SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Warning, I have no sympathy for cheaters so if this post is a bit too harsh on your wife then I apologize in advance.

10 months......wow. You have got to be gutted. Take care of you. Eat a little. Stay away from alcohol. Try to get some sleep.

Now let's breakdown some of her statements.

My wife said that was a bunch of bullshit. She said that he made the first move.

Who gives a shit if he made the first move...SHE responded. If she had had an ounce of decency she would have rebuked him. But decency is not a quality cheaters have.

She said she never intended to leave me

Of course not. She wanted you to pay the bills and him to fuck her. She had a win win going on in her mind. No cheater is going to stop the orgasm train when it's being sponsored.

She also never intended to stop having sex with him either. But her getting pregnant threw a wrench in the good times machine. If she had been able to confirm the baby was yours without you knowing, she could have kept sleeping with him during her pregnancy. More than a few WW on this board have done that. Her story of continuing the suck/f**k routine only because he threatened to expose her sounds like grade A ass-covering. She will not tell you the truth, that she did it because she liked it, all of it. Not just the "attention". She knows it will be much harder to keep you around if you knew what she really thought and felt.

She also said the other man said he was on a break, and she didn't know that he was living with this girl

.

Again, what difference does this make? It does not matter if he had a SO. SHE HAD A HUSBAND! SHE HAS KIDS! Is she saying she is a whore with standards? She would screw other men, but not if they were in a relationship? How noble of her.

My wife said she is going to support me on my decision.

What choice does she have?

She is pissed that she was played as a fool.

So if he was really into her that would have justified her affiar? If he looked and talked like George Cloony, and meant everything he said, then it's was all worth it?

And I'm pissed that my wife is a cheater and that piece of shit knew we were married and still fucked my wife.

The world is full of POS guys like him. But remember, he was not at the altar with you pledging vows. It's on her to keep her panties up and her knees together.

Ok so what now? Well The consider R first crowd will be here soon with the standard advice. It will start with recommending you have your wife read How to Help Your Spouse Heal...

You know what? Stayedforthekids explains the process better than I can. He has a keen mind and is further down the road. So here is his description.......and you might want to look up his profile and read his posts.

books like How to Help Your Spouse Heal lay out a script for remorse. A cheater that's not a complete fucking idiot and doesn't want divorce, for whatever reason, can simply follow the guidelines laid out for them and they're good to go. Toss in some IC, some self introspection, and delve into your "whys" and suddenly you transform from cheating POS to a broken individual with wayward thinking. Toss in some hoovering and you're all set to keep your BS in the relationship. In fact, most BSes will lap that shit up. Hell I did/do, it feels a helluva lot better than the rejection and pain of being betrayed. This process works even better if the BS can recognize some marital wrongdoing they've done prior to the A. It lets them indirectly assess some of the blame for setting the stage for the A and gives them some sense of control over the situation. A BS then can start to feel some sort of empathy for the cheater. Sigh, look at all they're doing to keep me, they must lurve me too. So the BS fixes their issues, WS fixes their issues, and they both work on the M. That's pretty much the recipe for R from what I've gathered in my stint here at SI and in counselling.

The problem is it doesn't completely address all of the issues for me. The lack of concern for our children. Fuck me over if you want, but the kids... The lack of concern for my health. Finances, retirement issues, your reputation, the overall sleaziness of the A. The suspension of any ethics and morals you had for months. The ability to deceive to the extent needed to have an A for months. The whole notion that fucking this person is worth screwing up your life, my life and the lives of our children. I don't really give a fuck about remorse, regret, guilt, shame, or any of that other shit. I don't see how that "fixes" anything either, no matter how well a WS follows the R recipe. R is really all just mental gymnastics

[This message edited by ramius at 2:23 AM, April 17th (Monday)]

ramius brings up a great point. This AP turned out to be a POS so of course your WW is angry and now "all in" with saving the marriage. With all the things she's said, however, what if AP wasn't a POS? What if he had been a great guy that wanted to run off with her and treat her like a queen? I would bet she'd be long gone already without a second thought toward you or the family she built with you. It's really easy for a WS to go "all in" with saving the marriage when they're plan A blew up in their face. They're doing self-preservation and they're master manipulators. If she was screwing around for 10 months and you didn't know then you know for a fact she's a master liar and manipulator. She lies and manipulates to get what she wants. Right now, and this particular moment, she wants the marriage because she weighed it out and that's the thing that is best for her at this moment. Who knows what the next moment will bring. Maybe another OM? Maybe the next one isn't a POS and they run off? Who knows but I don't think she's being honest.

