SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

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-No “pick me” dance

I know you’re concerned about the kids costody, but remember you have leverage. She’s cheating, she’ll try to save face. You don’t have to move out.

As stated above, I’m concerned that you’re already speaking of reconciliation. Let’s not forget, her “I love you” are meaningless. Not sure how you can trust her again.

I would like to stress that wandering partners/spouses like to rewrite the history of their relationships for others. It is a defense mechanism that assists in justifying their cheating.

However, once exposed, I guarantee she’ll say she didn’t mean it.

Get a VAR that doesn’t make noises or has a light. Velcro it under her car seat. Sony with build in USB port is a solid one.

Be careful with the VAR - if you live in a two-party state (meaning both people recorded have to consent to being recorded), you can get yourself into legal hot water by revealing you've recorded her.

On the other hand, I know men who have used that two party consent to warn the spouse that "I'm recording everything said from here on out to prevent my words from being misrepresented." False accusation of domestic violence is highly probable after confrontation in order to leverage divorce financials and custody in their favor.

Is your wife a doctor? There's something about the financial dynamics & moving for her job that is familiar to me.

Are you a stay at home dad? If so, when you speak with an attorney (asap for peace of mind) you may find that you're entitled to spousal support as well as custody of your kids.

The Decision Tree is a tool to keep the fantasy going.

Characterizing and discussing their affair in terms of a Decision Tree minimizes the selfish nature of the affair in your wife's mind. It also helps to numb herself to the: guilt, shame, and her apathy toward you and your kids.

Since you're not sleeping and you're an emotional wreck (entirely understandable), I suggest you see an emergency clinic today. Explain to the doctor what you've told us so he can treat you for PTSD and test you for STDs.

He can provide meds for sleeping and to control the anxiety. It's not only important for health reasons but to regain/maintain your composure while you gather more evidence (and think and plan more clearly).

Thank you to all who are steering me back to the proper way of thinking about this. I'm getting my brain wrapped around the situation and straight a little more each post I read.

After loving and trusting someone for 15-years, I'm just not cold enough to flip the switch off in an instant. I highly disapprove, shit, lets change that to I'M ANGRY about what she has and is still doing and if she continues I won't be a part of it and am prepared to end the relationship. Who would want to be a part of a relationship where you aren't wanted or loved? I do understand that reconciliation is a down the road thing if ever.

Evidence Question

I'm worried I don't have enough. I think I have enough to prove to her that she's guilty of disloyalty, betrayal, and having "an affair". But that term seems to be vague at times. I have no concrete evidence that she has had any physical interaction with the AP. This could be an emotional affair for sure based on what I have, but do I need more?

The most damning photo I have is the one I found in an email that has the "decision tree" regarding how the A could go. But there are no names on it or discernible faces, etc. I know it's her AP based on his gray Altra running shoes and custom steel desk on the edge of the photo. I'm not sure it would hold up in court though. I guess the fact that it was found in her email might be the key. I need to make sure I have evidence of that trail.

The rest of my evidence is mainly hurtful secretive emails where she is bashing me and confiding in her AP.

I suspect there may have been some physical activity, but have no proof.

Do I need more?

Yes, my wife is a xxxxxxx which is what has allowed us to always have a parent at home with our girls and never needed childcare.

I'm going to see if I can set up an initial consultation with a lawyer ASAP. It's Sunday so it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

Is it critical that I meet with a lawyer prior to confronting her?

I think you are correct about needing some meds. This was sleepless night number 2 and I'm feeling and looking rough. This morning my WS asked where I was in the middle of the night. I told her I couldn't sleep and was in the office. I could see in her face that she's worried about me. Perhaps some meds can even my keel until I am ready to confront her. The sooner the better for the confrontation. I can't keep this bottled up much longer. I just want to do what others have suggested and make sure I'm the one in control of the interaction and loaded with leverage to make this A stop.

[This message edited by Bahama at 9:11 PM, February 27th (Wednesday)]

Plan this out carefully. Do not back off. In order to try and save your marriage the AP must be cut out completely and forever. If not it will continue.

It's him or you. If you can't get this done you'll extend your stay in limbo for longer than you need to. While you can't make your wife do anything you can and must control yourself. Refuse to live in infidelity.

Never make any ultimatum that you won't back up. That will just give her control and put you in a worse position.

Exposure to his wife is key. He will have a lot lo lose if they won't stop. His wife could be your best ally plus it puts two sets of eyes on this.

You’re doing good so far. Plenty of spouses confront with less.

There’s 2 older threads that are pretty much a blueprint on how you deal with this situation. One is a gentleman who was/is in the military (LtCapt maybe????). His story, especially is one you need to read.

