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I never thought I would be back here, but here I am. My BH discovered my second affair last week, and he is bleeding out (figuratively, but it might as well be real). My first affair was a long, drawn out affair with emotions involved and after my BH discovered it, he committed to staying immediately even though all I did was whine about the OM. I was so "foggy"...it took nearly a year for me to see the truth. Now, here I am again. This affair was quick, and I don't give a &*^% about the OM. I only care about my BH. I was sorry immediately, and I can see the searing pain my BH is in. He is lost, sad, angry, and wanting to leave. He has NO reason to trust anything I say, and he thinks I am still hiding things from him (I'm not). He did attend therapy with me twice in the past week, so that I guess that is a good thing, and he has committed to staying in our home for the next three weeks. He told me I have to show him I've changed, and that I only have a "puncher's chance" to show him I've changed. I DO NOT want to lose him. I am having terrible thoughts all the time, and I am trying to keep myself above water while doing anything I can think of to help him. I have started doing the following:

Any and all housework (BH was doing FAR too much around the house)

Asking what he needs many many times a day

Listening to his anger, pain, fear, crying, etc.

Starting my own therapy with a therapist who will help me develop safe and effective plans to manage stress.

Planning all his favorite meals/leaving him notes/trying to think about special things he might like.

Making an appointment with a psychologist.

Sending constant updates and photos to where I am and what I'm doing.

Committing to never quitting and to fixing Us, Him, and Myself.

My BH is understandably a wreck, and does not understand how I could do this to him. I have maintained that I was wrong, that no amount of problems in our marriage make up for this, and that those problems should be worked on after this initial crisis period. My BH has one foot out the door and says he is only giving me this tiny tiny chance because of our three small children. He believes I only want him to stay because I don't want to hurt the children, but nothing could be farther from the truth. I LOVE him and, even though this is a shitty version of love, I didn't have the affair to hurt or get back at him. I had it because I do not have healthy coping mechanisms for stress/anger/other emotions. My BH says he will never give me the chance to hurt him again, and of course he doesn't believe that I would never. I am finally with a good therapist who is giving me homework to do, and I will do ANYTHING to show my BH that I can change and that I can be committed to us and to him forever. Clearly, my words mean nothing, but I am hoping my actions do.

My BH is here in the house for the time being, but I feel like he has already written me off (will not wear his rings, will not let me touch him, says he hates me, says I disgust him) and keeps asking me to address issues in our marriage, though I keep telling him this is not the time (damned if I do/damned if I don't kind of situation...says if I don't discuss the issues, I'm hiding things, but if I do, I'm shifting blame). The only person to blame here is myself, and I can't lose him.

I am asking for ANY advice on further steps I can take to help him in his pain and steps I can take to change myself and show him I am changing. I am near the point of losing it completely, and I don't want to hurt anyone anymore. I will die without my BH (and yes, I should have thought about that before), and I am not going to quit, but I need some help. Thank you.

IslandA,

How are you explaining your behavior to your H?

Why should he trust you?

Wonder if he'd be willing to share his story over in the JFO section.

I am asking for ANY advice on further steps I can take to help him in his pain and steps I can take to change myself and show him I am changing

Well, for one, you aren't. He caught you in a second affair a week ago. You haven't changed anything yet. You just don't want to lose the life that you have with him, and if you want to commit to anything resembling real growth, you had better wrap your brain around that real fast.

It seems like you are asking for some magic words to convince him to give you another (third) chance. Those words don't exist.

If I was advising him, and if he was committed to working it out with you, I would tell him to look at your actions. Your challenge is that even after hurting him and seeing the results with your first affair, you had another one. You are unbelievably dismissive in your reference to this affair...

This affair was quick, and I don't give a &*^% about the OM

You sure cared enough to destroy your husband again. How quick is the affair that your BH could have that it isn't a big deal? Not to mention if you tell your husband that you don't care about the OM, he's going to wonder why you put him through this pain for someone you didn't care about.

