SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think WorstClubEver makes a very good point unfortunately. Two people who have not had sex wouldn't call it an Affair.

Bahama you have enough proof - as others have said it's not a criminal trial. I think the related question though is simply whether you personally have a desire to know the full extent of things such as how long it's been going on or other details. The moment you confront everything goes underground and tracks get covered making it much more difficult to undercover details. Maybe that matters to you or maybe it doesn't. That's up to you.

But either way I do think you should see a lawyer and get the lay of the land first assuming you can see someone quickly. Hanging over this is the need to tell the OBS as well and so I wouldn't want to delay, but would to a degree to know your legal rights. I'm a lawyer myself, but not the matrimonial type, and I was surprised at how the law works in many ways - alimony, asset sharing, custody, etc. It's all its own animal and you'll want to know how it works in your state from an expert.

As a side benefit, I think taking a couple or a few days will put you in a better state of mind anyway. I was a complete mess when I found out - literally racing up the stairs at 2am and pulling the covers off the bed to wake my WW and tell her what I just read on her phone. Needless to say I didn't have the benefit of SI before that stupid move - and the result is I was never able to uncover the full truth.

You're really doing great under these terrible circumstances by the way. And I think you've gotten great advice from some of the best here. Hang in there.

Confrontation Day

The cat is out of the bag. I feel a little better psychologically not keeping it in now. Key word little. Tiny.

Today we went to the gym as a family which included our littlest one. We put her in the child watch area and my wife went to go swim.

I attempted to speak to a couple different attorneys but was only able to leave messages.

My wife was scheduled to work this evening instead of the usual day shift so I had a window to do the confrontation. I still wasn't sure if I was ready but she nudged me along by talking about her race plans for the fall with her AP and a joint family vacation this summer with them.

I wanted to make sure the OBS knew so I finally called her. It was rough but I ripped the bandaid off. She didn't have any issues with expressing her anger. I shared my evidence with her and she was devastated. She is the one who first confronted my wife in November with no evidence and it was all laughed off. It was like looking into the mirror talking to her. I asked her to please hold off on confronting her WS until I could speak to mine as I wanted the element of surprise. She didn't attack him in the parking lot but she unfortunately didn't wait more than about :30. We were all apart and she texted me as I was driving home that she'd confronted.

My wife started getting text messages in the car and I suspect that she was getting warned although if so she hid it pretty well. Once we got home, I got our 4 year old set up and away from us and asked my WS to come into our office and sit down.

I was calm, not cold or devoid of emotion, but calm and assertive. I leaned towards her in my chair, looked her dead in the eyes, and just bluntly said "I know you've been having an affair with X and it has to stop now." She didn't say a word. She didn't cry right away as I expected. She didn't get mad. She just stared at me with a blank face although I could see her brain spinning. I repeated myself again with an emphasis that "I KNOW" not that I think, not that I'm guessing, I know. I then asked her if she would like to admit to it, she said no. I pulled out a paper copy of the affair decision tree and handed it to her. I let her know that I have a mountain of evidence and this was only the tip of the iceburg. I let her know I didn't know what the future held for us. That all trust with her has been destroyed. That I couldn't make any promises about anything other that if she didn't go NC with him, she was destroying our family and removing any hope of saving our marriage.

She tried to justify it with the "I haven't been happy" and blame me with "I don't think you love or care about me" bullshit. I've never been anything but loving and supporting to my wife. I've been the voice of reason from time to time with plans and financial matters, but I've always loved her and supported her. I told her I take 50% of the blame for anything wrong with our marriage, but that I take ZERO blame or credit for her having an affair. I let her know there were hundreds of other options to try and fix our marriage if she was unhappy, but that having an affair is not one. I let her know that if she's been unhappy she is a master performer at hiding it 99% of the time.

I also told her I had communicated with an attorney out of fear for the situation, but that I hadn't pursued any legal action yet. This made her a little angry and she accused me of plotting to destroy her. I came back with "you are the one destroying me." I told her I did it because the situation has made me question if I really know her and what she is capable of. I wanted to have that in place to protect myself and our children.

It was pretty short. She cried. I didn't. Not in front of her at least. I told her that I was preparing to keep moving on with the awesome plans I have for my life no matter what she does and that what she does now is up to her. I suggested counseling and she said she wasn't sure yet. I clarified the NC demand and she again just looked like a deer in the headlights. I then told her that I had said all I have to say, got up and went downstairs to play with our daughter.

