SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I understand this pain too well.

[This message edited by QuietDan at 4:08 PM, November 9th (Thursday)]

Well a wordsmith has said something to you CSCE.

"nicenomore" - put the cards all on the table face up. Maybe terse but will spoken for the majority of men.

Sorry CECS not been around much lately.

Just sending my good wishes and praying that you both can eventually find peace. Hopefully together.

I'm kinda fond of the new you and feel your pain.

Keep trying and don't give up.

CSCE- believe me I know that a lot of what i say doesn’t follow conventional si wisdom, may come across as opinionated, crass, unsympathetic, aggressive, hurtful, etc pretty much anything that someone who is hurt or offended might wish to call it...i get it...i won’t make people feel warm and comforted with my thoughts, and probably won’t make a ton of friends with it either... but know that it’s not my goal to drive the pain further...my goal is, to the best of my abilities, make black and white the realities that are hard to address gently. And in doing so, if you are able to see through any dislike you may feel for my tone or my sentiments, you may see that what i am giving you is an unfiltered look into the mind of your BH. I do it in hopes you recognize it’s value, and that it is a tool to help you relate to the man you broke. Your healing of yourself is great, don’t stop that, but don’t let it conflict with what you have to do to heal your BH. If you want to be with him you must understand this: unllike your affair wasn’t about him, his healing IS about you. Don’t let your beliefs or “comfort zone” get in the way of doing right by him.

Please give it some thought, you are welcome to ask me anything you would like, vent at me, tell me to piss off, pm if you’re not comfortable saying anything publicly, but if you take anything away from what i am saying, it would be a success

[This message edited by nicenomore at 8:15 PM, November 9th (Thursday)]

CSCE,

Just wanted to say, as a BM, nicenomore, while direct, is also entirely correct. His analogy about the guy "jumping the fence" is exactly how I feel. And his advice about sex couldn't possibly be more correct. If it's not something your prepared to do, I suggest you make that known to your husband, because, I can tell you, he's waiting for it. Waiting for you to be the person you were with the AP for him, and more. Every man desires his wife to be the "best" with him, and to us, the "best" is mostly measured sexually; frequency, acts, enthusiasm.. That's our measuring stick. It's how most of us receive love, the idea that you gave "more", "better" or anything else to the OM will drive him insane in time.

Honestly, the advice applies for every WW, while you may not want to hear it, a good way to show your husband you love him again is to be the personal porn star that most men secretly want their wives to be. Is this a "cheap" way to win a man back? No more than a WH buying his wife things, signing a post-nup, or flattering his wife constantly to make her feel wanted and desired again. You and WH's should have been doing these things all along; it just becomes so much more important after an A.

First, I want to say that the pie analogy is about the best explanation one can give about how many BSs feel after finding out. For me, I didn't learn about an A until 5 years after it ended. During the 1+ year long A and for those 5 years after when I didn't yet know sex was rare and rejections by her were frequent. I also got to the point where I largely gave up.

What I came to figure out many years later is that she felt a lot of guilt about it. And she didn't know what to do or how to handle it. No IC because that would have required explaining to me why she wanted IC. So we each silently suffered and didn't address it. I assumed that I simply wasn't desireable and also that she just was a woman that wasn't that interested in sex.

And then DDay. And my world changed.

Her guilt levels shot higher. My self confidence and self image fell into a deep dark hole because obviously she wasn't a woman who wasn't interested in sex after all. And in 1985 IC was still kind of a stigma so that didn't happen. And I stopped even trying to initiate because I just knew I was worthless to her and she kept her distance because I acted disinterested.

And somewhere along the way she decided to take the risk of coming after me. Subtle actions at first and as I stopped ignoring those actions with subtle indications of interest, she became more open/aggressive about it. And I began to regain confidence that maybe I was attractive to her and responded accordingly. And we progressed to the point now where, even at our advanced age, I have no doubt that she truly desires me and I return the feeling willingly.

