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I don't agree with those therapists at all.

The OBS deserves to know the truth. It's her life. If she doesn't believe you then that's besides the point. You will have done the right thing.

I hope you will call her today. I know it's hard in the state of mind you're in. I get it. Sending you strength brother.

I am so sorry. Believe me, we all get the pain you're in because we've been there. But here's the situation according to your previous posts...

Your wife has told you she doesn't love you anymore and has moved out of the home. She's in more or less constant contact with an OM that you suspect she's having an affair with.

If you feel like you need absolute proof, you wouldn't be the first to feel that way. Put a PI on her and get your proof.

Therapists are going to recommend the least aggressive course. That's not unusual. It pisses the WS off mightily when their affair is exposed. More often than not, the MM will dump the OW in order to salvage his home sitch. That's not a given outcome though, hence the caution from the therapists.

So... you can hang around waiting for her affair to either pan out or fizzle, wait for the divorce papers to come. OR... you can get the proof you need, file first, and let her play catch-up if she's game for R on YOUR terms.

As always, it's ultimately your call.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 6:49 PM, May 3rd (Wednesday)]

Horrible, negligent therapists are the worst

These therapists are dead wrong. It's a safe bet they have very little experience dealing with infidelity. Therapists that are experts on infidelity would not have told you this.

No soliciting.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:01 AM, May 2nd (Tuesday)]

they both said that this might back fire or be the straw that breaks the camels back

Interim, that's total horse shit right up there. Sounds like your counselors are more interested in generating billable hours while being entertained with your personal drama. What you don't realize is that the marriage as you knew it is already over. Your WW nuked it. She's just doing all she can to spin the facts, don the infidelity radiation suit and crawl out of the crater unscathed as much as possible. She doesn't want to be the bad person so she's constantly deyi g an affair while trying to figure out how spin it so that everyone buys her rewrite of yoir marriage and the temporary vacation from being married to you.

I was the OBS in my situation. The OMs wife came to me with evidence. Yes, I was upset at first and didn't believe but it my first reaction was denial. I kept looking at the evidence and it matched with my WWs call/text logs and corraberated what the OMs wife claimed of at least a known EA. Later, she got her husband to admit the PA. My WW is now my XW and she still to this day denies an affair. My XW ran the same exact sequence yours did, the ILYBINILWY speech, followed by moving out of the house, then telling me "I don't know" when asked about divorce. Soon as she found out I talked to attorneys, she filed to get ahead of me from filing first. Don't make the same mistake as me.

My advice is to go ahead and get that attorney consult ASAP to know your rights as a father. What is the best and worst case scenario should it go to divorce. Does your WW initial abandonment make an impact on custody decisions in you jurisdiction? How long is the typical divorce process? What kind of temporary orders can I file know in the best interest of me and my kids?

Here's the thing, Your WW wants you on the backburner while she figures out if her boss can leave his wife and then replace you as her husband and as your kids new dad. Yet, she fears losing access to the kids if a divorce is filed. That sounds like a big pressure point for her you can take advantage of for leverage. Divorce doesn't happen over night. Filing would slap some reality into her. Exposing the affair to the OBS will make the OM deal with a crisis at his own home and he will very likely throw your WW under the bus mostly because he doesn't want to get divorced and doesn't want to lose his job, which then slaps more reality into your WW.

Then the question will be if your WW does want to get back into the marriage is she doing so for the right reasons. Do you really want her back after she has exposed a very ugly side of herself to you and the kids?

Don't be so quick to reconcile. There's much to do, observe and learn before that can be a reality. In the mean time, act for you and your kids best interest.

[This message edited by Jduff at 12:23 PM, May 2nd (Tuesday)]

I had some interesting conversations today with two counselors ... I went in pretty gung ho about calling the other spouse today, but after talking to the two professionals, they both said that this might back fire or be the straw that breaks the camels back. Because I don't have extensive detail on the affair, again, I have only seen a text and have call logs, that this may cause the other spouse to really question my motive and evidence. They also said, that if what I was saying is true, that there was some controlling and belittling issues in my marriage, but calling the other spouse may in fact play into my wife's mind that I am at it again. Trying to control the situation, and will further solidify her reason for leaving in the or our marital issues in the first place ... What do you guys think? With my limited info on the affair, do I contact the other spouse anyway? Will she even believe me.

IR, I've read dozens of threads like yours on many websites like this, in which the question comes up, will exposing to the OMW harm the chances for R? In quite a few that I've read, the BH has been advised by his IC or attorney not to expose for the reasons you were given. But what I've seen in virtually if not every case in which the BH went ahead and exposed is that, after an initial outburst from the WW, in which she often claimed that exposure ended any chance of R, things return to "normal," i.e., the BH and the WW continue to spar over the affair and the exposure is never mentioned again. On a positive note, in a significant number of those threads, the exposure helped to end the A and seemed at least partly instrumental in getting the WW to want to R.