I'm worried I don't have enough. I think I have enough to prove to her that she's guilty of disloyalty, betrayal, and having "an affair". But that term seems to be vague at times. I have no concrete evidence that she has had any physical interaction with the AP. This could be an emotional affair for sure based on what I have, but do I need more?

The most damning photo I have is the one I found in an email that has the "decision tree" regarding how the A could go.

The four most powerful words you will have in your confrontation with your WS will be “I don’t believe you” and you have pounds of evidence for taking that position. To everything she says, just say, “I don’t believe you without proof.”

To extend it out, your position should be that since she is now a proven liar and untrustworthy, you aren’t going to believe the words coming out of her mouth, and in order to protect you and your children, are going to assume the worst unless she can prove otherwise. That she is taking, or has taken, the most damaging path on that decision tree.

This is the key point. The burden of proof is now on her. She has to give you access to all of everything right then (and correct the lies she’s told, assuming you wouldn’t have access), agree to take a polygraph, and never, ever, ever communicate with the OM again.

Trust is the foundation of marriage, she has violated it, you should act to protect yourself by assuming the worst until you know the actual truth. She’ll understand this, she’s a doctor. Draw her up a decision tree of your own if she is confused.

This puts you in control and her having to respond. It is where you must be.

Sending strength!

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 9:05 AM, February 24th (Sunday)]

For future discussion you may want to obtain a copy of: Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass

After she reads that book (even the first 10 pages) she would be unable to accuse you of being controlling or unreasonable. Nor would she be able to justify her relationship with the OM.

It's a solid research based guide to protecting a marriage that everyone should read.

The book will give you the 'terms' and research you need to express your concerns too.

P.S., you are doing great. Your instincts are spot-on and you are taking control.

Have you looked at your cell phone provider's monthly records to identify the frequency, time and duration of calls? That's evidence of an EA not necessarily a PA.

Also I think if her 'location' is turned then you might be able to record/track her training sessions and lunch locations. Perhaps put Find my Friends on her cell phone.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 11:28 AM, February 24th (Sunday)]

For a VAR, get the Sony ICD-PX470, it's about $50.

Make sure that you get a lot of extra triple A batteries and at least 1 extra 32GB Micro SD storage card for each VAR you purchase.

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You can probably recover a lot of deleted texts and information from her phone. Get the software "Fonelab" - don't get "Dr. Fone", it sucks - and run it on her phone to recover deleted texts, call logs, and photos and videos, plus cheater app messages.

You can get Fonelab for iPhone or Android phones.

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If she is an iPhone person and you have an old phone of hers or other Apple devices, they might be signed into her Apple ID. Then you can see her text messages, especially iMessages.

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If you have old phones lying around, you can use them as in plain sight recording devices, there are VAR apps for both iPhone and Android. Be careful not to download apps to a phone on her Apple account.

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If you can put keylogger software on her computer - these programs monitor keystrokes and internet activity, and even take screenshots.

I don't have a keylogger recommendation, maybe someone else does?

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Back to phones, if you have another Apple device on her account, you can monitor her location via "Find My Phone".

If you have her iCloud password you can log in to her account and see what has been backed up.

Be careful, Apple sends alert emails when iCloud is logged into from a new device, and puts alerts in phones when a new device is added for texts and phone calls.

Be prepared to intercept these messages and alerts.

Good luck!

You are doing great!

When it comes to the confrontation, honestly, they are so skewed in their thinking that no amount of evidence is truly “enough”.

I literally caught my husband and his mistress naked in our bed and he still tried to deny that anything was going on, and actually tried to shout me down and say that I was crazy.

Assertiveness is key for you!

Do not ever pose any of your accusations as questions.

For example, say, “I know you have been making calls to AP and deleting them from your call log.” You don’t have pictures of her phone from every time you saw that the call logs from her phone and the phone records weren’t matching up, but that doesn’t matter! You saw what you saw, and you know what you know.

When she says “You’re crazy, you don’t know what you’re talking about,” you say “I saw it with my own eyes, and there is nothing you can say to convince me that the truth is not the truth. You have two choices, admit to it, or deny it. But remember, I am not guessing or speculating. I know these things to be true.”

“I know” statements are your ally here. No hemming or hawing, no matter how much she tries to spin it.

If you stay calm, it is easier. My STBXH went off the rails when I confronted. But when he kept trying to say I was crazy and that it wasn’t what it looked like, I took deep breaths and responded very calmly.

All that said, if you can put a GPS tracker on her car I would. If you’re worried about her bringing it up legally, put one on your own car too and say you had done it for safety purposes to keep track of where everyone is. If you can confirm that she is going to a hotel when they are supposed to be “training” that will be the nail in the coffin for you.

