SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You're going to be one hell of a wife going forward under any scenerio, and hopefully with him.

I second that! No question about it!

CSCE:

Whatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you are wrong. There are always difficulties arising which tempt you to believe that your critics are right. To map out a course of action and follow it to an end requires courage. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

You have shown all of us your courage so far. Here is another Minnesotan with courage that inspires me. Must be something in the water up there: ..........................................................................................................................http://wfla.com/2017/11/26/first-woman-with-down-syndrome-competes-in-miss-usa-state-pageant/

Thanks, guys - I really hope that's true.

I've never worked so hard for anything in my entire life.

If I can speak to "the work" for a minute, I think this is important to acknowledge (especially for the other WS's out there):

"The work" is absolutely terrifying and exhausting. Not only because of what I'm learning about myself, but because of the fear that I won't be able to overcome it. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm constantly riddled with self doubt, I am regularly convinced I am a basket case, I worry about if I'm "doing it right" and "doing enough" every single day. The fear of not doing enough plagues me.

On Friday, I told my IC about the fear (the "not enough" thing has become a focal point), and she asked me if there was anything I could think of that I wasn't doing. She made me repeat my answer over and over: "No, because if I could I would have done it. No, because if I could I would have done it. No, because if I could I would have done it." Even then, the worry that there might be more was unfazed. It's a serious issue for me, and I'm frightened not only that I won't be able to shake its hold on me, but also that I won't be able to function without it.

I don't know how to function without it.

It's frustrating to be able to recognize destructive coping mechanisms without being able to alter my behavior because I don't know what to replace them with, or how to function any other way. It's like being awake but paralyzed - aware but impotent.

I say all of this because when I first got here, I didn't know what "the work" meant. In some ways I still don't, but I'm getting a better idea of what it entails.

[This message edited by CantSleepCantEat at 10:51 PM, November 26th (Sunday)]

You've come so very, very far in your journey.

Try to remember that fear and faith can't occupy the same space.

"The work" is absolutely terrifying and exhausting. Not only because of what I'm learning about myself, but because of the fear that I won't be able to overcome it. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm constantly riddled with self doubt, I am regularly convinced I am a basket case, I worry about if I'm "doing it right" and "doing enough" every single day. The fear of not doing enough plagues me.

CSCE

The journey you're on you haven't traveled before, so uncertainty and doubt's creeping in which is normal. The main thing though is your heart is in the right place. When or if errors are made they're made unselfishly and with 100% effort. Can't ask for more.

I have my own personal SI Hall of Fame category, consisting of SI members who have shown exceptional post DD, strength, courage, commitment,urgency, humility,decisiveness, conviction, humbleness, transparency, and other favorable characteristics. I've only inducted 3 so far, you, ohforanewme and SpaceGhost. I'm sure their are others, however I've only been a member for 2 weeks or so.

You've looked in the mirror and don't like what you've seen. I get that. But do acknowledge, what you see in the mirror is a lot prettier than you were in August. Please discontinue beating yourself up. You've already courageously granted SI members to 2x4 you for the last 4-months. That's enough. They'll gladly do the work. Try if you will, to begin liking yourself and who you are becoming. It's something special. I mean that.

[This message edited by Jorge at 12:13 PM, November 27th (Monday)]

I'm constantly riddled with self doubt, I am regularly convinced I am a basket case, I worry about if I'm "doing it right" and "doing enough" every single day.

The above is what it takes to be a truly decent, conscientious, human being . . .

I wish I could tell you that this will all change, but it probably won't. It was a part of you initially, you've super-charged it. You will most likely eventually apply it to other aspects of your life as well. BUT - You will probably get better and better at handling these feelings and uncertainties.

I've recommended relaxing in the past . . . maybe that wasn't the best way to look at it. Perhaps the Greene quote - "It isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain." You are starting to do that, I think, more and more.

You ARE in the midst of a storm, and you are dealing with it as best you can, so take (and appreciate) the GOOD with the bad. I'm glad you enjoyed a movie together, and I truly hope you can appreciate things together more often, (even when the damn storm seems like it'll never end). You persevere.

[This message edited by c24j at 6:31 PM, November 27th (Monday)]

I understand your desperation to do whatever it takes to fix this. Guilt and fear are very powerful things. Get educated, learn all that you can. Increase your knowledge and self awareness. Make a list and then and focus on the one... Two... Or top three... And prioritize and focus. One thing at a time. One step at a time. People are complex. Think about what it takes to break a single bad habit and replace it with one good habit. Some things can't really be eliminated, but, rather, controlled and redirected towards helpful useful things.... All of this takes time. Months, years... Somethings are like being an alcoholic... Always there, one step from stumbling and falling. But, get up, dust yourself off and start over, and build upon the successess. Find out what you can change in yourself. Make piece with what is inherently you and can not be changed. Direct and control it as best as you can. You are trying to discover and change yourself in an extensive makeover. Not all of it will stick and hold the first, or, second, or... Attempt. You sound a bit overwhelmed. One step at a time. Break it down. Focused and steady.

