SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Gut instinct is an evolutionary trait that allowed humans to survive.

Trust your instincts throughout each stage.

My gut feeling is she cheated on me with OW and OM . My gut feeling is this group of miscreants knows and encouraged this behavior, my gut tells me my WW loves me and our family and she doesn't want us to break up the family. What I can't tell is if the A are on going or would if the opportunity arose. I got to know plan B isn't a option for me. In regards to the OM it was all that I could do to keep it together and it was me who was bullying him last night , I was just very aggressive and loud and short with him. When my wife returns we will have to talk I am unhappy about our relationship and our so called friends.

Thanks for clearing up the interaction with om.

Unsureman friend:

I regret that everyone in this situation is a limbo, because it affects us mentally and fiscally.

I just annoyed you with a question

Have you talked to the Private Investigator you hired in Las Vegas?

regards

Default Posted: 4:55 PM, September 24th (Sunday) View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate Message

Unsureman friend:

I regret that everyone in this situation is a limbo, because it affects us mentally and fiscally.

I just annoyed you with a question

Have you talked to the Private Investigator you hired in Las Vegas?

regards

Vatoloco, I haven't spoken to him yet I did leave a VM he said that he would call if he found something. I should get a report emailed to me with pictures. I seriously doubt that my WW would do anything on this trip I believe she realizes that I finally woke up. I apologize if I am coming across as rude or arrogant, I really am not, I am just in this limbo hell and I am not myself.

unsureman friend

I understand the difficult of the moment and I regret it.

I swear I want all this to happen to you is a mistake, that the red flags were wrong. Do not stop updating here you will find very wise members, who have verdero knowledge that will be of great help.

Hugs

UM:

Sending you strength. Next few days will be difficult and mentally exhausting. I hope you get all the answers to your questions.

I think OM was trying to be 'friendly' because your WW has undoubtedly began sounding the fire alarm with this POS and the rest of these 'friends' who are in the know that you are on to them all.

Her love bombing and him trying to suck up are their futile attempts to calm the waters with you in hopes this will all just blow over.

Get a hold of your friend who gave you the heads up ASAP.....

You need to know what he knows BEFORE your WW returns....when you confront she is going to launch a massive gaslighting, blameshifting, and minimizing campaign for the ages.

And since you have said that your friend's W is part of the crew and a potential cheerleader for the A's with this scummy couple, you need to hear what he says BEFORE his W starts to pressure him to be quiet and stay out of this.

Talk to him ASAP.

What's her behavior upon return?

VARs in car, bathroom, etc?

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 3:53 AM, September 25th (Monday)]

dbl post.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 3:54 AM, September 25th (Monday)]

Userman

OM being friendly = proof of infidelity.

OM being elusive = proof of infidelity…

See where I am going? You can just as well try to read tea-leaves or the innards of a sacrificial chicken as go on pure gut-feeling and interpreting of vague signals.

Is the gut something to go on? Well… I was in law enforcement AGES ago. I changed career quite some time ago. But I have always worked in analytical jobs involving people and – generally – problems. Gut does have a place, but it’s a terrible control factor. Look at it this way: You would never invest your lives saving on a gut feeling that your favorite sports team will finally win the league this year. Gut can only get you so far and it’s neither infallible nor reliable. LEO training is a lot based on overriding the gut, because gut-feeling and gut-fear is closely related, and gut-fear is what makes officers shoot first and ask later.

I guess the PI came up empty. At best, he gives you some vague report like “Mrs. Userman touched female identified as Mrs. (alleged)OM arm while conversing”. I am guessing you haven’t used the time to set up surveillance, talked to Mr. Rumor or gotten anything in place to move you closer to closure…

I also guess your wife realizes there is thunder in paradise. She realizes there is something wrong and that there is that heavy dark sky in the marital air. That sky might be because she thinks you have discovered her infidelity (if she is cheating). It might be because she realizes she went too far with her friendship with OMW (without cheating). It might be she has no clue as to why there are issues. But it does seem like she knows there is a problem.

It also seems that you are close-to convinced there is an affair going on. I get that. I truly do. That kissing-incident that wasn’t dealt with plus the rumor is more than enough to feed any doubts.

The worst possible outcomes IMHO right now are:

a) You ignore your emotions and soldier on, only to discover a full-blown affair after some months or years.

b) You following your emotions and wrecking a marriage that might have had issues – but not infidelity.