I agree with CincyKid. If this OM was really into your wife, she would be with him right now. It's only that he's a typical OM that she's now having to eat crow and suck up to you.

Many WW when caught say they didn't plan on leaving, but my reading of 100s of their threads on LS tells me that most would blow up their families in a NY minute if OM was willing to run off with them. Some would even be willing to abandon their kids for OM.

It's the OM knowing that leaving his loyal wife and his kids to be with an adulterous woman with another man's kids is a very bad bet.

It sounds like some of the texts that OBS sent confirmed that your WW is still lying about things. OM is probably doing the same thing to some degree.

Yea, he pursued her with the first text/call but she is married with two kids...She doesn't shut that down but gives him a BJ on their first date!

Your WW story has always sounded sketchy to me and it seems more so now.

Checked out of the marriage - Jan2015

Nov - Said she didn't want to be married to you

June 2016 - Started Affair

then, she is being blackmailed and wants to end it so bad that ... she "forgets" to take her pill on a reg basis?????

He basically had work in her area a few times a month and she was willing to meet up for sex when he was in town. It certainly sounds like "Friends with Benefits"...to him.

The fact that she is upset the guy had a live in gf, and that she didn't believe it was a FWB relationship makes me think she thought they could "run off" together.

I guess what I'm saying is that OM is lying (some) to save his ass and your WW is lying (some) to save hers.

Did the email/text show anything "blackmail" or her/him writing about a more long term relationship?

Normally, I'm all for exposing the OM to work and making him deal with it. In your case I feel it will be used a a form of rug sweeping. Taking the blame away from WW and putting it all on OM. He wanted cheap sex but she wanted a relationship. Going after him will validate your WW (How dare he lie to me!), keep him in your life (WW:show him not to mess with me) and allow your WW to rugsweep what she did. (He seduced ME, he lied to ME, he called ME first, he blackmailed ME....

Depending on what he does for a living I'm not sure how much his work can/will do about it.

Listen, I know you want to try to save the marriage for your kids. You daughter's medical needs and your wife pregnant does make it hard to just walk away. I'm glad she is working full-time. If you are going to stay with her (for the above reasons) you need to trust that she isn't going to cheat again. From what you have posted she really seemed to be looking for a way out of the marriage, with no regard for you or the kids.

I'm glad she is working full-time. What else is she doing to help you trust her?

I had checked over the messages again since she hadn't deleted any of them. Up into November 2016, there were some serious conversations. The other man was saying things like: "I can't wait to be with you on (insert date here), "I never met a woman I care about as much as you), "I can make you happy if, surprised87 can't." (This one really really makes me mad. Every time I read it, or hear it, or have to write it, it makes me tear up in rage) So those are all indications that a) he was more into her than he leads on b) or he was just trying hard to keep her on the sidelines. But around November 2016, the love dove messages from my wife lessened. She only messaged him short answers, that seemed forced. On December 17th, 2016 she wrote that things were getting too serious and that they needed to stop. February 8th she said they needed to meet to talk and on March 4 she texted him saying she had an appointment. That is the same day the ultrasound is dated for. After that a bunch of short, curt messages. I originally thought she might have been suspicious I knew, but it is entirely possible that he was threatening her. I see no messages that indicate this. I only have the one message where she shows any indication of wanting to stop.

I know lots have been telling me to have her write out a detailed timeline. I have been holding back because I was numb and didn't want to think about it. I have been ignoring her 85% of the day, and the only time we talk is when we're around the kids acting as normal as we can. We have a few talks about what she did. Besides that, I try to keep my mind off of things. But I just want the whole picture.