[This message edited by QuietDan at 9:42 PM, November 27th (Monday)]

CSCE:

The woman who does not require validation from anyone is the most feared individual on the planet. - Mohadesa Najumi

Hi everyone - thank you. I appreciate each response from those that are still sticking around to see me though this!

I didn't mean to sound quite so doom and gloom in my last post... I'm ok. My intention was to simply convey that this isn't easy, mostly for any new waywards who are reading and feeling less-than-confident in their own journey. This shit is hard. And scary. I'm starting to think that if it feels easy, you're doing it wrong!

As an update:

I'm starting to feel the pressure now that the end of the year is only a month away - especially since BH and I will be apart starting 12/18/17, so it's more like there's really only 3 weeks left. I'm scared to talk about anything "after".

This will be our first Christmas apart in 10 years, and might be the last one we'll ever have. Ugh, just typing that makes me so sad.

Last night, he said he might meet with a lawyer, which was tough to hear. I asked him if he does, to please just tell me. He seemed surprised that I would want to know.

He said he's been feeling pressured to make a decision, and I had to stress to him that I'm ok waiting. What matters is that he be confident and at peace with his decision - If that means he's ready to decide today, there's no point waiting for the sake of waiting. But by the same token, if he isn't sure by midnight on New Year's Eve, he doesn't have to choose just for the sake of choosing, either. I will be here until he knows he doesn't want me to be - whenever that is.

That being said, I'd be lying if I said my mind hasn't been struggling with the impending unknown.

Things like:

If he says he wants a divorce, what then? How do I act? Do I still tell him where I am, when I'm out? Do I still do all the chores? Do I still keep the reason for our troubles under wraps to mutual friends? At what point do I start planning for life without him? Do I still hold out any hope, or would I be deluding myself? At what point is it really "game over"?

I honestly don't know. Part of me doesn't want to even think of it - like just the thought could conjure it into reality.

Now that he's softening a little, I'm also having trouble with my hope. I'm afraid of it, like it will hurt me. In some ways it was so much easier to have hope when things seemed hopeless - operating on purly blind faith, with no expectation of "success". Now that he sometimes seems torn, I'm terrified. It feels like the chances are closer to 50/50, and the disappointment of a near miss is so much worse than a blowout where you never had a chance.

I don't know where I'm going with this. My head is a bit of a jumble these days.

CSCE- the best thing you can do is unequivocally support any decision his heart makes. He will ultimately have to decide if his love for you can conquer his feelings of inadequacy and humiliation. And what you can do to re enforce him is subtly show him you respect his strength and resolve. Humility is a waywards best friend. A divorce may be inevitable but it’s also not always the end of a relationship. Perhaps after he’s gone out and explored his options for happiness he may realize your worth a second chance..maybe he will realize it before divorcing, maybe not at all.. the question you have to introspectively ask yourself is will you be a safe spouse when/if he time comes, and will you wait for him to come to that conclusion, even after divorce?

nicenomore -

Perhaps after he’s gone out and explored his options for happiness he may realize your worth a second chance..maybe he will realize it before divorcing, maybe not at all.. the question you have to introspectively ask yourself is will you be a safe spouse when/if he time comes, and will you wait for him to come to that conclusion, even after divorce?

I can't guarantee I'd be a safe spouse - all I can say is that I've been doing everything I can do to make myself into one, and to demonstrate that to him. I would continue to make that a priority, and to work on my boundaries, but it's a process.

However, I don't know that I could wait, if we split. I want to say yes - I want to say of course. But truly, I can't.

I love him. I do. I love him enough that I will go, if that's what he wants. I love him enough that I will stay in limbo until he decides. But if I leave, I think I'm gone. My heart can't take hoping forever. I can't spend my life waiting in the wings on the off chance he'll give me a second chance because he realizes the grass isn't greener.

Either what I've done is a deal breaker or it isn't. Either what we had is worth it, or it's not. That should be irrespective of "his options", shouldn't it? And yes, maybe with time he'd have some clarity and maybe if he found he missed me he'd be willing to give it another shot... But I don't think so. And it would be too hard on both of us for me to hold out hope for that if it never came.

Maybe it's my own issues talking, and maybe I'd feel differently when in the midst of it, but my gut says divorce would be the end of the road for us, which is largely why I want him to be confident in his choice.

It seems like there is an awful lot of soft-pedaling going on here with regard to the potential outcome of your situation. Not that it's bad... I think it's due to the fact that you have come here, listened when it's hard, and worked your ass off. There are a lot of likable things about you and the way that you've presented yourself and your situation. Kudos to you for taking this on. Further kudos for sharing your story to help others. After all, you and I aren't so unalike. We both came here for help and direction when we were lost, and we stayed to help prevent other people from making the mistakes that we did.