She was home a couple more hours before she left for work and the whole time she seemed to be in a daze. She came and hugged me one moment and I gave a brief hug back but was the first to let go while she continued to hold me. She said she was worried I didn't love her anymore. I replied that I did still love her which is what makes this so hard and that I was just broken due to her actions and unsure the pieces can be mended.

There were a few more brief sentences spoken between us before she left for work, but I for the most part just kept busy with life and my daughter. I had stuff to do that didn't involve cheating on her. I told her I understood that her little fantasy world is now crumbling and that she didn't have to let me know how she was going to proceed at this moment, but that I'd need to know what her plans are soon so I could better make mine.

After she left the OBS called me. Her confrontation was little less civil from what she said. She slapped him, yelled and ran over his prized triathlon bike with their pickup truck. That almost made me smile. Good for her although probably not in line with most of the suggestions I've seen on SI.

Her confrontation started the same as mine and he immediately denied it. Next she actually bluffed him and he crumbled and spilled the beans. I don't know if I've already mentioned this fact, but her AP has several rental Airbnb places around town. One is right next to where they frequently meet to train. She told him that someone they know had told her they saw him leaving the rental with my WS. He confessed all. They have been having a EA and also PA. He didn't give all the detail but said they had slept together maybe a dozen times and gone on lots of date type stuff behind our backs. There's a lot I still don't know.

That information was hard to hear but I know necessary and I guess it shouldn't be a surprise.

I did finally speak to an attorney this evening. He offered a little useful info. He warned me that I was playing in a very gray area looking on her phone/ipad even though we share passwords, etc. and just to be cautious. Did not recommend secretly recording anything. Said the money movement was probably ok, but that if she noticed she could do the same to keep it from me. I asked about the "at fault/no fault" potential and he said it really didn't matter much in the TN courts. It doesn't play into custody arrangements unless the children are in trouble and that it was only a secondary consideration when it came to alimony.

I'm still in a very dark place but at least the meds allowed me to sleep last night.

Now what? I focused on this confrontation so much, I'm back to square one now that it's done.

[This message edited by Bahama at 8:22 AM, March 21st (Thursday)]

Good job and this illustrates why it is a must to

expose the affair to the OMW.

Do not wait and let her make the decision whether to keep you or not. It should be a very brief him or me.

Do not offer R immediately even if that is what you seek. Take your time and think this over. Do not jump into MC ( big chance it'll just become a rugsweep ).

You did well.

NC must be total and permanent for R to work. There is no leeway on this.

I would move her stuff out of the bedroom while she's at work. This sets the tone of him or me but you can't have both. However, no R until you decide whether to give her that gift or not.

Hugging her right now says I'll do anything to keep you. Not a good message to send to her. If you give leverage she will take it and more.

For the most part you set a good tone. Stay with it. If not you'll give her control and you'll put yourself in limbo. She only has control over you if you allow it.

How has your sexual intimacy been throughout the affair?

Do monitor your phone data. If they continue to communicate that will be a very bad sign.

Stay in contact with the other spouse. Right now she's your biggest ally. But keep boundaries on it !!!!

[This message edited by Marz at 6:17 PM, February 25th (Monday)]

I'm on the fence about letting others know about her affair and our situation. I understand that the more an affair is exposed that the more pressure is placed on my WS to end it. However, it just doesn't feel right yet to tell her family, my family, etc. yet. I'm having a hard time going "full mean" to her despite what she's done to me.

I should probably go ahead and rip off that bandaid too as I can't imagine a situation where they don't realize something is wrong.

I had to tell our 8-year old daughter that one of our pet fish died today. She didn't cry or anything but did ask me if that was why mommy was crying when she was getting into her car to go to work. Damn. I predict I'll need to have a talk with her soon too. She's perceptive enough to at least need to be told mommy and daddy are working through a problem that's going to make us sad sometimes.

This all fucking sucks.

Before any R talk you need the truth, a full timeline and an NC letter as well.

I suspect she is waiting to see if her other man commits to her at this time. If he does don't be surprised if she jumps ship.

You are strong. Stay there. Refuse to live like this. Any backing up from your very reasonable demands will put you in worse shape.

I would see an attorney immediately. You don't know which way this is going to turn. Knowledge is power get all you can.