I don't know if I want her, but right now I still love her and it's so hard to ignore that feeling. I know she isn't showing love toward me, but the hormones are strong.

[This message edited by Surprised87 at 10:40 AM, April 17th (Monday)]

Reread Ramius' post and reread his exerpt from Stayedforthekids.

This is the shit that you must agonizingly run through your mind for the next 40 years or so, until you are dead. Do you really want this pain? It sounds like you are trying to save something that isn't there anymore. I can't imagine bringing another kid into this shitshow.

Surprised87, blackmail is a common lie around here. In the few instances it was true, there was evidence to back it up. OM never expected anyone to read those emails. There would be no reason for him to avoid making threats over email if it were true. The curt responses by your WW probably were due to other reasons. Trouble in paradise, her questioning his commitment, there can be many but there is zero evidence supporting blackmail.

She should be doing everything in her power to show you she wants the M with you to work...what is she doing?

Anything?

It just sucks feeling so rejected. I hate that I love her so much and that I want to believe her. I want to take some of the guilt, some of the responsibility off her shoulder. I have so much anger toward that other man. I know he had no obligation to marriage, but he was still fucking my wife. He was still willingly slept with a married woman. I can't help but want to ruin him. My wife gets to deal with my indifference and the loss of our marriage hanging over her head, but that piece of shit gets to run away, and deal with his girlfriend or ex or whatever. It isn't enough for me.

I have to deal with a crying daughter who doesn't want her family to break up. (I've talken to her therapists and they don't think its in her best interest to tell her even in child friendly way what her mother had done) I got a three-year-old who only senses something is up but is in total obliviation that her family as she knows it risks blowing up. And then finally this unborn baby who was conceived under the worse of times. She will be entering this world into a web of lies. I have so much anger, so much sorrow.

My wife hasn't tried to delete the evidence, went no contact. I have her recorded saying a few times since I found out that she was glad the truth was out, that she was sorry for what she did, that she doesn't want to lose me and that she deserves whatever I dish her way. She accepted the full-time job and admitted that she didn't mean it when she said I was a bad husband.

On the same token, her lies and stories are slowly spilling out. She looks sad all the time, and she is showing me a lot of affection. I just don't know if he intentions are genuine or if she is just secretly planning her next move. She tells me every day she is sorry, I come home from work, the store, wherever and she is crying. She had said a few times that she is so scared I'm going to leave her.

I'm supposed to be working, and I can't even do fucking that. I'm firmly on the fence. I don't know what I want. I guess I'm just watching my wife's actions. Maybe I'm just waiting until I have a clear head so I can make a clear decision.

[This message edited by Surprised87 at 11:05 AM, April 17th (Monday)]

I don't know if I want her, but right now I still love her and it's so hard to ignore that feeling. I know she isn't showing love toward me, but the hormones are strong.

Unfortunately the path you are on is well-trodden. Many people have been there before.

This is why the 180 was invented. It's not to punish anyway, it's to teach you to detach so that you can make the right decision for you.

suprised87-

I have listed out some questions that I think might you you figure out your next steps. Take what you need and leave the rest.

What has she done to show that she truly wants to be with you and only you without continuing to use you and your resources ?

How can she show you that you are not some back up plan and she will keep looking in the future ?

Is she still talking about terminating the pregnancy even though she knows it is yours ?

The W that cheated on you and almost had another man's child is still there. She has not changed. What is her plan to do so ?

Is she capable of change ? Not everyone can do that.

Ask yourself. Why would you WANT to stay M to her ?

I get there are kids, finances and lifestyle situations in place.

Did your W engage in an A because she knew you were "trapped," meaning she thought you wouldn't leave her even if she treated you like garbage ?

She treated you as a baby sitter, wallet and domestic resource. Even OM was a "resource," to get her what she wanted.

What is she doing to change from a self centered person that only does what she wants, even if it hurts others ?