That said, there is an inevitability that comes across in your posts, almost as if the desperation with which you are going through your process is due to an internal acknowledgement that this might be the end of the road for your marriage. That you KNOW that the only chance that you have is to pour everything out, despite that not being enough.

That's a good thing.

Your affair was a symptom of an unexamined life lived inauthentically. How do you find your authentic self? What does CSCE look like regardless of her Facebook relationship status? CSCE isn't a lost cause because she had an affair, and she won't be a lost cause if she gets a divorce because of it.

Examine your life. Think about your dreams and aspirations, set goals. Live boldly, passionately, without fear! Pour yourself out for your marriage until you can't, then pour yourself out for yourself.

You have shown all of us your courage so far. Here is another Minnesotan with courage that inspires me. Must be something in the water up there:

We Minnesotans are pretty great. Perhaps it's the AMOUNT of water, as opposed to what's in it.

Continue to support bs's healing until a decision is made. Should he opt for divorce, know that you've done everything humanly possible to resurrect the marriage. Absolutely everything. And I'm sure he knows it.

He's dealing with an ages-old conundrum called love, and is likely between a rock and a hard place.

Remain supportive throughout.

[This message edited by parent4 at 10:46 AM, November 29th (Wednesday)]

I totally understand what you’re saying CSCE. I guess my point is, without officially divorcing, could you accept a trial separation? Do you have it in you to allow him to explore his own needs without effectively pulling the plug? Look SI typically has a hard stance. Either he can recommit to R, no questions, and anything he explores sexually or emotionally out of the marriage is cheating just like you did, and such and such and so forth, OR, hard line divorce 180, keep his intregory etc etc and then he can go out and experience life. Im not so sure i categorically agree with the black and white options so often encouraged here. I know my case is exceptional sure, but sometimes i question. Whether the Term RA is a blanket for every possible outcome outside traditional R or traditional D. What i am saying is, maybe and actually likely, he loves you, and wants to stay with you, but can’t look himself in the mirror every morning staying with you having been cuckolded. It’s profoundly damaging to a BS sense of self worth, and in particular for men, ego. I know, I’ll get 2x4ed, flamed, argued with, etc told that MH is no better than the original cheater etc etc. but if you reach deep down, and you love him, know that he loves you, but needs to have experience outside the monogamy you opened onesidedly and then closed as well, could you accept it? Again i never think going out and having sexual experiences should be done to punish, that solves nothing. That is a real RA. But let’s be honest. Sex is exciting, gratifying, and miraculous for our sense of manhood (mans perspective). It’s why we do it. if you could understand that anything he was doing was not designed to hurt you, but rather to reestablish confidence in himself. That he got to have fun too, i mean sex with someone new, who isn’t tainted with pain they caused you, is rewarding on many levels, and he didn’t have to spend the rest of his life thinking that “she got the experience i never did” could you accept it and work on R after he feels righted? Maybe offer him the option to a temporarily one sided open marriage, fully transparent, he can choose to do it or not? With the knowledge it’s temporary, and that your love for him would endure it because you know how bad you have hurt him? Perhaps invite a third woman for him to enjoy a threesome? Im pretty sexually adventurous, and I don’t think either of those things are necessarily cheating if you consent to them willingly, are ok with them, and so is he, and no one is deceived in the process? Look i know it’s unconventional, and plenty here will respond with traditional views contradicting this, but my thought is, if you have played all your cards, you want to be together, but the sexual component is permanently the stumbling block, do you love him enough to try the last option?

Just some food for thought, and obviously dependent on your BHs view on it as well, but if it’s the last play of the game, are you ok with throwing the Hail Mary? Please don’t misconstrue this as me asdvising him to go out and fuck the next woman that gives him the invite, its more about giving him an option to recommit to the M After separation, his choice of what he does, giving him leeway in the grey area, instead of the conventional black and white options.

CSCE,

Note, one of the common suggestions/recommendations given to BS's in these forums is to innitiate and begin getting a Divorce, with the caveat that the divorce process can be stopped at any time if things change and Reconciliation is chosen. So, even if the BS decides to initiate the steps towards getting a divorce, a wayward who truly wants to reconcile, should consider staying faithful and working on reconciliation as a possibility until the divorce process is completed and final.

I can't guarantee I'd be a safe spouse

CSCE - This quote surprised me, but I'm thinking perhaps I'm misinterpreting it. My interpretation is that should you stay with BS, you cannot guarantee what you did wouldn't happen again. If I'm mistaken please accept my apologies. Please clarify, if you will.

Your spirit sounds weakened. You seem different in this post. It sounds as if you have one hand in your pocket reaching for the white flag, or handing the gun to someone to put you out of your misery.