Or even if they are going to his house, and the OBS can confirm that those are times when she was not there, or when her own spouse was saying he was somewhere else, she can corroborate for you.

And you don’t ever even need to reveal HOW you know that she wasn’t where she said she was. Usually if you just keep repeating I know statements, and you don’t give in, even a little bit, they will eventually have to concede. It’s amazing the power you have when you look them in the eye and just keep repeating “I know...” no matter what they say.

They get scared, because they don’t know how you know, so they don’t know how to deflect or spin it. The least amount of information you give them the better. The more details they have, even if they are small, the more they have to grasp at and try to spin it that you are the crazy one.

Before you confront, really consider how you will 180. You can’t technically kick her out of the house. But you CAN move all of her things out of your bedroom and into bags/boxes while she’s at work, then put them in the garage before you confront. If she chooses to leave the house after that, then you have not kicked her out, she chose to leave. If she won’t leave, you can always say that you will not tolerate her being in the room with you, and she can stay in the spare bedroom.

Also, don’t ever forget that she KNOWS this is wrong, and she chose to do it anyway. The fact that they created a secret email address to communicate with one another really says it all. If everything was above board there would be no reason to hide it.

Get yourself some sleep before you make any major decisions. You have the benefit of knowing quite a lot, and you haven’t blown any of it up yet so you have the element of surprise in your favor. Plan, plan, plan.

Remember that the second you confront, she will go on a deleting rampage to try to cover everything up, so take pictures of everything. If you can, before you confront, get her phone back one last time and take screenshots of every little thing that seems off. Then text them to yourself and delete those texts from the chain in her phone.

And yes, all property is marital property, so transferring out half of the $ into your own account should not be a problem at all. But always consult a lawyer just to be sure of your rights.

I love my WS and don't want to lose her. I'm hopeful that we can make it through this.

This might come off as harsh and I'm sorry for that. But this approach isn't going to work.

You love her and don't want to lose her. She doesn't feel the same for you. Her actions make that abundantly clear. She was angry and upset over your treatment of the AP and your suspicions, while she was getting fucked silly by him.

She literally is with you only because of the benefits you provide her. Hell, they have a flowchart, that's incredibly cold of them.

The woman you knew and loved, or thought you knew is dead. She either never existed, to begin with, or has died at some point during your marriage. This will take time to sink in and for you to process but please understand that your wife is NOT your friend, she is NOT on your side, she is for all intents and purposes an enemy as of now and will act accordingly. Do not expect her to be reasonable, for you to be able to work this out because you love her, for her to take your side and not throw you under the bus if it benefits the AP.

The more I think about it, the more I think you should confront with your own flowchart. There should be about 20 paths to divorce and exactly 1 to R, with lots of branches off of it to D. Don’t even tell her you’ve seen hers.

Bahama,

When you ask if you have enough, remember that this isn't a criminal trial. Unless your lawyer tells you that proof of physical adultery can significantly affect the divorce settlement in your state, then it's up to you to decide how much is enough.

To me, the decision tree is pretty bad. It's a premeditated plan to wreck your life, and in many ways, worse than a pure physical affair. It would certainly be enough proof for me to file for D.

When confronting, you don't need to let on everything you know. Common tactic is to tell her you know a lot, and let slip one example (decision tree). Then tell her if she doesn't come clean with a written timeline, or if it doesn't match up to everything you already know, then the marriage is over. Of course you can't bluff unless you mean it. But if she doesn't want to come clean, then I don't see the point of staying together.

You can't control her so what ever leverage you want to have in order to stop the A won't mean much.

Chicks dig confident men so no crying or begging.

You have enough proof to end this marriage.

I get it...you love her....but she doesn't have to see it during the confrontation.

She needs to see you are done with her. She must believe this is a deal breaker and if you want her to think twice or second guess the AP you have to JUST LET HER GO!!!!!

If you are lucky she will start chasing what she can't have and that's you. If she really wants to stay married to you she will have to do the heavy lifting.

Fake until you make it. My guess is she thinks you aren't going any were. Prove her wrong.

When I confronted I had the mind set...the confidence to just let my old lady go.

So remember never cry in front of her and if you can't hold it in during the confrontation, then go cry in the garage like me.

SI, I believe the AP is far away.

Bahama, see the doctor and lawyer first. Tell you WW that you’re not feeling well and sleep separately. You’re doing really really well, you’re absorbing advice a lot better than most.

You have to stay healthy for your children. Take care of yourself, two little girls depend on you.

Remember to stay calm and in control. And you have a team of 10 to a 100 behind you

How did you guys celebrate V-day?