Your case is a little different than most in that you don't have proof of infidelity. Therefore, if you do decide to speak to the OMW (and I would recommend that you do) you should be up front about that, tell her what you know and say that you are contacting her to get her help in determining if there is anything inappropriate going on between your W and her H.

If you do that, I don't think it likely that the OMW will take offense at your contacting her even if she can't or won't help you get to the bottom of what is going on. As for your W, even though she won't like it, it hardly seems that your speaking to the OMW could make your situation much worse than it is already.

Is there a way to give my wife the ultimatum about breaking off the affair? How will I know that she does if we are separated and she is unwilling to work with me on the marriage or go to counseling.

Since your apparently bound and determined to R and unwilling to consider D, you are in no position to give her any kind of ultimatum ("honey, if you don't stop cheating immediately, I'm not going to file for D"). And you quite rightly perceive that you are in no position to know if she's stopped having sex with him (assuming she is) if she promises she has. More importantly, since he is her boss, any inappropriate relationship that exists between them won't really have ended until they no longer work together.

Also, as it relates to 180. She comes to the house in the morning to help with kids some days, and she also helps with kids at night on a couple of days a week to put them to bed. Is that making it too easy for her. I am not engaging with her, but with the kids, I think she should have the right to stay in their lives. That's bc we told the kids she is just helping out her mom, and will be here to help them with homework, sleep and some mornings. How should I handle the separation and 180 if she is coming and going around our house a lot?

You made a big mistake lying to your kids about the reason their mom moved out, and the sooner you tell them the truth, the better. As it is, your children are going to be very upset that you lied to them, and the longer this goes on the more upset and distrustful they will become. If you don't tell them the truth, they will eventually learn it anyway.

So I just called the other spouse, and she was putting it all together as well. She is devastated, but figured something was up b/c he moved out a week ago.

So it doesnt sount like her finding out is going to blow up their relationship. Should I go to the work place now and blow it up there? B/C he is her boss. This should shake them up some more.

My wife and the OM found out I contacted the other spouse and my wife has been texting me non stop. To not talk to her, and to not ruin their relationship. She said lets handle this on our own. They have been monitoring our phones.

What should I tell my wife now? She keeps asking me what do I want? Said we have an emotional connection issue, and thats why this happened.

Emotional connection blah blah blah. She is trying to trick you into focusing on the wrong thing. You can deal with "emotional connections" etc AFTER the dust has settled. Also during her affair she was probably emotionally unavailable (elsewhere). If anyone needs to work on emotional connection right now it is her. Your priorities lie elsewhere at this moment.

[This message edited by Smillie at 2:43 PM, May 3rd (Wednesday)]

Of course you should expose it to the work place. It's almost impossible for affairs to occur between co-workers, especially between bosses/subordinates, without a misappropriation of company resources going on. Affairs require a shroud of secrecy to thrive. Drag them into the light of day, and like vampires, they die.

[This message edited by CincyKid at 2:36 PM, May 3rd (Wednesday)]

You can tell her that she should have been honest from the start and not deceitful, disrespectful and dishonest.

Tell her that you are not prepared to stay in Infidelity and are not going to be lied to while still married to you.

Tell her that even if she wants to leave she needs to stop cheating with this scumb@g (and destroying the OMW and his children's lives too) and sort things out first before moving on. Emphasise that your kids are never to be around the POSOM.

Once she stops cheating and is open and transparent then the two of you can decide what to do next. Until then you are going to do your best to get yourself out of infidelity and part of this is to blow up the affair as best you can.

You're at no obligation to answer your WW's questions right now. She has evaded yours for quite some time now. I think I'd let her calls go to voice mail for a little while and let her stew.

When you do end up speaking with her though, I would ask for the entire truth and if she isn't willing to give it, I'd disengage from the conversation until she's willing to tell you everything.

I don't think I'd expose at work yet though. If it comes to D, your settlement will be better if your WW still has a job.

She is devastated, but figured something was up b/c he moved out a week ago.

Just wanted to add that I'm sorry to hear that.

It's one of the crappiest tactics adulterers engage in... walking out on their spouses and then acting like they got together afterward in the hopes no one finds out they were cowardly cheaters. There are still some states left where adultery makes a difference at settlement. So sometimes it's not only just an avoidance of social consequences but also an attempt to get a better monetary outcome. :(

I think you should file for divorce and have her served papers.

Doesn't mean 100% that you'll end up D, but shows you are serious about things and if she doesn't want to be with you then you are going to move on with your life and find happiness.

You both can do IC while in this process and maybe also eventually find your way to R. But she is gaslighting you and also still in A and you need to move yourself out of that. You deserve better.

If you still have questions ask your lawyer to help you get a good PI to connect the final dots.

OP,

You need to face the hard truth of the matter.

Your wife is having an exit affair with her boss; and that's why she has checked out of the marriage. They have been having sex for weeks or months.

She's left the house so she can facilitate that A without your interference and I'm quite sure she thinks that she can rely on you as a plan B if it doesn't work out. Thus she doesn't want a divorce at the moment.

