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You discussed with her the need for fidelity after the lesbian affair.

You thought you had set her straight after discovering the emotional affair.

You laid down the law yet again after the hot tub tryst.

She needs a come to jesus event, not more talking. She already has determined that this, too, shall pass.

She needs to see the light, once and for all.

By the way, no more martyr house cleaning on your part.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 8:40 AM, September 26th (Tuesday)]

Wrote the above post yesterday while sitting in my car. Just made the corrections.

Thank you for your continued support and comments. The PI was a bust, just pictures of the girls sitting around drinking and eating. PI said that they seemed to be bickering quite a bit. No infidelity was observed or recorded.

Currently my Wife and I are avoiding each other until this morning she tried to cuddle, I left the house early for the gym. I am going to talk to her this week about my concerns and about the comments that one of her friends husband made to me. I will not tell her who it is. She will either confess or call one of her confidantes (VARs in place). She did have a friend back when the hot tub incident happened that she was close to that cheated on her husband with a loser. The friends husband divorced her and got full custody of the kids. I know this freaked my wife out who basically cut all contact with this woman. I often wonder if she cut contact because of her friends life being a train wreck or to cover her past actions.

Could you possibly track down that friend's H, and see if he knew anything about your wife back then?

Or possibly just for some good advice from his experience? (lawyer, etc)

Sorry the PI was a bust, but it was a great idea. Hopefully, that's a good thing.

Keep the faith, brother. We are all following your story.

User

I know this freaked my wife out who basically cut all contact with this woman. I often wonder if she cut contact because of her friend’s life being a train wreck or to cover her past actions.

Once again, a no-win situation. Your wife cut off interaction with that friend = clear indication of affair. I’m guessing if she had maintained contact that too would indicate infidelity…

Lay off the smoke-signals and the goat-innards. Go for proof.

Don’t mention the rumor. Don’t tell her what you have:

“Honey – We need to talk. I have been given good, reliable information that strongly indicates you are having an affair. Since the incident in the hot-tub I have had my suspicions, and the info I have makes it impossible for me to move on without the truth. I am giving you this one-off chance to tell me the truth. I promise that no matter what you tell me I won’t react in an unreasonable manner. I also warn you that I will probably need you to take a polygraph to confirm whatever you tell me today. No – it’s not negotiable. I HAVE TO gain trust in you. Please – for the sake of us being able to rebuild our marriage – tell me the truth. I will make you this promise: If you tell me the truth and if there is no infidelity AND if you pass the poly I will seek help for my trust issues.

I also warn you that if you refuse to talk or if you refuse the poly I am simply assuming you are having an affair.”

You don’t mention whom she’s having an affair with.

You don’t give your sources – directly – feed her tid-bits if needed: “More than one person has told me of rumors” “A reliable person saw you with a man” “I got an e-mail”.

You don’t allow her to back out.

Stand your ground and stare her down if required.

[This message edited by Bigger at 11:30 AM, September 26th (Tuesday)]

Let us know how it goes and what you find...Stay strong.

Could you possibly track down that friend's H, and see if he knew anything about your wife back then?

Or possibly just for some good advice from his experience? (lawyer, etc)

Ordinary Dude, I have tried but he refuses to meet with me. He has a lot of anger towards my wife and his ex wife. This is only my speculation.

Bigger again I get it just waiting for the right time and environment to have the conversation with her. It will be this week. Just putting the words together in my head.

Do think your PI would be able to get him to open up?

Just putting the words together in my head.

My advice is to print out what Bigger has written and read it to her. You will be VERY emotional during this conversation, and it will be nearly impossible to remember all you have to say and how to say it.

Reading it will keep you on track and keep you from getting too sad, or worse, angry, to say what you must.

In addition, she will be less likely to interrupt you with smoke-screen nonsense if you are reading and have asked her to wait until you've finished.

I read my speech to my XWW, and I'm glad I did, because shortly after that, I made an unscripted speech and it was hell-fuelled and dripping with hate. I have no real clear idea of what I said, but the language was enough to embarrass George Carlin, I'm sure.

[This message edited by ChangeMaker at 1:13 PM, September 26th (Tuesday)]

Wives and husbands when have no boundaries are ripe for affairs. My WW isn't a party girl. No she's worse. She's a touchy feely church lady. My wife touches and hugs everyone. That is her way of showing friendship. She has curtailed all that back now.

Boundaries.

Do you expect her to tell you the truth?

Good VARs are in place.

Local PI?

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 1:47 PM, September 26th (Tuesday)]

Did her friend's husband provide you with any additional details about the supposed long-term affair--information that can be confirmed

Did her friend's husband provide you with any additional details about the supposed long-term affair--infor

Midnight Run, No I honestly wasn't expecting this all of these years later, I was like a deer in headlights. I tried to talk to him later but my wife was always around. No PI here the one from Napa I got from the internet, I live on the East Coast.

[This message edited by Unsureman at 2:17 PM, September 26th (Tuesday)]

The next tete-a-tete must be a bunker buster.

People change behavior on core emotions, not the visceral.

The thought of losing you must morph into an absolute, top-of-mind 'fear' of losing you.

No more 'honey, this', or 'I dislike that'.

Seek true remorse, and nothing less.

She's disrespected you long enough.

LivingwithPain. My H exactly. Church guy. Hugs and all that.

Never an issue for me before A but now - he better cut the crap!! And I make sure he knows the boundaries.

Loud and clear.

And hold onto the info that you were told the affair was "on and off for years". Wait to play the card on the duration. If she admits a ONS, play the card. If she say "no, never" tell her you know it has been going on for years. Don't tell her who you believe are the adultery partners. You have to keep in her a position of uncertainty for as long as possible about the extent of your knowledge.

Yep if you show her your cards, then that will be all she will admit to. Its basically a high stakes poker game. Make sure she doesn't know how much you know only that you know, make her show you all her cards. If she still denies, the VARS will give you the truth.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 4:00 PM, September 26th (Tuesday)]

PI said that they seemed to be bickering quite a bit.

I think that is relevant and at least confirms with your WW calling you and being upset during her trip. Was the PI able to describe the individuals in the group who were doing the bickering and/or most of it? I would take special note of who if he could tell you. I'm really curious because "friends" don't generally go on these jaunts to argue. They relax and have a good time. Sounds like they could relax enough to let some air out. I wonder what exactly about? Keep this info in mind IF she decides to tell her version of what was going on.

I seem to post this a lot in these instances but there are many times when I just don't see the point in continuing to stand on your head, digging for "evidence." Just get what you need.

Tell her your taking her to lunch and drive directly to a polygraph place. Pull into the parking lot and just say, very calmly, "I need the truth about...." And just lay out what you need to know. Tell her, "You're going to take a polygraph test in ten minutes - so please just tell me the truth."

Whatever she tells you - have her take the polygraph anyway. And it's done.

Look, if the affair is a dealbreaker (and I wouldn't say that it is until you know absolutely one way or the other about an affair - many of us have said so and changed our minds) then you don't really need details. You just need for her to admit it.

So get her to admit it.

[This message edited by LifeisCrazy at 8:20 PM, September 26th (Tuesday)]