Your post has most of the right words and steps that are needed, and you have clearly read up on what to do. What's different from the last time? How do you convince your husband that it's different?

[This message edited by xhz700 at 9:48 AM, January 24th (Wednesday)]

Once was bad, twice is SUICIDAL. I'm sorry, but why do you think he will come back to you? Suddenly you are doing housework? Listening? Going to IC? Nope, nope nope!!!! You emasculated this man many many times. Please, set the poor bastard free so he can find a GOOD WOMAN WHO WILL NOT FUCK AROUND ON HIM!

I just do not understand. You knew what your first affair did to him and now you think he is going to want you even remotely after this? Come on, you have to know that you have ended your marriage and now you are hovering over it's corpse like a vulture. It is done. Be nice to your husband, let him go.

I am asking for advice on how to help my BH and how to change. He is offering me a tiny chance, and I am committed to working on it for him, for our children, and for our future. If he is offering me the chance, no matter how small, I am going to work on it. I am wrong. I am terrible. I know this. I will not stop trying to fix this if he is offering me even the tiniest chance.

What is different this time? I know I was wrong immediately. I am not trying to blame outstanding issues. I am seeking help to stop. And even if my marriage dissolves, I want to be "right" for myself and for everyone in my life.

I am heartbroken at what I've done to my BH. I am looking for support and help. Direct questions, hard questions are helpful...attacks on me are not. I am not going to give up and let my BH go when he is offering me this chance. I won't give up.

If I discovered my husband had cheated again, he would be served with divorce papers faster than he could blink. Seriously, I have them ready. So the fact that your husband is still there is already a HUGE gift.

Having said that, this would be devastating. Soul-crushing. So, before you jump into reconcilation, I think you need to really dig deep and find out if you really really want to be in this marriage. And be honest with yourself. Is being with you the best thing for him? The truth is, if you have any doubts that this isn't what's best for you AND him, you need to do the right and selfless thing and let him go.

So my advice is to be kind and remorseful to your husband, but give him space for now. Figure yourself out in IC. Let him figure himself out in IC. Co-parent as best as you can.

The affair was quick?

What's the difference between a short affair and a long-term affair, an affair is an affair.

When was your first affair? Just looking you signed on in 2014, your husband was probably just beginning to feel some sense of normalcy, and you dropped a nuclear bomb on him again.

Personally, I don't think there is anything you can do to help your husband. You have thrown him under the bus twice, I'm not sure if you are the right person to help him out of a second devastation. I think you might have put the final nail in the coffin.

All the things you listed are things you should have been doing all along. You want to manage stress, IslandA, you have absolute NO IDEA the stress your husband is under right now. I don't think there is anything you can say or do for him. All he knows is that he gave you the gift of reconciliation, and you threw it all away by having a second affair. Words will not console him, I don't think your actions will either. He's crushed.

Is he in counseling?

You said BH "discovered" your affair last week. So you did not confess to him, he found out on his own.

When was the last contact you had with the OM?

My husband told me I got ONE chance, that's it. I believe him.

I don't think there is anything you can say or do to fix it. It's not up to you it's up to him. You can't change his mind about you no matter what you do, this is something I have come to learn over the past 10 months.

Right now you are focusing on what YOU can do to fix HIM and make him want you to stay. You can't. Fix yourself first.

Since there is no stop sign I will respond. But before I do I would recommend a stop sign so that only wayward spouses can respond. That being said...

Not much you can do right now but be consistent. You know the work that needs to be done. Do that. The rest is out of your hands. Answer all, and I mean all, of your BS questions. Writer everything down. If AP2 is married tell him the APs wife's name so he can inform her that her husband cheated. If he is coworker, resign and find a new job. Be his wife as much as he will allow you to be. You can only work on you. The power to save the marriage is in his hands.