Lot of questions to mull over. Start making a plan that keeps options available. Act. You will be saner having a direction to move towards. Even if you don't get to conclusion, it still helps keep your mind focused.

Surprised87,

You may not believe it now but your doing great ! You will be on the roller coaster ride from hell for awhile longer. You and your family have been hit with heavy trauma and now is the time to start thinking about yourself , see your doctor and try some mild sleep aids or anti anxiety meds for the short term .

Getting in a better frame of mind will help put things back in order.. This is your wife's problem to fix, she needs to be moving mountains like they're pebbles..

Focus on you and your kids , with time everything will become more manageable .. Let your Boss know what is going on at home , he may be wondering why your a bit off your game.

Hang in there!

CDB

When you are ready I would definitely recommend you have her take a polygraph. Make sure one of the questions relates to whether she has cheated at any other times during your relationship with her.

I got burned big time by convincing myself to believe my fWH. I can tell you personally that the coverup can be worse to deal with than the "original crime". An early poly with effective questions can help reduce the cover up and further gaslighting and manipulation.

Also having her write a detailed timeline will be good to do even if you look at it later. Otherwise she may start "forgetting" as time goes by.

I agree with others that they are both lying to some extent to paint themselves in the best light possible and for their own gain in their real relationships. That's very typical.

I'm glad you have some of their texts to help you try to put this all in context.

Very sorry for your pain.

[This message edited by whattheh at 11:24 AM, April 17th (Monday)]

What has she done to show that she truly wants to be with you and only you without continuing to use you and your resources ?

She has went from part time to full time. Besides that nothing really.

How can she show you that you are not some back up plan and she will keep looking in the future ?

I think I need more time. She has went no contact, she has finally seen the other man for who he is. She without knowing I know told people that she doesnt' want to lose her family. That she is sorry for what she did. It's only been 3 weeks until she has finally admitted to the affair, and 6 weeksish since I found out she has been unfaithful.

Is she still talking about terminating the pregnancy even though she knows it is yours ?

There hasn't been any talk. SHe had only said she wanted to terminate if it wasn't mine. The longer that I know the baby is mine I have to admit the more I want her to keep the baby. It be so much easier if she were to get an abortion in the short term. But I know she doesn't want too, and I'm starting to really feel the same. So I won't bring it up and will support her if she changes her mind.

Ask yourself. Why would you WANT to stay M to her ?

The kids are a big one. Another is I do love her and I want to believe she is still a good person under all the betrayal, selfishness and toxic behaviour.

I have spoken ot a lawyer all ready. I know my rights, I know for the most part best case scenerio and worst case scenerio. I had set my wife up with a full time job. I'm going to ask her for a full disclosure. I have started to go over my own communications with my wife, and I want a full timeline so I can compare to see if I can find any contradictions that I can prove.

I'm going to keep my distance with her as I have been doing. Tonight I'm going to get the VAR from her car again and see if anything new comes up.

Just take it day by day until I have enough evidence either way. I expect some trickle truth as they call it here.

Also to add: I had seen the doctor for std's and I am all in the clear. I'm going to go back in 6 weeks to just double check I don't have HIV.

[This message edited by Surprised87 at 11:29 AM, April 17th (Monday)]

Another is I do love her and I want to believe she is still a good person under all the betrayal, selfishness and toxic behavior.

Totally understandable too...I was in the same position.

I made it very plain that as much as I wanted the M, it was up to her to do the work to keep me around.

Our kids are grown, I insisted she leave her position and seek other employment, which she has done, and has gone above and beyond to comply with my boundaries.

She is completely contrite, constantly checking with me for nearly everything...outside of grocery shopping, she seeks my approval for any expenditures, outings, and company that she keeps.

I basically have final say in everything, I am the final authority...and this is mostly her doing, I was not going to chase after her and be a babysitter.

Its up to her to SHOW me in deeds, not words, that she is 100% in the M.

And that, my friend is why I'm still here, because she is proving it (as in an ongoing process) to me every day.

You need to make your WW understand what you need from her for you to stay in the M.