The points here are that it often is a very slow, lengthy process that starts with baby steps and has to be ongoing, in fits and starts. And both of you have to be brave enough (you especially) to not let fear of trying paralyze you and not let a bump here and there derail you. And given what I have read about you and your H on SI, you each have to talk about this honestly and openly for it to start and move onward. I know this apparently is so excruciating to your H that he may very well reject initial attempts to even discuss. All you can do is keep trying in the hope that he will come to see that you are sincere.

I am sure many posters are correct in saying that he feels like he is totally unattractive to you, undesired by you and therefore will resist at first efforts to make him feel otherwise.

I have to tell you, my W's OM was a Marine corpsman in Vietnam Nam. I went to college and law school. He was a macho manly fisherman, hunter, outdoorsman. I don't fish, hunt or want to camp. I just "knew" I couldn't stack up in her eyes and that their sex must have been so much more incredible. I know now I was wrong; that she was just broken and depressed from dropping out of a graduate professional program at the time and, like you, was sucked in by all the praise and affirmations. But I didn't know it then so I felt worthless. I know from this thread that you have tried to re-affirm to your H that to you he is THE MAN and always has been and that your OM was really nothing. It just takes a long time for the BS to really believe that. All I can say is don't give up. Keep letting him know that he is and always has been the ideal man and that that your temporary departure from reality was just that and that the real CSCE wants and needs him simply because he is who he is.

[This message edited by 1985 at 10:40 PM, November 10th (Friday)]

Then, too, csce's bh may never respond to her overtures for intimacy. Some men are cut from a certain cloth. They simply can't picture themselves having sex with a woman who betrayed them. For them, it's simply,without question, a bridge that can't be crossed.

You've worked hard, and I hope it ultimately leads to R in your case.

Hang in there.

[This message edited by parent4 at 11:24 PM, November 10th (Friday)]

My husband was my first. He awakened my sexuality, introduced me to those new, good moves. And while he tried to show me and encourage me to a more adventurous, kinkier kind of sex, he also respected my very conventional view of sex and femininity. Today, in terms of my self-esteem, I now understand that being a little more adventurous with husband would have cost me nothing. Quite the opposite, fact.

My husband learned of my affair 18 months after it had ended (sexting and then two physical encounters with a COW). On that day, my life – along with his this time – was smashed to pieces once again (18 months earlier, the realisation and shame of what I had done had already destroyed me).

Shattered in my self-esteem, shattered by the way I now imagined my husband looked at me, I no longer had anything to lose, except the one I love. So I cast aside all my principles, all my preconceptions, my somewhat narrow ideas about female sexuality. I gave myself entirely, explored everything. And what I discovered was so good that I even overcame my fear of a more invasive, but much more liberating form of contraception. Today, I think – not without a little pride – that actually I have nothing to envy porn stars, but that this does not make me a slut. I have enjoyed making this discovery about myself, and was ecstatic to discover it with the man I love, my husband.

All of this, I experienced during this time of truths. And I see that while sex is very important, it is neither a bandage, nor a tool for reconciliation. It is the expression of a desire. Desire for sex, desire for love, for words and gestures, desire for tenderness, desire for joy…

But none of that alters the fact that, when the pain, sadness, anger and all of those feelings take hold of my husband and draw him away from me, when to protect himself, for days on end he does not speak to me, does not touch me, does not look at me, except where strictly necessary… at those times, I too am lost.

CSCE, I have no answer, and often my own despair and shame catch up with me and cause me to stumble. Often, my despair submerges me and I no longer know anything. But I do know that sometimes it only takes something small, just a smiley, a word or a friend to revive me (sometimes I feel like a labrador actually, but I suppose that’s not so bad).

I think that, more than time, more than sex, it’s love that carries me.

Hang in there, if only for yourself.

“Today, in terms of my self-esteem, I now understand that being a little more adventurous with husband would have cost me nothing. Quite the opposite, fact.”

