SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You noted that you've long had problems with sex. Did you enjoy sex with AP?

As a BH myself, all I can say is that time is not on your side OP.

I had to force myself to have sex with my WW the first time we got back together. I had the ED and all that many times, but I eventually pushed through it and am able to perform.

But I cannot say it is "intimate" sex.

Quantifiably it may be better sex in that she and I don't really hold back any more, but I have yet to feel like we are intimate. I don't know if that sense of intimacy will ever return to me. Right now. "mating" is the best I can expect and I'm taking it for what it is.

What I'm saying is that, even if you do start having sex with your husband again, it may not be the emotionally fulfilling sex you are hoping will happen. It may be the opposite. Not trying to rain on your parade, but it would be better to find out sooner than later, and quit wasting each other's time.

Aw, dear CECS...I've left your thread a while back but I've been reading. It is obvious you are working your ass off to get to the bottom of your issues that brought your marriage to a grinding halt. The revelations you've shared here are evidence you are trying, and succeeding, at peeling back the onion.

When reading this thread in its entirety, I have noticed some unique characteristics. The majority of responses are BS. Many of those responders are hopeful you can R and admire the amount of work you've done. Secondly, there are not many waywards responding - I think - because there's not much need for 2x4's - maybe because you aren't showing much wayward thinking and the BS's have been able to gently redirect you when your thoughts started veering off a healthy path.

I think the hardest thing I read here on SI is when a BS has a completely remorseful WS and they still can't see a way forward without divorcing. I don't begrudge them that choice - it's just that it hurts them too - how much easier would it be to divorce a WS who is still cheating or being emotionally abusive. But that's not who you are...you are remorseful and making choices that reflect respect and concern for your BH post dday.

Please stay on this path CECS, regardless of what happens with the marriage. I suspect you will. Your growth and introspection has not gone unnoticed here on SI. I'm sure your BH sees it too. Ultimately, an emotionally healthy CECS is what's best for CECS, whether she's married or not.

There's so very much to process, and you're working so hard to process it, as well any new revelations that come up that need mental attendance.

Now, while I suspect you usually feel the temptation to do everything possible, and when you've done that, perhaps obsess a bit on what else you could or should do. That's a wonderful, responsible, commendable attitude.

- BUT -

Don't forget to take breaks, maybe just little ones, daily, and try to get in a solid hour or two a week, when you don't think about your marriage, your husband, or even yourself. Do something - hopefully relaxing (but it actually doesn't have to be). It's just important that your mind gets to reset a part of itself periodically while you're concentrating on (or simply enjoying) something totally outside the realm of 'What's my next step? What should I be doing about this? How can I help us heal? etc. etc." . . . just once and a while. Don't let yourself burn out on what is one of the greater challenges you will ever face.

With modest resets every now and then the challenges should be more easily surmountable. In my opinion, your husband should be doing this too.

ASCL summed up very succinctly something that I've been feeling since DD.

"He noticed. He noticed a lot. And has become aroused. But seems to be bothered by the fact that he still wants me. Almost like he hates himself for being drawn to me and finding me attractive. Like it has made it even harder for him because he has feelings of being angry at me yet also desperately wanting me."

It's the feeling of between torn between two diametrically opposed emotions that causes the greatest anguish. Love and hate, compassion and anger, arousal and disgust...

CSCE, I can almost guarantee that a part of him is desperate to hold you and be with you physically. It's his male pride and deeply damaged sense of sexual value that's holding him back in that regard, I suspect.

Currently, your husband's logical brain is saying: she was never really interested in sex with me much, so if she slept with OM it must mean he turns her on more than me. And that, let me tell you, is utterly intolerable for a man. For a guy, the idea that your wife sleeps with you out of simple affection, or to please you, is slightly condescending. Add to that the knowledge that someone else got access to your body without having to marry you or show you true commitment (which is what we men are taught by society, rightly or wrongly, that all woman desire above all)... Well, he just feels like you're not compatible any more and that wanting you makes him just another guy.