In all honesty, I would be done with the marriage. It being someone you don't care about, for me, makes it worse. If you don't care about the man, why did you do it then? Why should he give you another chance? Sadly, you can't fix this without a decision by your husband on if he wants to reconcile. Remember, you took that gift or reconciliation and threw it in the trash. Why should he take it out the trash where you tossed it?

Edited: How long was the affair? When you say short how long was that?

[This message edited by WilliamM at 11:01 AM, January 24th (Wednesday)]

The affair was quick and you don't give a shit about the OM. That statement alone tells me you have no clue what you've done to him. You're in survival mode, nothing more.

Is that really supposed to help him? I mean, do you think that makes it better in his eyes? I mean, do you think he can rest easier bc now he can say, "Yeah,my wife cheated on me again, but it's all good bc she didn't even like the guy", because it doesn't. It's worse. Where before you jeopardized your M with someone you cared about, this time you did it for someone you don't care about. You simply wanted sex with someone else, ANYONE else, other than your H. He feels lower than dirt on the bottom of your shoes right now.

I've been thru what he's going thru, and I really don't think there's anything you can do to fix things this time. But the fact that he's staying for now may be a good sign for you. Or it may mean that he's codependent, which I guess is still good for you.

I guess the only advice I can give is actions, actions, actions, and pray that you haven't killed all of his feelings for you.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 11:08 AM, January 24th (Wednesday)]

You knew you were wrong immediately? Yet you had to cross boundary after boundary, before it became physical. Did you know it was wrong as you were crossing each boundary? Or was it only after you had sex with the OM the first time? Or was it the second time? Or were you only sorry after you saw the pain you caused your husband again?

You say you never thought you would be here again. Yet, when you crossed that very first boundary with OM2, you had to know what was going to happen.

It sounds like you were ok having another affair, but thought you wouldn't get caught. But you did..and now you're sorry.

Doing housework had zero to do with working to become a safe partner.

You can not say you've changed. It's been a week. You were caught,you didn't confess. That makes a difference. Real change takes time.

Why would you allow yourself to cross that first boundary, knowing how you felt after the first affair?

IslandA- Have you ever worked with any one in the past few years related to your assault in college ? It is clear to me that you really, really need to working with a specialist in this area. That has to occur before you are going to be able to even have a snowballs chance. Do you think your acting out this time was another attempt to right the wrongs of the past in the least healthy and damaging way possible? I am in no way, 100% not, excusing your actions. You say you own it, but what can you do to show that ? The hard won wisdom of my R has taught me that you can't skip over steps and jump right to healing the M. You can't rebuild a house with a broken foundation. Your only chance is to heal from your past and then focus on him. You can't help him while you are drowning yourself.

You never healed yourself or the hurts from your past. You need to immediately need to start addressing that. All you've been doing is sharing your trauma with your H through another way.

To be 100% honest with you. Your H was able to make the leap the first time with some faith and trust. A third chance would cause him to hate himself even more than he already does. That is the part most WS don't see or even understand is how much self loathing comes with that grace. It comes at the expense of our pride, dignity and our sense of justice. We lose who we are for a time when we don't exercise our right to D a cheating spouse.

The first time you had a really hard time with his anger. What have to learned since then? If he still cares at all it will likely get worse. If he doesn't rage I would start to worry. It would mean he is detaching.

He is going to need an ironclad show of faith right now that you hand to him on a silver platter. One example I can think of is a post nup. I've also heard of couples getting a D on paper with favorable terms so if it happens again they simply move out. Even then I think you understand he is well within his right to walk away.

The point that you got it immediately doesn't win you any points with him. It just shows how little you've learned and grown. How the past few years were a complete waste. I'd doubt he has healed from the first A. This time I'd fully expect him to become indifferent to you. He will have to do that to stop hurting as much. He will do anything to make the hurt lessen.

What have you done in the past few years to fix the brokeness in you ? Clearly the IC and MC you had were not very helpful. I'd start by firing them if they are the same ones.