Exposure is up to you. You did the best thing informing her other man.

Helping hide their affair usually puts you in limbo and enables them further.

Affairs only thrive in secrecy and the dark. Her fantasy is not so fun anymore and her other man is facing consequences. All good things.

Nice job

Oh and rich boys like to play. He could be banging escorts and who knows where all he's been. Unfortunately that's where your wife has put you. I seriously doubt this is his first rodeo.

Mandatory STD testing. I'd get mine lined up immediately and stop having sex with your wayward at least until this clears up a bit.

[This message edited by Marz at 6:29 PM, February 25th (Monday)]

You did great !!!, don't hug her anymore for now, don't believe a word she says and watch her actions, she's in self preservation mode now, keep exposing now to family and close friends (OBS will most likely inform mutual friends but do it anyway), don't wait on "her plans", tell her YOUR PLAN, and that it starts with she needs to send an NC FOREVER letter to OM TONIGHT in front of you (no sweet goodbyes), tell her your plans is to file for D if she contacts him again (you have to mean it), D takes a long time and she will have until it's final to try to convince you to stop it, at this point the M is dead and she killed it, you would need a new M if she at some point is remorseful, she just regrets getting caught and doesn't want to stop seeing her boyfriend (deer in the headlights face).

Do not offer any guarantees that you will R, just tell her that in order for her to have a chance, she needs to do the necessary work to restore the M she destroyed, she should start by calling both set of parents and apologizing for her huge betrayal, next she needs to get tested for STDs (you should too), find out who else knew about the A or enabled it, they need to go too (not friends of the M).

Now you're in the driver's seat, do not let her take control of the situation, if she wants a chance to R, you set the rules, ask ker for a complete timeline of the A. Do not go to MC, she needs intense IC sessions for a long time to find out her "whys".

Go ahead and rip the bandaid, you need the support of your loved ones, don't let her rewrite M history, the more decisive action you take the better chance you have at ending the A for good and the better chance you have at a successful R.

I had to tell our 8-year old daughter that one of our pet fish died today. She didn't cry or anything but did ask me if that was why mommy was crying when she was getting into her car to go to work. Damn. I predict I'll need to have a talk with her soon too. She's perceptive enough to at least need to be told mommy and daddy are working through a problem that's going to make us sad sometimes.

Don't lie to your children, tell them in a sanitized way "mommy did something wrong to us, she decided to have a secret boyfriend and yes you know him, it's OM", you may follow that with "that's why we're not going to be around them any longer, she still loves you and no matter what happens we will always love you". Your children will learn a life lesson from this, that integrity and honesty have a huge value, also yes your WW needs to feel the shame and embarrassment of her decision, she was planning to destroy you and embarrassing you by considering to leave you for AP, remember the more she hates the A, the more she will hate AP.

Like another poster said, she's now waiting to see if OM will leave OBS for her (unlikely), you have just destroyed the A tree and threw a wrench at their plans. Most of the time the rich OM will throw the WW under the bus to save his own M. Find your anger, your in the fight of your life, tell your family, you're going to need all the help you can get.

As I said before you don't know at this time which way this is going to go.

No begging, pleading or crying. That will lower your status and make her other man look even better.

Do not let her have time to decide. If she try's that I'd do FULL EXPOSURE without warning immediately.

Don't be afraid of pushing her away. If she try's for more time she's already gone and is only trying to gain time for her boyfriend to make his move. If you put yourself in the position of letting her and her AP decide your fate you lose.

Stay strong it is your only way out

I agree with ripping off the bandaid. Tell your families at a minimum. It serves as both con9for her actions and you both can gain some much need support from your families. You need people you can vent to in real life. Her family can deal with her. By you telling them, you prevent her from telling lies about her affair. They can choose how to deal with her. You family should be your biggest allies in helping you heal.

Nownits up to your WW to see if she is a candidate for reconciliation or not. Please continue to contact other lawyers to learn all you can on how to proceed legally. If WW is a candidate for R through her actions, you need to get a Post-nup put in place for the future if for any reason you decide to pull the plug on R and turn to D.

I agree with move her stuff out of the marital bedroom. She broke her vows, broke the family, she lost the privilege to sleep in the martial bed.