Men want and need to feel desirable, just like women. And if our own wives desire someone else more than us, it's a killer blow to our self-esteem.

Your H needs to know you want him. Not for his kindness, not because he takes out the bins, or cries at Bambi or has a good job and buys you stuff. He doesn't want a pity f*ck or a reward f*ck.

He needs to know you find him hot and just want to screw him occasionally. Because you enjoy it, and enjoy him.

It's encouraging that you recognise there are some issues in your mind when it comes to sex, and that they need resolving. You remind me a little of my wife in that respect - she was self-conscious about it, and it inhibited our sex life to an extent. Ironically, the A helped to dispel those inhibitions, and she is now a lot more at ease with her sexuality. Whatever happens between us, that is a positive thing for her personally, and I think if you are able to find a way to accept your own desires, whatever they may be or may not be, then it will benefit both you and your H. It might even lead to a successful R for you. I hope it does.

Here endeth the lesson. Sorry for droning on!

PS: By way of a disclaimer, I may be totally wrong about your H and his views on this particular subject, in which case I'm sorry. Just disregard everything I wrote.

PPS: I bet I'm not, though. ;-)

How are you, CSCE?

Yeah I was wondering how you're doing as well.

I'm rooting for you guys.

I think we should let her sit back and relax (if she can) for a while. Hopefully CSCE is taking a (much needed) break, or is just really involved with other things.

[This message edited by c24j at 10:31 PM, November 7th (Tuesday)]

Hi everyone.

Apologies if I made anyone worry. I will respond to your comments, but not tonight.

At first, I took a few days away because I was getting really discouraged and feeling hopeless as a result of some of the responses I was getting. I don't want to be the kind of person who gives up, anymore. The old CSCE would give up in the face of such improbable (impossible?) odds. The old CSCE would protect herself by taking the easy way out. Not this time. Not anymore. Not now.

I am realistic, but I have come to recognize and embrace that the hard path is often the one most worth traveling, and that a worthy fight is worth fighting, regardless of the outcome. So, I needed to step away for a little while to catch my breath and regroup so that I didn't let discouragement turn into despair.

However...I'm back today because I think I may need help.

One year ago today was the first time I had sex with AP.

BH is having a really hard time with it, and I'm struggling, too. The feelings of self-disdain and disgust are strong enough that I feel physically ill. BH is unable to focus and has been attempting to distract himself all day, without success. It's awful. He doesn't know if he wants me around or to go away, and I don't know how to give him space while not making him feel abandoned. I want so badly to comfort him but I don't know how, since he doesn't want me close.

I hate that I have done this to us. I hate that I brought this pain into our lives. I hate that I saddled us both with this baggage because of my inadequacies and inability to recognize them. I hate that I've driven this wedge between us, and that I have robbed him of his peace. God, I hate it all so much. I'm fighting tooth and nail to not hate myself, but it's hard.

I don't know what I'm even expecting in response, but considering that not asking for help when I needed it was part of what let me debase myself in such a horrific way, I am working to change that. So, this is me saying...I'm having a hard time.

I need help, tonight.

Not to sure where the boundaries are here. If you are a Christian, Prayer. I am flawed and broken as well. Prayer made a significant difference for both my wife and me. I will say a prayer for you two.

[This message edited by QuietDan at 10:14 AM, November 9th (Thursday)]

Cecs,

You know we can’t reallly help you tonight.

I hear you. I feel your pain because you have allowed yourself to finally feel something.

I feel your betrayed’s pain and it is awful.

Feel it. Anguish. Heartache. Devastation. Life altering.

If you can feel it, you’ve learned something.

Just breathe. It’s happening cause it happened. Tomorrow, bless fully comes.

But, we are here. We are here!!!

CECS,

Your agony is so apparent that it causes me pain to read your thoughts.

