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Barry so your wife said this POS guy tried to kiss her when she left work? How did that happen? Did he walk her out to her car? Why did she allow herself to be alone enough where it would be safe to kiss her? Im sure he didnt try to do it there at work in front of other employees.

IS she even allowed to leave the house without me or one of the kids? Like I don't even see any other way.

Do you really want to be in a M where your W is basically kept in home jail, where you monitor her every move & her communications. Where your W has to inform you at all times where she is, who she's with, what time will she be home.

This is what you will have to do for the forseable future & with you working and your WW at home your mind will be blowing up thinking about all the scenarios that could be taking place. All because of the one thing all marriages need to survive is missing from your's - TRUST

Do you think that type of a M will be a benefit to your children as they are nurtured into adulthood and grow up believing this type of a M is the norm.

When you have a unremorseful WS who is in love with their AP the weight of constant monitoring of her actions will break you.

[This message edited by notanotherchance at 12:50 AM, February 9th (Thursday)]

I recommend that you get you "How to Help Your souse heal From Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald and "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass

for your wife to read. She will have the free time.

I would also insist that she get into IC to help her search within herself as to why she allowed herself to go down this path.

Your wife should give you access to all of her gadgets, email and social media accounts. In the beginning, it will really be a trust but verify. I also recommend a VAR in the room that she tends to go off to talk in. Any info you get is for you to verify NC.

As for yourself, get some quality food in you. If you're like most of us, you probably are on the infidelity diet. If you're not able to eat, force down some Ensures or Nutriment. These drinks will provide some badly needed calories and protein. I also recommend that you get into the gym. Heavy lifting will get your T levels up and will fatigue the body to help you get some sleep.

[This message edited by Jsmart at 3:27 AM, February 9th (Thursday)]

Barry you can put security cameras on your home pointing at the exterior doors and driveway.

I hope you have a better day today and that your WW finds her way out of the fog and recommits to the marriage.

Barry, I'm sorry this is happening to you. I'm going through this exact type of scenario as well and have had similar thoughts. FWIW, you are not alone. I too found the hard evidence I needed by placing the VAR in the car.

My hope is that your situation ends better than mine and for now trust your gut and stand up for yourself.

Barry you can put security cameras on your home pointing at the exterior doors and driveway.

Barry, you can do anything you want, whether it's legal or not, that's a different story. If you care about the legality, go to an attorney for your state and your situation.

Barry my family is the most important thing in my life. If there was a fire in my house and I had to stay and die to get the family out I would do it in a heartbeat.

You are very limited on what you can and can't do legally to protect your family.

In the same token I would have absolutly no qualms about using a VAR to find out if there was a scumbag in the works. If I went to jail...so be it. But thats just me. I'm not speaking for anybody else. As long as nobody else physically gets that recording you are fine. Last I heard possession is about 99% of the law. That is for your ears only so you can make an informed decision. Never give up your resources.

Two quick things:

1. We've had this legal/illegal conversation many times here as it pertains to video/VAR. Here's MY bottom-line... when was the last time you heard about someone going to jail for recording his cheating wife? In 99.99% of the cases the information you gain isn't going to be used as part of a divorce settlement - it's just information for you, the betrayed. Again, in my opinion, if you need to "monitor" your wife in any way, shape, or form to settle your fears - just do it.

Of course, this leads directly to #2:

2. Do you really want/need to be monitoring her at all times? The truth is - either she's 100% in or she's not. Period. What so many of us finally recognize is that no matter how much you watch her, video her, record her, hire a PI, etc., if she wants to cheat - she will. In this day and age there are simply too many ways to get around behind someone's back.

So the answer to #1 is that it should be YOUR WIFE who says to YOU... "I'll do anything you want. Put a GPS on my car. Put a key logger on my phone. Hell, I'll wear a police ankle bracelet with a GPS on it (you can buy one of those, you know)."

The point is... COMMUNICATION. You need to let her know exactly what your fears are and how you want her to allay those fears. Tell her that you're worried about what happens when you go to work. Let her know that you expect for her to help you heal by doing everything possible to let you not worry.

For example - we are 5 years out. My wife occasionally has to travel. She VOLUNTARILY facetimes me from her hotel room every night and every morning. Guess what else? She thinks about what I am thinking - so she walks around the room and facetimes the shower, the closet, under the bed. At this point I wind up saying, "Honey, c'mon already." But she is adamant that I have ZERO worries about where she is or who she is with.

THAT is remorse and reconciliation.

Don't expect for that type of action... yet. But begin improving the communication by letting her know what you need. Then you don't have to worry about whether or not a VAR is legal.

Good luck.

[This message edited by LifeisCrazy at 10:49 AM, February 9th (Thursday)]

LIC,

Excellent point and I'm glad to hear your wife is so proactive. This is exactly the type of behavior my wife exhibits as well.

But it is still very early for Barry. It is rare that a WW acts like that so early on, especially while she is still working through her feelings for OM.

Baby steps.

Barry

Once again, I’m going to point you back to my thread about stating your intention and then keeping a course.