This cheating has been done in almost an open manner after the BSs' question them about it and the cheaters carrying on all their mutual activities without any regard. You (and OBS) should prepare for the case that this can be an exit affair. Take necessary steps to safeguard your interests regardless of whether you want to R or not

[This message edited by goalong at 7:00 PM, February 25th (Monday)]

I agree with giving your daughter an age-appropriate explanation. Just tell her that mommy broke a promise she made to daddy and that you're not sure what's going to happen.

Also, find your anger. Don't be nice to her and don't go easy on her. Inform her family of what she's done. It'll pile on more pressure to end the A and maintain NC and add more voices in her ear telling her how fucked up what she's done is. Tell your family so you have people in your life you can talk to. Don't make yourself suffer in order to preserve her dignity. She has none.

[This message edited by firenze at 6:59 PM, February 25th (Monday)]

Brother-

You did good.

One thing- NEVER offer R. R must be earned.

I know it's a hard reality, but you have to treat the M as if the M is over and you are moving on. If she wants R, she must realize it herself and earn it. You can't save her or the M. She has to realize it and do it herself.

She is in the fog.

How do you snap someone out of the fog?

Divorce papers and being served at work.

Look at the stories where a BS tried the "lets go to counseling" strategy...and what happened? The A continued. The fog continued.

Look at the times where the BS dropped D papers on them and did the 180... Fog evaporated.

D papers. Keep your momentum. Focus on the 180. Accept no BS fake apologies.

Be aware- She is going to try and love/sex bomb you...to make you FEEL like she cares...

It's BS. Block it 100% and shut that bullcrap down. Her weapon now is your love for her. She will use it. Take it away and deny her tools that she will use to manipulate you.

Be the 180, D papers, drive towards D and don't tell her your plans. If she wakes up, you can stop the D. If she doesn't....you are on the right track.

Her denial, her uncertainty what she wants is typical for a cheater. I predict the other man will throw her under the bus. She's uncertain what she wants because she's still in the affair.

After she speaks with the OM, be prepared for more drama when she returns from work. By then she'll know that she's been dumped.

None of that makes her safe or ready for R.

You may feel sorry for her pain and confusion (but dont). She's feeling sorry over her loss not for hurting you or destroying your marriage.

Stay in control. Don't ask her what she wants to do. Inform her that you're giving yourself 90 days to decide what you want to do (R or D). When she asks do you still love me: say I don't know. Or can we save our marriage: say I don't know.

Have her read: How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful by MacDonald. It sells used for $5 on Amazon.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 7:31 PM, February 25th (Monday)]

I'm having a hard time going "full mean" to her despite what she's done to me.

It's normal for you to feel sorry for her but it's a mistake to act on it.

Exposing her is not mean. And the sooner the more effective.

It's a consequence of her deceit, disrespect and adultery. She is not who she pretended to be. She only regrets getting caught ... not for the damage to you. She'd be with him this weekend if you didn't confront.

Tough love. In order for her to ever fix herself and be a safe partner, she needs to hit bottom with no where to hide - and face who she has become. I know you are tempted to shield/protect her - but interfering with the process is counter productive.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 7:44 PM, February 25th (Monday)]

Dear Bahama,

I’m very sorry you are going through the pain and agony of an affair. It is my opinion; you should expose your WW to everyone with no exception. I do believe the exposing the affair will help to bring her back to reality.

NC is the minimum requirement if you are so desperate to save this marriage without your self-respect or sanity intact. What you must ask from her is beyond NC.

- A timeline

- all her passwords and no secrecy

- IC. Please don't offer MC. She has to ask you instead.

- Overall, she has to step up her game to keep you if she must prove that she wants to be in this relationship.

And do not tell her that you love her. Tell her that you love what you've built with her and what you had planned as a future with her. If she thinks you can love her as the person she is currently, then you are going to have a tough time being taken seriously. Go 180 and see how the fog vanishes. Please don't do the "pick-me dance" a lot of desperate BS do and then after a year still end up divorcing after months and months of pain and humiliation.

But overall, you've handled it very well. A lot more stoic than most BS. Wishing you luck and hoping that you can keep your family intact without losing your self-esteem and sanity.

[This message edited by hadji at 8:08 PM, February 25th (Monday)]

Will she commit to NC??

If so,how will you confirm it with out the VAR?

You still need to verify so its not so much about gathering evidence as it is about validating what she does and what she plans to do.