbornly refusing to believe what they say, long beyond the point we hoped the full story would end.

DO NOT go into this confrontation hoping to learn that this was not more than an emotional affair. Go into it refusing to accept that version of events. Because it does not make sense.

I am a little surprised that I am the first to say this. Veteran SI members, please correct me if you think I might be wrong.

THIS IS NOT AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR. I say this because they are openly calling it "The Affair," to one another, in writing.

Yup, 100%. She has been having sex with this guy for quite a while. In my situation, WS and AP were going on "bike rides" -- if you want to call his boner a bike -- I suppose that's true. They departed for the open road and made a hard left at the first opening in the woods, first hotel, first exit to her house. I'll even bet that they have been running fewer and fewer miles as the "training" has ramped up and all that time with him is 80% sexy time, 10% logistics and 10% training at this point.

Her underwear after her "workouts" will have residue that can be tested. Not sure if this is any help for you in your state but if infidelity gives you a stronger position in divorce court, that's one sure way to prove she's been having sex with somebody else because his DNA will be there.

A quick google search is all it took to find out Tennessee is an "at fault" state, here's an excerpt of the family law firm article:

"In Tennessee, courts will consider which spouse caused the divorce, including a spouse’s adultery or abuse. Adultery is one of many specific legal grounds for an “at fault” divorce in Tennessee. However, if there is an agreed upon divorce, the parties may both be declared divorced without proof of fault."

"Once the alleged marital misconduct, adultery for instance, is proved by a preponderance of the evidence, the spouse’s guilt may be considered by the court when awarding alimony. Additionally, a party’s guilt could also be influential in the court’s child custody determination, depending upon the circumstances. A preponderance of the evidence is not an extremely difficult standard to satisfy either, as the evidence must only prove that something is more likely than not to be true.

Connecting Marital Fault to Tennessee Alimony

Marital guilt can have a significant impact on an alimony award in an at fault divorce in Tennessee. A party’s misconduct can affect the nature, amount, length, and manner of payment of alimony a spouse pays or receives. The judge can consider “the relative fault of the parties, in cases where the court, in its discretion, deems it appropriate to do so…” along with any other relevant factor. T.C.A. § 36-5-121(i).

Always be mindful that proof of the misconduct used to establish at fault grounds for Tennessee divorce may be comprised of the same proof of fault as the statutory factors for alimony awards. Take a moment to read about the Alimony Factors in Tennessee Divorce Law. Then take a look at Jeff Landers’ article on getting your ex to honor the alimony settlement terms.

photo infant child in tn at fault divorce

Connecting marital fault with child custody in Tennessee divorce

Connecting Marital Fault with Child Custody in Tennessee Divorce

Several of the 15 grounds for divorce in Tennessee require allegations that, if proved, could also influence the court’s child custody determination on legal decision-making and parenting time. If the child’s safety and well-being could be at risk because of a parent’s marital misconduct, then evidence of questionable parenting ability may be examined by the court.

In awarding child custody, the court considers all relevant factors. T.C.A. § 36-6-106. Many of those statutory factors could hinge upon the same evidence used to establish grounds for Tennessee at fault divorce. Consider how children of divorce might be harmed by the same facts and circumstances raised in the following Tennessee grounds for divorce:

Inappropriate marital conduct (for example, physical domestic violence to the other parent or the child);

Indignities (for instance, a child witnesses one parent’s attempt to cause the other parent physical pain);

Adultery (for example, a parent carrying on an extramarital affair in the child’s presence);

I could PM you the link or post it here if the Mods allow me to, however as others have said, it's better you talk to an attorney about your specific case, you have an advantage now and that is she doesn't know you know, therefore gathering more evidence is easier since their guard is down, don't tell OBS until you feel you have enough to prove adultery in court, discuss it with your attorney ASAP. The VARs are not to prove adultery in court, it's for you to know more about the A should you consider R, the more you know about the A, the more you know what you are forgiving in case of R.

Also - in Tennessee, it's a one-party consent state, meaning that if you are in the room at the time of the recording, that's all that is required. You do not have to tell her or let her know she's being recorded. However, if you are not there, and it's just her and OM, you cannot legally record the conversation.

WorstClubEver,

Thank you for the reminder. This is cake eating at its finest. “Hmmm should I choose my BF or my husband?”. It’s a very selfish attitude. She doesn’t seem to care at all about destroying her family. She knows what she’s do8ng and she doesn’t care. it’s all cake eating.

A “spaceghost” approach would be to have her served at work with a flowchart divorce agreement, but one would have to be pretty detached to do this (and decided on D). This stuff gets me too angry sometimes.

The best advice is to confront and have SI support bahama in whatever decision he makes, R or D.

Bahama,

Make sure you read Buster123 and k8la's post above.

You need to talk to a lawyer before you do anything especially with Tenn. being an at fault and no-fault state. Ask your lawyer about hiring a Private Investigator for evidence. Do the VAR in the car, but never admit to it and don't plan on using it as physical evidence. It is for your peace of mind that you are making the right decisions, and to give you some clues on places to look for other evidence. You are doing great so far and have very good instincts as well as a good moral compass to base your decisions upon.

It sounds like proving adultery is to your advantage financially as well as with child custody.

This is something to discuss with your attorney, including what type of evidence is required.

Perhaps you could leave town for a few days and hire a PI to watch them and collect the hard evidence you need in court.

Evidence from a VAR may not be admisable in court but could be useful in planning your next step or your defense.

Her underwear after her "workouts" will have residue that can be tested.

This is a definite thing to look at. Gross but effective.

I’m in a similar situation to you...been married 10 years, kids 5 and 7 and just found out my husband is cheating over the weekend. I’m devastated. I want nothing more than to move forward and. I thought we had a wonderful family and life and I was truly happy. The kids make it so much more

Complicated. My 7 year old picks up on everything so senses the tension between us and is mad at me for “being mean to daddy”. It’s so hard - good luck with everything. We will get through this.