This is what I would do in your shoes:

Find time and space to talk to you wife. Alone, the two of you with no phone, kids or any disturbance.

Ask her if there is something going on. Tell her that you have heard rumors, have been warned by others and have noticed and seen things that support these rumors. Refer to the kissing incident as reason enough for you to take what you have seriously.

There is no need at all to tell her who told you. There is no need to tell her what evidence you have. This isn’t a court of law.

Tell her that if there is something going on or if there was something going on you will discover it. Tell her you have no interest whatsoever of being in a marriage riddled by suspicion and with no trust.

Tell her that if she tells you the truth there is a chance for the marriage – no matter what the truth might be. [I know you have already told us infidelity is a deal-breaker for you. If you tell your wife you need the truth, and that if she has cheated you are automatically filing for the Big D then don’t expect a truthful answer if she has cheated. She has nothing to lose by lying. Give her some hope, after all – you can always stick to your decision that it’s a deal-breaker after a week or two cooling-off period]

Then LISTEN. Hear what she tells you. If she admits then go for the details. Get what you need out of the conversation.

If she tells you there is nothing going on, then let her know that you need a poly so that you can put this behind you. Once again hammer the importance of the truth. Make it clear that in the poly you will ask questions about sexual encounters with others from the day you two married to now. That a failure in the poly will end the marriage but the truth NOW has hope.

The above is something that can be done NOW. It can be done and over within a few hours. It can bring closure to this terrible situation you are in.

But then… maybe the PI has already sent you proof of infidelity.

Punched in the gut, I know how you feel. You probably feel outside of yourself at times. You are confused and angry. For what its worth, I'm sorry. Someone needs to say that you and mean it.

A lot of things to say here, but I will try and make it brief. I recently found out too. You have no idea what your really in for when you get the actual evidence in your hand. Be strong.

Do not doubt yourself, this isn't your fault. I know you are confident now, but the train hasn't truly hit you yet. It's not about looks or money, as you have found out. It's about what's in your wife's head, something you have very little control over.

You will need evidence. Your wife has much to lose, which will give her ample motivation to lie. Your gut is right on this one. There are too many red flags, way too many.

If you can get access to her phone, a portion of deleted text messages can be recovered if your wife isn't tech savvy enough to properly erase deleted info. All you need is one at this point. Make a backup of her phone data on iTunes if she has an iPhone. Of course you will need her Apple ID and password.

Your cell carrier should have a detailed list of all texts and phone calls with date and time info. I believe Verizon has the actual content of the text messages stored for 5 days. You can research every number she is in contact with. Once you can match a number with a name, you start to unravel her tapestry of deceptions.

I am glad you have the financial freedom to do what you need to do. It will make your decisions easier in the coming days.

Your wife may love you, but she sounds enormously selfish. She has had much time to mull over breaking up the family. She has made her choices and now you must make yours.

If you can get her phone and get access, you will probably have all you need. Be prepared for lies until you have the smoking gun.

Tell her that if she tells you the truth there is a chance for the marriage – no matter what the truth might be. [I know you have already told us infidelity is a deal-breaker for you. If you tell your wife you need the truth, and that if she has cheated you are automatically filing for the Big D then don’t expect a truthful answer if she has cheated. She has nothing to lose by lying. Give her some hope, after all – you can always stick to your decision that it’s a deal-breaker after a week or two cooling-off period]

This is absolutely true. If you choose to ask her to confess, you must give her an out. You will get nothing but lies if she feels like the truth will gain her nothing or she will lose everything.

[This message edited by swatter555 at 8:16 AM, September 25th (Monday)]

Dyokemm, The OM is friendly on the surface, but my primordial gut is that he is an adversary of mine. I have caught him and mine wife speaking in quiet voices together in the past. Maybe it is all in my head but I have thought that these clowns were even making fun of me st a distance. Not to my face, they aren't crazy. I am a fairly large man.

Midnight My wife came home sick from her trip.

OM being friendly = proof of infidelity.

OM being elusive = proof of infidelity…

See where I am going? You can just as well try to read tea-leaves or the innards of a sacrificial chicken as go on pure gut-feeling and interpreting of vague signals.