She's abandoning her husband and children yet thinks she has a say in the decision to divorce? Could she be more arrogant? The time for playing nice is over. You make the decision about D, not her.

Here's what I advice you to do:

See an attorney ASAP and plan your exit strategy. Start the divorce process immediately. Separate your finances. Do a hard 180. Don't talk to her at all except about the children.

If you want to get a smoking gun, fine, hire a PI. But if you live in a no fault state the evidence won't matter in regards to the D.

Expose her to her family, your family and close friends.

One thing you want to keep in your back pocket, is exposing her at work. Talk to your lawyer about using that as leverage to get the best settlement possible. It's wise for you at the moment, not to get her fired. But that could change.

If by some chance she eventually wants to come back to you; don't agree to anything. Don't even consider R without posting here again.

Many of us here know what a remorseful spouse looks like and I'm afraid she's going to be hard pressed to pull that one off.

Good luck.

[This message edited by badmemory at 3:42 PM, May 3rd (Wednesday)]

Should I go to the work place now and blow it up there? B/C he is her boss. This should shake them up some more.

As ChamomileTea pointed out, the risk is that exposing them in the workplace may cost her job. If you knew you wanted a D, I would advise against it for the reason given by ChamomileTea. If, instead, you want to R, or if you're not sure what you want to do, I would demand that she end the A and find a new job quickly and, if she refuses or fails to do do, only then expose to her employer.

My wife and the OM found out I contacted the other spouse and my wife has been texting me non stop. To not talk to her, and to not ruin their relationship. She said lets handle this on our own. They have been monitoring our phones.

She's doing what most WW's do, she's trying to protect her AP, whom she values over you. Unless and until this changes, you have no hope of a successful R.

What should I tell my wife now? She keeps asking me what do I want? Said we have an emotional connection issue, and thats why this happened.

You don't have to tell her anything just yet. When you're ready, what you should tell her is that if she doesn't end the A immediately, give you full access to her phone and do everything else you ask to ensure that the A has ended, and get IC to figure out why she cheated, you're going to file for D.

Unfortunately, if you're like most BHs, you'll be afraid to do this and, as a result, R will be delayed until you do or things will get so out of control that the M will become irredeemable.

Those who are strong and act usually end up in a better place than those who are weak and hestitate.

You don't need to rationalize ethical decisions that you made. Ignore her. She doesn't deserve an answer.

You need to stay on your lawyer and communicate through him/her.

The lawyer can send a cease/desist to her employer if that's the route you want to take. They WILL listen.

You should chat with the other spouse more and determine what she is going to do.

Said we have an emotional connection issue, and thats why this happened.

NO...that's just some textbook cheater-speak. This happened because she made a unilateral choice...period. So did her AP boss. You have two despicably selfish people who literally walked out on their families. Did either you or OBS get a vote in this happening? NOPE

I know you covet R...no one wants to "lose their family" but please re-read badmemory's post a few times...it's 100% spot on. Don't be plan B...stand up for yourself. This woman literally left you & the kids and moved in w/ her AP. And now she's dogging you about ruining THEIR relationship !!!!!!

How much more disrespectful can she be? Personally I think you and OBS should double-team them w/ D papers and go scorched earth. Forget about seeking any more proof...that call w/ OBS was all the proof you needed.

Yes, I got all the proof I needed from the call.

The fact that she brought our kids over and they met this POS is really irking me. I dont want them around this POS.

Also, she is now trying to flip it on me. Like I'm ruining another marriage. You did,you cheated on me with this other person.

She is pressing me to talk. I'm not going to entertain that right now, and will be going out this entire weekend.

What is the value of letting all of friends and family know. Is that to embarrass them, or will that force them to get out of the A. I was able to put together a good timeline based on a quick call, and it all make sense. My WW is now telling me that I cant control my anger and I need to relax. She doesnt want me to blow it up. Said if I do, it will be bad and she'll lose trust in me. HAHAHAHA. Sorry babe, I was just awoken.

She is so trying to protect lover boy right now.

I swear... my head is about to explode all over your thread. I almost can't even believe the unmitigated gall of this woman! What the hell does the OM care about kids??? He's got four of his own, the youngest just six months old... that he just WALKED OUT ON.

That's your WW's "prize". That's the guy she left her own family for.

Tell whoever you want. You're building YOUR support network. It's not about making her come back to the marriage though. That's not something you can control.

Just make sure that what you say are the facts as you know them and try not to include any supposition. And remember to choose wisely who you share with because you can't un-tell. For example, I shared with my siblings but not my mother. I just didn't want those endless discussions with all the drama, and also I didn't know whether it would be R or D at the time.

Right now, your WW is going to be all about manipulating the outcome. It's wise to play your cards close to your vest, so it's good you have weekend plans.

If we're reading this right, both of them were

trying to leave without getting caught and then act like they got together afterward. Now the OM has been exposed as an adulterer and he's going to be in damage control. It remains to be seen whether he'll go home to his BW or not.