The greatest teacher that ever lived was betrayed by every friend that he had, tortured, executed by one of the most excruciating forms of capital punishment known to man (the word excruciating comes from the word "crucify"), and still said with one of his last breaths, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." If he could forgive us for what we did and still continue to do, you have to do the same for yourself.

"We know not what we do." It could be argued that we very well knew what we were doing when we did it, but we wander our days, making blunder after blunder, as the children that we are. Your writing style shows your brilliance, yet, you rationalized everything that you did at the time. I cannot say anything about that except to say that you needed an emotional connection like a person that was drowning needs air.

However, I have seen few on here at SI that have shown the true remorse that you have for those rationalizations, and I know that you will continue to castigate yourself no matter what we say. All we can offer is love from afar to a fellow traveler on this dark road we share.

We send our admiration for your unflagging efforts, and can only pray that you find happiness at the end of this road where ever it leads you.

[This message edited by skerzoid at 11:44 PM, November 8th (Wednesday)]

I've only got hugs to offer CECS, there's no easy way to resolve the feelings you're experiencing. Just keep breathing and take it one minute at a time...

It's not easy, but pain leads to growth. You've learned the 'hard' way that the 'easy' way is usually the 'wrong' way.

The good news: pain doesn't last forever and that this, too, shall past, hopefully for both of you.

Time, as a healer, has a poor bedside manner. Our collective construct for measuring time can serve as a backhanded reminder of events better left to the dustbin of history. To the even remotely detail oriented or OCD, certain dates are burned into existence as much so as a physical location. The obvious nature concerning an arbitrary number on a chronological page is that it's not easy to get around. One does have some degree of difficulty in avoidance with it, unlike physical locations.

It won't be all "the" dates. There will be stunning omissions of triggers, and some seemingly innocuous recocllective occurrences that will have your BH floored.

As others have stated or insinuated, embrace these feelings. Without them, time wounds all heals.

For both you and your BH, this too shall pass. Wish the best for both of y'all

CSCE - I truly am sorry you are here. It's a true representation of the destruction betrayal causes to everyone. Eventually this will make everyone stronger but when mired in the muck, it just feels awful.

You and your BS will get to a point of acceptance where you control the antiversaries rather than the antiversaries controlling you. Many years ago my beloved grandmother died on my first born's birthday. I thought at the time that her birthday would be tainted forever. Actually that never happened. We love her birthday and think of my grandmother often but the two events on that same day never rear their heads together.

I'm starting to feel the same way about the A and my ability to handle specific dates (1 year annvy of d-day around the corner for me). So while you feel badly now, and it is important to feel that way so you can process, you will in time be able to grow so tremendously from this that the dates will no longer own you and your BS.

The first 6 months are brutal and we are all lucky to get through them intact. Let the feelings flow - don't resist otherwise they just come back until you let yourself process everything. Sending you and your BS strength.

So sorry you're feeling so low, CSCE.

I am the BS, so I never cheated on my H. However, I have definitely done things that I wholeheartedly, down to my BONES regret - we all have. Every single human being on earth has those moments where they just think, why did I act like that? Why did I DO that, it was so stupid! I wish I could turn back time and change things.

So on that level, there isn't a huge red line between BS and WS, and I empathize with you and feel for you.

Your BS is struggling - take your cues from him, try and walk the line between overbearing and distant. It's hard, because the line is in a different place depending on the person, but you love him and he needs to feel that on some level. Take courage in the fact that in spite of the sh*tstorm you have brought down on him, you and your marriage, you still probably know him better than anybody in the world.

If you weren't the cause of his grief, how would you be helping him? Once you examine that, THEN add in the complication of the affair and how it modifies your response to his pain - but maybe try and start from scratch. You've been with this man for a long time - based on ALL of the knowledge you've gleaned from those years...what do you think he needs and wants from you right now?

The worst that can happen is you make a mistake, cross some boundary. But, at least you tried, and that shows you care.