Once again, I’m going to tell you that it’s not a path to divorce or a path to reconciliation. It’s a path OUT OF INFIDELITY.

Right now, it sounds like you are walking tentatively along Reconciliation Road towards your destination. Still a long way to go and many twists and turns along the road. You know this road leads out of infidelity but you can’t see the destination yet. You must place some trust on the directions given and look for the landmarks we will tell you about.

MAYBE… Just MAYBE you might encounter a roadblock and must switch to Divorce Drive. That’s OK. If you keep momentum you are heading out of infidelity. It’s the destination that really counts, not the route taken nor the companions that tag along. But then – for the next couple of miles Reconciliation Lane and Divorce Drive are more-or-less parallel…

As is your wife wants to go along. That’s why Reconciliation Road might get you there. All you can do is tell her the destination and give her some guidelines on how to get there. You might mention some milestones (going to MC might be a milestone, reestablishing healthy trust is a milestone extended NC is a milestone) and you might keep some secrets (monitoring her, sleeping with one eye open…). You can let her lead, you can have her follow you. At times, you can push her along, at times you can pull her along. But generally, you both must make the journey on your own free will.

I think it’s inevitable that you feel worried about her. One major part in my tactic is letting the WW know that D is an acceptable solution and that she is perfectly free to choose OM. IF she remains with you then it’s HER choice. It’s also important to let her know that you both deserve honesty. As has been pointed out the situation where she has the marriage and a boyfriend isn’t realistic or sustainable. Therefore, she CAN choose to break NC. She CAN choose to meet with OM. But let her know that you will inevitably know and that knowledge will inevitably lead to you choosing divorce over reconciliation.

I’m not suggesting blind trust but rather a sense of letting go. It’s OK for you to monitor her, to question her and have your doubts. If she must meet “the girls” on a Friday evening all dressed up it’s OK for you to simply assume she’s meeting OM. The impetus to prove her desire to reconcile is totally on her. But if you try to keep 100% tabs on her, monitor her 24/7 and worry every time she has a call… YOU will remain in infidelity…

Finally, Barry – the recording and any future recordings… I feel too much is made of it. What do you need to prove? It’s not as if you can’t divorce her unless you have proof. It’s not as if it becomes less of an affair without her confession. It’s not as if her parents won’t allow you to divorce her without a recorded confession. It won’t affect custody, alimony, child-support, division of assets… The ONLY purpose of the recording is to convince YOU. Do you have doubts she cheated?

The only need for future recordings I see is to convince YOURELF. If you catch her sharing I-love-you with OM over the phone, then being able to prove it won’t matter. All you need is that YOU know. This isn’t some TV show where she gets to deny until you pull out proof to convince a jury. All that’s needed is what YOU believe.

I'm seeing many people say that it is very likely that she'll break no contact with the other man. What will I be able to do that in situation? She's either 100% in the marriage or 100% out and frankly I can't tell which it is. I'm embarrassed, I've been acting like I don't care even though I'm hurting. Will she even respect me if I stay with her after she's having a lustful affair with OM?

Will she even respect me if I stay with her after she's having a lustful affair with OM?

This is where I was and where you need to change your thinking. You shouldn't worry about how she is towards you. She made her choices and feelings when she had the affair. This is where bigger is saying you need to go towards getting out of infidelity. Time to move forward with focusing on you improving your life. Its not easy, trust me I'm right were you are but only now realizing it.

If you idly sit by nothing will change. Its up to you to change.

I'm seeing many people say that it is very likely that she'll break no contact with the other man. What will I be able to do that in situation? She's either 100% in the marriage or 100% out and frankly I can't tell which it is. I'm embarrassed, I've been acting like I don't care even though I'm hurting. Will she even respect me if I stay with her after she's having a lustful affair with OM?

The question should be can you live with yourself for staying with someone that has betrayed you like this.

You can't control her so stop trying and also stop giving her all the control in the relationship. She cheated and by default you should be getting a divorce UNLESS she convinces you otherwise, not the other way around.

You need to stop worrying about the OM (he's nobody, just a guy at the right place at the right time) and hold her accountable for her actions. You need to get angry because your wife just stabbed you in the back and continues to spit in your face. She acts like she does because she thinks she can get away with it (and so far has).

This isn't about her, it's about you and what's best for you and staying with her is not it.

The only way your M can be saved is if you try to divorce her and she moves Heaven and Earth to stop you. Anything short of that would be a false R and more D-days. That means you can't stand around and wait for her to "wake up", you have to take action and show her you have some dignity left.

Read my post Barry and you will have your answer.

YOU are heading out of infidelity. Since she’s on-board for now then she can come along and you take the road called Reconciliation. But if things change you simply switch roads. Both lead out of infidelity.

And yes – chances are something like 8/10 she will have some contact with OM. That’s why you should do two things:

a) Make it clear that this chance of R is a GIFT. It’s based on what you want NOW but you are full of doubt. Ask her to be honest and, if she wants OM, then simply tell you and to go for him. BUT… if she wants you then she needs to realize how thin the thread is and that IF she does something like break NC then it might snap. There is NO guarantee that YOU will give her another chance.

b) Have a known plan in place IF OM contacts her. You cant prevent him from phoning or knocking on the door but if he does you want a plan in place. ANY contact from him must be shared with you. If he is persistent then legal action.