Is the gut something to go on? Well… I was in law enforcement AGES ago. I changed career quite some time ago. But I have always worked in analytical jobs involving people and – generally – problems. Gut does have a place, but it’s a terrible control factor. Look at it this way: You would never invest your lives saving on a gut feeling that your favorite sports team will finally win the league this year. Gut can only get you so far and it’s neither infallible nor reliable. LEO training is a lot based on overriding the gut, because gut-feeling and gut-fear is closely related, and gut-fear is what makes officers shoot first and ask later.

I guess the PI came up empty. At best, he gives you some vague report like “Mrs. Userman touched female identified as Mrs. (alleged)OM arm while conversing”. I am guessing you haven’t used the time to set up surveillance, talked to Mr. Rumor or gotten anything in place to move you closer to closure…

I also guess your wife realizes there is thunder in paradise. She realizes there is something wrong and that there is that heavy dark sky in the marital air. That sky might be because she thinks you have discovered her infidelity (if she is cheating). It might be because she realizes she went too far with her friendship with OMW (without cheating). It might be she has no clue as to why there are issues. But it does seem like she knows there is a problem.

It also seems that you are close-to convinced there is an affair going on. I get that. I truly do. That kissing-incident that wasn’t dealt with plus the rumor is more than enough to feed any doubts.

The worst possible outcomes IMHO right now are:

a) You ignore your emotions and soldier on, only to discover a full-blown affair after some months or years.

b) You following your emotions and wrecking a marriage that might have had issues – but not infidelity.

This is what I would do in your shoes:

Find time and space to talk to you wife. Alone, the two of you with no phone, kids or any disturbance.

Ask her if there is something going on. Tell her that you have heard rumors, have been warned by others and have noticed and seen things that support these rumors. Refer to the kissing incident as reason enough for you to take what you have seriously.

There is no need at all to tell her who told you. There is no need to tell her what evidence you have. This isn’t a court of law.

Tell her that if there is something going on or if there was something going on you will discover it. Tell her you have no interest whatsoever of being in a marriage riddled by suspicion and with no trust.

Tell her that if she tells you the truth there is a chance for the marriage – no matter what the truth might be. [I know you have already told us infidelity is a deal-breaker for you. If you tell your wife you need the truth, and that if she has cheated you are automatically filing for the Big D then don’t expect a truthful answer if she has cheated. She has nothing to lose by lying. Give her some hope, after all – you can always stick to your decision that it’s a deal-breaker after a week or two cooling-off period]

Then LISTEN. Hear what she tells you. If she admits then go for the details. Get what you need out of the conversation.

If she tells you there is nothing going on, then let her know that you need a poly so that you can put this behind you. Once again hammer the importance of the truth. Make it clear that in the poly you will ask questions about sexual encounters with others from the day you two married to now. That a failure in the poly will end the marriage but the truth NOW has hope.

The above is something that can be done NOW. It can be done and over within a few hours. It can bring closure to this terrible situation you are in.

But then… maybe the PI has already sent you proof of infidelity.

Bigger, I am not convinced that this is still ongoing . I believe that they would start up again given the right circumstances , I believe it is just dormant. I'm gonna wait till middle of the week and gather my evidence before I confront. I will speak to the PI today and take it from there. I want to speak to my wife in a kind loving fashion and pretty much follow the script be laid out. It makes sense to me.

Take off the love blinders I am starting to see, how much my wife disrespects me and dislikes me on a daily basis. While she was gone on this trip I cleaned the house top to bottom wient large grocery shopping, put everything away, cleaned the refrigerator and did all the laundry. Instead of being thankful she was extremely critical of how I put things in pantry away and fold the clothes. I basically did a 180 on her for the day and she started text me apologies this morning. Sidenote I am also a former law-enforcement officer .

[This message edited by Unsureman at 8:15 AM, September 25th (Monday)]

UM, I'm weighing in late on this but I'd like to offer my support. First of all, trust your gut. Whether or not the A is ongoing isn't the point, the point is that you rugswept the original event and that's still haunting you so when your drunk friend said what he said, you were unable to put it aside. That's a good thing. I think that we've all had moments when we've wanted to deny reality, until it becomes undeniable.