I don't know if this is good advice, but I'm just trying to put myself in your H's shoes and think about how I would want MY H to think and act.

Please take care of yourself, and good luck.

Thanks, all - Just being heard makes such a difference.

I'll update soon.

Despite being a first BH then a WH, i empathize with betrayed more than ww usually, perhaps because i don’t feel that my subsequent encounters to her affair were betrayals, they were just openly discussed results of what i viewed as her termination of our marital contract.. no secrets on my side. But you are a rare example of someone who i can clearly see is trying to make monumental changes, is remorseful and wants nothing more than to make things right, and seeks guidance here for understanding of the viewpoint that you as the betrayer do not have, but betrayers do...

I along with most here i believe, want to help you do the best you can to recover the ashes of your marriage and win your husband back, and in order to do so, you have to humbly accept some truths that you may not want to, may disagree with, or may wish to question, but are pivotal to any chance of your H moving to th path of forgiveness.. as xh700 and other have mentioned; sex isn’t just Big for your husband. It is THE biggest issue. We promise. As a man the utter emasculation and feeling of “losing” to another man can make us actually insane... the deep drive to be the winner can and will permeate his mind, and will be the impetus for his actions. When he is comfortable with feeling that in this whole shit storm his self worth and number one status are secure, you will have the real chance. I’m sure he wants the OM to suffer, all betrayeds do. I’m sure he scrapes his brain trying to find things that he is worth more to you than OM, it’s hard. I’m 100% sure that the sexual aspect is the biggest hurdle. It’s like he waited and paid a lot of money time, and commitment to trying to ride one ride at a theme park that was always closed to him, but some douchebag just hops the fence for free, and gets to ride every ride he wants as many times as he wants while all your husband can do is wait and watch in jealousy... what i can suggest you do is for your husbands sake regarding the sex..fake it till you make it... when he is ready, show him how much he is worth to you... treat him like the king he wishes he was... don’t deny him anything or his fantasies he may want...don’t reserve things for AP that you refuse bh. Even if you don’t feel it yet, become an open book emotionally and sexually to your H. Hell if you don’t feel like like it, do what we all do in marriage and make a small sacrifice, put a smile on and know you are giving love to your spouse, we all do things we don’t want to do at times for the people we love, but we do them because we understand the importance to our spouses.

I understand you crave intimacy, and i guarantee he does too, he just doesn’t know how to ask for i from ya without feeling like a pity case, or a chump. He doesn’t want to have to fight for it, and right now doesn’t want to have to do a damn thing to get it, because he figures someone else got so mb more than he did with no investment, why shouldn’t he? Look I know what I’m saying sucks to hear, but it’s not meant to hurt you, just to clearly lay out the facts about a betrayed mans mind and how it works. When hes ready for sex, you need to blow his mind, give him a level of intimacy lust, and adoration that you couldn’t possibly have given to OM. You need to make your husband beleive that he is still the special one somehow, and sex is the language you can communicate to him with. I understand you are working though your issues with sex and i applaud your cogniscense of them and working to fix them, but don’t punish your H further by trying to fix them... don’t deny him anything because you think they are shameful or below you now. His sense of love for you will come back, even if he is angry still, if he feels like he is deepest desire in your world..that the OM was a chump and didn’t get 1/10th of what he does emotionally and sexually. If you fail in this regard because you disagree with it out of principle, or your not comfortable with it, I know what the guaranteed outcome will be. Please for your sake, take my advice. Prove to this man his worth to you, and he may just believe you.. give him any reason to doubt it, even if it’s out of principle for you, and he will go and find it elsewhere in the long run. No one deserves to feel like second choice, trust me and every betrayed here, we know. I hope you can look through any perception of my tone in this post you might perceive as male bias, and understand that this is just how it is, and that I am genuinely trying to tell you what to do if you want any chance of winning him back.

Wishing you well