You did mention the pressure of the year end timeline is getting to you so perhaps your words reflect that reality. I'm just concerned that you might be adopting a mindset that doesn't serve reconciliation well.

Considering it takes 2-5 years for his pain to subside, are you saying you're unwilling to adhere to this timeline? Should he divorce, are you saying you are gone forever? You may know your husband, but projecting it would be absolutely final doesn't seem consistent with your fighting nature. You've fought hard and you endurance is being challenged. I understand this, but you've come this far.........

[This message edited by Jorge at 12:32 PM, November 29th (Wednesday)]

CSCE: I visited SI's library and received greater clarity on the term "safe" as it pertains to SI's subject matter, so I kind of answered my own question, but I still would like to know specifically why you could not guarantee being a safe WW. Thank you.

I also want to apologize for a post I made a few days ago. I offered 10 possible mind scenarios that BH might be thinking of. I thought I was offering a different angle, but every time i reread it, it sounds ill advised, unnecessary and piling on. Please accept my apologies if this is how you took it.

Hi everyone - I'm at work so I have to be brief.

Xhz700 - I'm always so glad when you chime in. Finding out you're a fellow Minnesotan - well, now it makes sense why!

There's a feeling of inevitability in my posts because there's a feeling of inevitability in my psyche these days. A foreboding that I'm having trouble addressing. Things are good, considering. We talk - sometimes about hard stuff, sometimes about easy stuff. But as the days go by I can feel myself leaning into the hard - whereas I used to avoid it, now it feels like "what's there to lose?" So I admit I'm scared, to him. I answer his difficult questions, like why I seem to be doing worse these days (he's noticed it, too). In some ways I'm seeking out the difficult, heart-wrenching places because enjoying the moments of sun feels too vulnerable right now. I've gotten pretty good at handling heartache, and with all the instability in my life these days, at least heartache is familiar.

That sounds so messed up. Ugh.

Parent4 - I really hope this is true. If I found out there was something I could have done but didn't... It would eat me alive. It's really important to me that I give it my all - I know it's worth it.

Nicenomore - I think I probably could handle it, but it wouldn't be pretty. I'd be a mess, but if BH had any interest in that, I wouldn't say "no" outright - though I'd have a lot of questions. But I really, truly, can't see him having any interest in that. Like, whatsoever.

QuietDan - It would require a conversation, as there are a couple of ways it can be interpreted. I don't want to appear disrespectful of his decision by acting as if it isn't real, and burdening him with constantly having to push me away as he is trying to detach. That being said, I don't want to do anything to trigger or otherwise set back his healing, either. I'm fine continuing as I have been, but at some point it becomes silly to tell him where I am if he no longer cares, you know? I'm certain we can negotiate the fine points, it's just a matter of what he wants from me.

Jorge - I should have explained myself better. I consider guarantees to be arrogant. Prior to the A, I would have guaranteed I'd never have one (as would probably everyone I knew). Guarantees keep your guard down and leave you vulnerable, because they are assumed. I'm not willing to be vulnerable anymore, and part of that means always being on guard to enforce my boundaries and put my hard-fought knowledge about myself to use. So I don't give guarantees, anymore. I acknowledge anything is possible so I'm prepared for everything.

Besides that, being "safe" is about how your spouse feels, in addition to what you're doing. If BH doesn't feel safe with me, am I safe? I can't control his feelings, so I can't guarantee for that reason, too.

I know I could handle the healing timeline. 2-5 years doesn't scare me, except when I think about if BH could handle it. His IC days he has "low frustration tolerance", which means he has a harder time than most people when dealing with difficult situations.

Anyway, my concern is after the divorce is final. If BH wanted to work on it, or was even open to that idea, then maybe. But that's really not how he is. He doesn't change his mind.

Ok, here's the thing: if BH said "I think I need to divorce to feel like there were consequences, but I still feel like we might have a chance" or "I want to divorce right now, but I'm open to seeing if there's a future for us once I'm in a better place" or "I just need to be on my own for a little while to get my head straight, and it's unfair to keep us both in limbo while I do that", I might be able to work with that. We'd have to discuss what it meant.

But if he says "I've given it a lot of thought. I know you've tried your absolute hardest, but I just can't invest myself in something that has been broken so badly."... No, in that case I don't think I could wait and see if he somehow didn't mean it.

I should say that it's not like I'd be running off to someone else - but at some point, you have to face reality and move on. I don't know when that is, but I know it's at some point on the path of D.

CSCE:

"I wanted you to see what real courage is, instead of getting the idea that courage is a man with a gun in his hand. Its when you know you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what. You rarely win, but sometimes you do."

- Atticus Finch

To Kill A Mockingbird

CSCE, at first I couldn't root for you, but now, I'm all in. Have courage and believe in your happiness no matter how this ends.