What OM#2 similar to OM#1 ? Some details might be helpful in understanding what advice to give to you or ways you might be able to get through to your H.

I suggest you use the stop sign for awhile. Nothing you can do right now except working on yourself will give you a greater chance.

He needs space and probably IC just to be able to get to point where he will be able to function normally. He is beyond destroyed and probably already mourning the loss of his M.

You and he already did everything you could to heal the M. None of that seemed to work. Your H probably thinks that now too. The only reason he is even considering giving you a slight chance is because of his kids.

Your words sound a lot like the first time you posted here. I remember those posts. Your are going to have to do 100% of the work here. Your actions need to match your words verbatim. Even less room for error.

While your intentions seem, "nice" all they are going to do is remind him of why you are doing them.

Start today fixing yourself and begin to let the pain from past be brought out into the open with a certified counselor who specializes in your past trauma.

It is scary. I get it. I've walked over those burning coals myself. It hurts worse while working through it for a time, but it is so, so worth it to free yourself from that prison.

1. Write down anything you have withheld about your adultery throughout your M and while the two of you were exclusive. And do it using a low threshold for what fits "adultery". Include any emotional affairs. You're going to need that for your therapist.

2. Give it to him.

3. Ghost anyone who is not a friend of your M.

4. Tell anyone you to whom you denigrated your H that it was wrong to vilify him to them.

5. Notify all of those betrayed by your A partners.

6. Let go of any outcome.

I'll be as gentle as I can be. My goal is not to attack you. You say you want hard questions, so...

What is different this time? I know I was wrong immediately. I am not trying to blame outstanding issues. I am seeking help to stop. And even if my marriage dissolves, I want to be "right" for myself and for everyone in my life.

You say that you came to this understanding after your first affair, but it took you a long time, correct? If that's the case, why did you have a second affair?

I would argue that if you had a second affair, you never really made any progress after your first affair at all. What is different now? Figuring out you fucked up sooner upon getting caught than last time is NOT a valid answer to this question.

Imagine you robbed a bank, and had all of the entitled reasons for doing so. You had a bad upbringing, you never got a fair chance in life, etc... You got caught robbing the bank, and while in prison you did work to figure out why your entitlement allowed you to go through with it. You came to understand that it was you that was at fault, not the world, and took accountability.

You then get out of prison and rob another bank. Once you are caught, you immediately drop the money and swear that you know exactly what you did wrong this time.

Do you feel you deserve credit this time?

I would argue that you don't have a good grasp on what you did that was wrong in the first or second affair right now, and that you aren't in a good place to say that you are a safe partner yet.

You need to do IC for yourself and stop worrying about whether your marriage survives this.

Not trying to bash you. What stand out to me is you personally had a front row seat to your BH's pain the last time, but did it again, only this time was quick because you didn't have feelings. I suspect it was quick because you got caught. I suspect your BH ignored his gut once about you and your behavior and now when it speaks now, he listens and quickly.

How could you do this twice? What did YOU tell yourself to make this okay?

If you cheat once, you are lucky to get another chance, serial cheaters rarely get another chance if they cheat once. You have major major work to do on yourself, and while it's great you are asking questions, legitimately it is a good thing, but you need to start looking in the mirror at who you believe you are.

So, before you jump into reconcilation, I think you need to really dig deep and find out if you really really want to be in this marriage. And be honest with yourself. Is being with you the best thing for him? The truth is, if you have any doubts that this isn't what's best for you AND him, you need to do the right and selfless thing and let him go.

This is solid advice. You are in panic mode right now. Trying to keep him around. But you need to access if you actually want this marriage.

There are two kinds of serial cheaters.

1. Have multi affairs, get busted, and try to stop. White knuckle it.

2. Have an affiar, get caught, put the BS thru and witness the pain it caused.....and the cheat again. Knowing what it did to the BS last time.

You are #2.

And it might be something more than "poor coping skills". It sounds like sabotage.