[This message edited by OrdinaryDude at 11:52 AM, April 17th (Monday)]

You said you cannot focus well on your job - that is self defeating. Your only satisfaction now is doing your job well. The others (family affairs) as you say hang in the balance although you have to do them and you feel ambiguity.

Past is done. Do not relive there you cannot do anything about it. Thinking about it drag you down.

about POS, forget about him. If something happens to come in your way let him have it. It is negative energy.

You know enough about what happen. Any more about the affair does not help you.

Treat wife cordially for the sake of the unborn. being civil with her does not make any thing different.

Only thing you can control is what happen in the future. If your wife really in to it you can R. even if you want to D it is at least a year away under current conditions. So try to develop a cordial setting in the home and forget about what happened in the past. Again your only clear self gain at the moment is the job. Compartmentalize your feelings.

"He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their anger." (ie negative energy). This is from Dhammapada

[This message edited by goalong at 1:26 PM, April 17th (Monday)]

Goalong...if it were only that simple. Situations as they are so often described here create unbearable emotions, pain and sorrow.

Yes very negative feelings, and emotions..the human experience is unique in the animal world. It takes many years to process sometimes.

You seem to be suggesting not dealing with those 'negative emotions at this moment..compartmentalize...do not address.

Well I did exactly that in 1994..WW made it a condition of R..no explination or questioning of her A...i accepted those terms.

Now 23 years later..and seriously batteling PTSD...is the result of NOT dealing with the grief at the appropriate time in 1994.

Now is the time for 87 to begin processing his pain, anger, frustration, agonizing as it maybe...it is all a fact of the circumstances..it simply can NOT be forgotten and supressed...

On the same token, her lies and stories are slowly spilling out. She looks sad all the time, and she is showing me a lot of affection. I just don't know if he intentions are genuine or if she is just secretly planning her next move. She tells me every day she is sorry, I come home from work, the store, wherever and she is crying. She had said a few times that she is so scared I'm going to leave her.

Of course she is sad, look what she did...not sure she hit bottom yet, but maybe getting close.

Seems like she is pretty much stunned, not the happy go lucky gal from 6 months ago when she had a deceived happy husband and a horny OM who both wanted to fuck her. Her cup runneth over as they say.

Since the A would still be going on if she was not pregnant, at this point I think she has no plan whatsoever, let alone a secret one. Maybe in six or nine months she will have gotten herself together enough to think up a plan but now she is in extreme CYA mode.

Because of the 1000s of decisions she made to cheat now her marriage in very, very critical condition, you may decide in a year she is not worth staying married to and take the kids 50% of the time, the OM revealed she just an easy sidepiece when he threw under the bus and now she has to work all day long...annnnd she is pregnant.

I;d guess that right now she is looking to you for guidance and leadership out of the mess she made. And this is why I would not focus on the OM right now, it is a distraction to the real work that you and she must do to stay to R.

You hold no sway over him, he made no vows, he just found a gullible married woman who blew him the first time they met, then fucked him everytime after that. He hit paydirt in his mind.

Deal with the things that you can now, you-her-the kids-baby- marriage) Put out the fire in your own house before burning down his.

I think you are on the right track, but keep the goals in focus.

so why does she get a free ride, Surprised ?

Yes, she now knows the other man is a POS but what if he decided to leave his wife for her and your wife stayed locked with him, would she be better or worse ?

She brought this filth into your life. The only way to rid it is to rid yourself of her. You can't do it but please stop allowing her to go consequence free.

In the end, your life, your decision, your pain. I think it's funny hoe he threw her under the bus. Problem is that you crawl under that same bus with her voluntarily

I consider that your wife made the first move. Her friend gave other man your wife's number, and the friend told him, "I told her I was sending you her number and she's excited to hear from you." Your wife's friend didn't send that number if your wife hadn't already expressed serious interest. So don't fool yourself, your wife initiated.

Also, it seems she is rewriting history of "I never wanted to leave you" - she did consider it seriously, but other man was not ready and your wife finally figured that out.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 2:08 PM, April 17th (Monday)]