Wish this is the realization that is key. Being sexually adventurous and exploratory with the one you love is not shameful or slutty... because it is exclusive. Being that way outside the marriage IS...this is the Irony that waywards often don’t understand ....they don’t want their spouse to view them as slutty so they say, but they have no problem being freaky for a stranger... the very definition of slutty... now the problem is once a wayward has made this mistake sexually, the betrayeds, particular men, are furious that they were forced to watch PG13 and paid for it, while OM got the good seats at a rated R flick for free... and the right thing to do if the betrayed desires is to give your betrayed seats to whatever movie they like (When they are ready of course). Unfortunately, as you eluded to, it still will never make things 100% right. A betrayed still has to imagine the AP every when they see you. Still has to envision the AP and the sex acts they didn’t get..etc etc. for me the real mind movies and humiliation stopped after i slept with the APs spouse...and that’s why i will never regret it, but obviously that’s not the universal solution for everyone... But the point of the th message is...being sexually adventurous with your spouse is a beautiful thing, and wise before infidelity...after infidelity, it’s nothing short of a necessity to avoid divorce...

I just want to say everyone in this thread is killing it. This whole thread should be required reading for BH and WW alike.

CSCE, are you ok?

Parent4 - Yes, I'm ok. Thank you for asking.

I've been feeling overwhelmed and exhausted, lately - like I'm fighting Goliath and the whole world wants me to fail. (I realize that's not true.)

I'll post soon.

I'm glad that you know that isn't true.

Your posts on other threads show a lot of growth, and it's good to see you here sharing with others.

I wish you the best.

I think many bs admire your efforts to make things right, and hope for the best.

Keep your chin up.

Take or leave advice given. It's your life.

How did the David vs Goliath situation turn out, I don't remember?

You need to break the ice with him. Weather is getting nice outside. Tell him you need to get out and go for walk after work and ask him if he would like to go with you. Do this a couple times a week. Maybe sooner or later he will go with you. Go for the walk no matter whether he goes with you or not. (no pressure)

More drastic measure: After supper, if both in the kitchen tell him " I know this is against your wishes, I apologize, but I really need this" and hug him for 15 seconds. If positive reception then play by ear. If not, let go and say "I apologize and we can discuss this later if you wish". Then walk away. This will give you both time to think about it before discussing. (Do this on a Sunday night or week night.)

At some point you need to take a chance.

Personally waiting to see if you step up your dessert game for the Holidays.

Good Luck.

CSCE, I have no desire to see you fail at all. Actually the opposite. A desire to educate you to some of the potential issues and challenges. I thought I noticed an elephant in the room. Dancing around and ignoring the elephant doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that it will go away on it's own.

I threw a rock in the pond and I noticed that it created a lot of waves. Even a few other threads seem to have been sparked by it.

One line of thought regarding physical intimacy in a relationship. It needs to be intentionally maintained and nurtured. Like a garden. Letting your emotions rule over your physical relationship isn't always wise. Emotions at fickle and can be very destructive.

A lot of parallels between growing a garden and growing a relationship.

CSCE:

Only you know your situation. Only you can deal with it in a constructive manner. These guys have been giving you 2X4's but I guess its tough love. Actually, we are all rooting for you two. I just want you to know that what ever happens, you can still find happiness.

Here is your fight song girl!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZxO7Uy2E-g

I, for one, honestly believe you suffered from acute limerance, which was intensified because of your depressive state.

You didn't plan a new life with om; hell, you couldn't even say his name out loud.

BS has every right to pull up stakes, as you've said repeatedly. But does he fully understand the root of the behavior?

[This message edited by parent4 at 3:43 PM, November 18th (Saturday)]

Hope you are doing well.

[This message edited by QuietDan at 8:37 AM, November 19th (Sunday)]

I meant to post a long series of responses this afternoon, but didn't get a chance because BH asked if I wanted to go to a movie with him. (!!!)

I nearly fell out of my chair when he asked. I'm so thankful for the invite. So very, very thankful.

I've been dealing with a string of rough days, but today...today has been good.