It seems that maybe you want out, but out scares you.

To have another affair so soon after the first (was it really the first?) may mean you are self destructing the marriage.

But now you are in the panic mode, trying to make things better...take a breath. Step back and look at your choice of having another relationship with someone who didn't matter...

I think so many people after getting caught try to make things better...when ending the M might be the right thing, as the 1st A is random, 2nd is coincidence and 3rd is a pattern.

The worst part about a second affair AFTER the first was discover to a BS is that you looked them straight in the eyes.. saw their pain.. saw them destroyed.. depressed, maybe wanting to die.. SAW all of that.. they gave you that other chance and you do it all again. What does that tell them? That you could careless about them or their feelings. At that point it’s not a “I didn’t realize how much it would hurt them” thing because yes.. you have seen that. You knew EXACTLY what it would do to him.. as my WS knew exactly what it would do to me when he did it years later... that in my opinion is the worst type of cheater.. someone who knows the exact pain it will cause again and decide to do it! Not trying to bash you.. I just know what your husband is going through.. to be frank.. your actions told him you don’t care how much pain he will be in.. some dick is worth that pain... you are not a safe partner.. not now and probably not for a while.. he should run..

you want to help him.

he has lost his self esteem. you chose OM1 and

OM2 over him.

so is he your plan C or D?

If I was in your situation, I would really spend some time thinking about your H having two affairs on you. How would you feel, the first one, he really loved her and you had to live with him while he yearned for her for a year.

Now, he has a second affair. Would you stay married to him after the second affair?

To help him, your actions speak louder than words, so you can't tell him with words that he is not your plan C or D. I guess he is plan D, because plan C is divorce.

I would write a timeline of both affairs for him. I would stop protecting the OM1 and OM2.

You could start finally protecting your H.

You put all this energy and effort in the affairs. Tell your affair partners families about the affairs. Tell your kids about your affairs. Tell the employers of OM1 and OM2

about the affairs. Use that energy and effort on your H. Even if you do not stay married to him, try to help him recover some self esteem.

Your affair had a negative impact on your H's employment.

were OM 1 and OM2 the same person?

You would want to know his thoughts about his affairs, so give him 100% honesty.

Having an affair is abusing your spouse.

Sign a separation agreement that is favorable to your H.

I had a friend whose wife had an affair. they divorced. The AP sexually assaulted their daughter, while the ex wife had the daughter in her custody.

In the settlement agreement, with the joint custody, agree not to have affair partners around your kids.

How short was the second affair? if you had sex, go get an std test for your H.

you could DNA your kids to help your H know that he is the biological father of your 3 kids.

Tell him everything, do not trickle truth.

Find a way to let him know that the best sex you ever had was with him and not the affair partners. he will not believe you, so you will have to show him.

go back to IC, but not MC. and you should pay for the IC.

I wish your family some peace. I was trying to

come up with some things to help.

It does not look good. This is his worst nightmare that it would happen again.

1) To help your H, I urge you to you ask him what he wants from you. Don't assume. Ask.

2) Why no stop sign? Opening yourself to attacks from BSes doesn't have anything to do with your 2nd A, IMO. I recommend asking the mods to put a stop sign on this.

Self-flagellation takes energy away from your healing and rebuilding your relationship. I guarantee it.

3) Have you come clean? Are there any other As in the background? (I'm just referring to cheating after making commitments. Your sex life prior to making commitments to your H are your business, IMO.)

4) Like smokenfire, I'm curious about how you justified this A to yourself. Even if you don't share it, your self-justification should be a big help in identifying at least part of what needs changing.

5) IMO you need to save yourself first, and you need to do that whether your M is rebuilt or ended. Courgae, IslandA, courage.

6) I'm with N & D on what you need to do for your own healing. Having had only 1 d-day and a W who started her work on that d-day, I'm unsure of where your H is at, though.

[This message edited by sisoon at 2:29 PM, January 24th (Wednesday)]