I'm also in the camp of sitting her down and offering her an opportunity to come clean. I think the strategy you've been given is excellent. Whether you decide to D in the aftermath is up to you. The main thing is getting your WS to confess which is the best way to get to some sort of truth. You will never get the entire truth, you just won't. It's the WSs way of denying to themselves the extent of their deception and betrayal. But if you can get enough to confirm your suspicions that's enough to make some decisions as to how to proceed. No matter what you think you would do, often the moment of reality is so cataclysmic that it's unpredictable.

Which leads me to my final point: take care of yourself in this. This is one of the most painful life experiences possible. I mean drop to your knees, knife cutting your heart out, blinding pain. Anger is useful and righteous but it also clouds the feeling of stupefying pain. So, look after yourself in that. Be kind to yourself. Eat what you can. Stay away from alcohol. Get yourself support. Exercise. Grieve and process. And when you get to the other side, and you've done some healing, you will marvel that you've endured this experience. I want you to remember that. You will get through this. No matter what happens to your marriage.

Unsureman,

The way to confront your wife is IMO not relevant, the best is to do it in the way you feel more comfortable. The key point is to be consistent. You don’t have to yell, don’t have to call names, just need to keep toward the gold (that I assume is for her to come clean at this stage).

From your post seems like your W is used to manipulate you, or at least try, whenever you do something that she doesn’t like, or to get her way. IMO thats why when she cheated, the 2 times that you already know, has gone without any consequence. This may explain as well why she, probably, badmouthed you to her friends (OM and others) painting you as a controlling, insecure freak. This also may explain, if proven, why everybody (as you buddy said) knows about her affair and nobody told you…If this is true, she has damaged your reputation with your friends for a long time!

If she comes clean, at least partially, ask her who knew also if have been others.

Ask her to take a poly no matter what. You already has suffered 2 DDays, IMO you don’t need to find more evidence to ask her to take one.

One last thing, if she comes clean and wants to save the marriage, even if you don’t, make it clear that she needs to clean your name. Of course all people that knew before you, were enablers or not, must be gone.

Remember to take your time and be prepared. Amat Victoria Curam

Good luck

Are the VAR's in place? She probably feels something is amiss with you, and could be reaching out to accomplices for support. Meaning if you have VAR's down, you could get an admission of guilt. Assuming your PI comes up with squat and your phone search has come up with squat, this might be your only chance to know. When you confront her definately make sure the VARs are in place if you don't get a confession. She will reach out to someone for emotional comfort, likely the AP or AP's if they are swingers.

She hasn"t been a 'tidy' housewife in the past, Now she has even less to do over the next few days because of the weekend cleaning.

She now has even more free time.

Max sueveillance--pc, VAR, etc.--should be in place?

The soft shoe, "You can be honest with me, I love you" approach may have passed muster in the past.

But she is a repeat offender. I suggest shock and awe, if you can get the proof. Stay the course with all possible surveillance techniques.

You need finality to your repeated suffering: A hammer instead of an olive branch.

She needs to shit or get off the pot.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 1:03 PM, September 25th (Monday)]

It looks like you have a solid plan, excellent.

While she was gone on this trip I cleaned the house top to bottom wient large grocery shopping, put everything away, cleaned the refrigerator and did all the laundry. Instead of being thankful she was extremely critical of how I put things in pantry away and fold the clothes.

Yeah I have this exact same T-shirt. You had a great response to her bullshit. Now to be clear, the 180 works great at manipulation but using it that way completely misses the point of the 180. The purpose of the 180 is to detach and live for YOU. It's more like not doing favors for and paying attention to an old irrelevant acquaintance from high school, rather than a pointed 'screw you' silent treatment. The former scenario is focused on you, the latter is focused on them. It seems simple but is so very powerful.

Any updates today , Unsure?

Unsureman I recommend you go and see two or three lawyers for free consults about what you can expect in a divorce. Its always good to arm yourself with knowledge before going into battle.

When my wife returns we will have to talk I am unhappy about our relationship and our so called friends.

I would go so far as to tell her that she has a choice to make: these friends or the marriage. One of them has to go. And not just the OM and OW, but the whole crowd of debauchers she associates with. The kind of people a person hangs out with says a lot about that person.

She hangs out with these miscreants because she feels right at home with her own kind. Big question to ask yourself: "Is this the person I want to spend the rest of my life with?" You have one shot at this life. Are you going to bet it all on her?

[This message edited by LivingWithPain at 4:37 PM, September 25th (Monday)]