You are staying because you are an honorable man. You are staying because you are a committed responsible father and want to keep your family together. If she can't respect that then she is clueless.

Schedule a sit down time with her and lay out your conditions for R. No negotiations, you tell her how R is going to go down. If she doesn't like it then she can pack her stuff and go shack up with the POSOM.

I can't believe she doesn't realize this guy is a player. Did you say he has been married twice? Your wife is lost in the fog, she needs to understand that he will cheat on her. He has no moral compass as evident with him having a sexual relationship with a married woman.

You make it clear that you are going to hold NO secrets about the reason for the divorce if that is the outcome from this crisis she has caused the family. You will not hide her affair from friends and family. You will not suffer in silence, you will not heal alone, you will have support.

Will she even respect me if I stay with her after she's having a lustful affair with OM?

Barry - This is a very normal question that many people, particularly men, ask. I know I did.

Here's my thought process. Both options, staying in or leaving the marriage are not easy. They each have their own benefits and their own downside. Getting a divorce is a "quicker" route to healing in some ways. Reconciliation is a long process and is a tremendous amount of work. I am in R. So I stayed. But I could have left. I still could. My wife knows this. Yet I'm still here for me, for her, for my kids. Working hard. Dealing with the pain, the triggers, the sad times, the emotional roller coaster. And yet enjoying the good times as well. Making sure my family remains intact. Ensuring my kids grow up in a healthy and stable environment.

I respect me.

Does my wife respect me for staying? I'd say yes. Because of the above.

Go back to Bigger's example. You have two roads. You need to let your wife know that either road is an option. Even if for now you choose Reconciliation Road, she needs to know that a change to Divorce Drive is an acceptable alternative for you if she does not meet your conditions and fully comes along for the journey. Then, and IMO only then, will she respect you. Because you are operating from a position of strength. You are not staying out of weakness. You're not afraid to leave. You become your own man and you have two options in front of you. And when she knows you could choose either but specifically chose to stay...it's a whole different ballgame.

That is why you get advice promoting the 180. So you can detach. Be your own man. Know that you can move on without her. Doesn't mean you will, but that you are confident enough in yourself that leaving is a viable option. And that's the key. Operating from a position of strength. And then, the respect question becomes moot.

It is SO hard to think objectively right now. I remember being right where you are now - in that free fall. Take a deep breath and see if you can step back. I'm going to walk you through something...

1. Scenario one is that she really doesn't want you. She keeps talking to him, maybe sneaking out of the house and seeing him. You catch her. You divorce.

2. Scenario two is that she becomes the most incredible WW in history and does every single thing you ask, starting right now.

3. Scenario three - far most likely - is that you go off to work and she sneaks a goodbye phone call. There is a solid chance that will happen. She tells him how much she cares about him but is committed to making her marriage work. You never find out and, 3 years later, you are well on your way to full reconciliation. Sucks... but really not the worst thing to ever happen.

4. Scenario four - she makes that final phone call and you DO find out. What do you do now? Are you pissed? Do you file for divorce? Do you have a blowout fight in which you, again, set boundaries that she might (or might not at this point) break?

This, really, is where you are at. Odds are, like most cheating wives who are emotionally caught up, she will get in touch for closure. Yes, I know - we want her to be 100% no contact, period. But in reality, that seldom happens. And - if you think about it - if that's all it is... good. Get it out of your system. Now turn around and help fix the marriage.

Where this does NOT work is when the cheating spouse continues to contact the AP. Then, in my opinion, it's gloves off time.

Lastly, the question always in the back of your mind will be: What if she is still doing stuff behind my back AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT?

I would submit that you are far different than you were two months ago. Your ears are up, hair standing on the back of your neck. You're aware now and will probably never be as trusting as you once were. You will notice little things like her reluctance to hold your hand, have sex, look you in the eye. Plus, you are now confronting her when these things happen - reminding her that if things aren't moving in the right direction, there will be consequences (meaning, your marriage). You will know whether or not she's "in."

So, in the end, you have moved past phase I. She's decided to stay and, as far as you know, she's ok with the agreement. Take the time to lay out your boundaries and the consequences of breaking them. Then, begin doing YOUR thing. Moving in a direction that YOU want to go and see what happens.

She just might tag along.

I agree with Lifeiscrazy's last two posts, including about the VAR and the likelihood of it coming back to haunt you is very slim. You have to know what is going on with her if you try to patch things up with her.

Dobby and Notanotherchance have good posts too.

Again, you need to pick your head out of the manure pile and breathe in order to be on your 'A' game. You aren't doing that. What I mean is you haven't taken my advice on collecting your thoughts and having a 'YOU' day. It is only increasing your pain

Turns out her affair partner did have an SO but she broke up with him when she found out about their affair. She caught my wife at his house a few weeks ago and I'm just being informed now by the betrayed girlfriend. Wife never ever menthoned going to his house...

[This message edited by barry22 at 8:18 AM, February 10th (Friday)]