SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Barry, that sounds like a good thing!

A lot of people equate an affair to addiction. Your wife is an addict and anyone addicted to tobacco, alcohol, pills or another person the change will not be immediate.

She needs to go through withdrawal and will have good and bad days. It will be ugly for both of you.

Hopefully no relapse.

She still has a lot of balls to keep talking about how the OM feels, does she expect you to be sympathetic to her or to OMs hurt feelings.

The fact that she actually quit the job is a big step in the right direction. You have to admit that.

and like AA says. One day at a time. For both of you.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 7:24 PM, February 8th (Wednesday)]

How do I know she even stopped the kiss? How do I know that they weren't intimate?

You don't for sure. But she did quit. Won't be coming back there. Went "no contact." Go read the wayward forum, go near the back of the pages and work forward, look how many wayward wives post that they can't stop thinking about the other man.

If you want to save the marriage, these are the cards you were dealt. You are handling it so far. This is a process. It takes time.

I personally think it's important that she doesn't go on the internet and search for other man and what he's doing. The main thing I see that wayward wives care about is that (1) this love with this man meant something (to the point she might be very disappointed if he doesn't "fight" for her) and (2) she worries about him being hurt (you too, but if her worry of level is #9 on a 1-10 scale, her worry for you is at #2.) I can't even believe half the shit I post here, when I first got married if you'd ever think I'd be in a place like this posting advice like this ... I do love my kids. But I feel like I know too damn much about this.

Anyway, my take on it is that she spent a lot of time texting, sexting, thinking about him, etc. - now there is a big void - plus she quit - what will she fill with that void? I think it's important for it to be productive to the marriage as opposed to pining for the star-crossed lover she can't have. Would it bother you to start texting her a bit more?

Here is something I am worried about. Although the other man works how do I know my wife won't see him secretly when I'm at work. I know she's not over him and I know she feels strongly for him, it freaking sucks knowing she's upset over another man right now. I am scared and paranoid and that's not a good combination to be.. IS she even allowed to leave the house without me or one of the kids? Like I don't even see any other way.

[This message edited by barry22 at 7:21 PM, February 8th (Wednesday)]

I think you were afraid of being arrested about the VAR and nanny-cam. I think it is legal to put a camera in front of your house. At least you will know if she comes and goes, or if he does.

Too bad we all can't go kick his ass for ya. What a jerk, it would be hard for me not to go kick his ass. I guess that is the low class part of me coming out, but seriously this dude needs his ass kicked really good and maybe next time he will think twice before screwing with a married woman.

But Barry, I would probably never do any of that. After I caught my wife and confronted same day, I monitored her email, phone, social media, etc., for about two weeks.

Number 1, it was exhausting.

Number 2, I looked in the mirror and saw a loser standing there looking back at me. The kind of guy who needs to track his wife or else his wife will fuck another guy. So I just let it ride and figured I'd know if she started it again, because there were a ton of red flags, except I just KNEW my wife would NEVER EVER cheat on me. So if she did it again, if it lasted any length of time, I would find out. And then there would be no other chance after that.

Barry, I kind of was hoping she would cheat, then it would make it easier on me. I was so angry, I really felt I was a good husband and father, good provider, never perfect, but she never complained about anything other than stupid shit like the toilet was in the wrong side.

She had to win me back. I let her know that.

You can't secretly record your wife without her consent, audio or video. If she is OK with you placing a VAR in car and cameras in the house you are good. But seriously who would want to live their life under 24 hour surveillance? Your wife would feel like she is in prison.

My 1st wife was having an affair with a co-worker. I found his number and called him but he wasn't home and the answering machine picked up. This was back in the early 90s. Anyway I left a heated message, cussing him, telling him I'm going to hunt him down for screwing my wife. Well he didn't get the message 1st, his fiancee did and she left him right then and there.

I just spent several hours reading Wallop's 1st 2 threads. Could not stop. It has given me an appreciation for your perspective as well as those who guided you along the way.

Those threads reinforced in me the importance of exposing. Not only for the bubble bursting affect but also so the betrayed can have some loving support.

Barry, I strongly urge you to expose to her family and to your teen kids. Yes, your wife is going through withdrawal. Facing her kids pained faces at the betrayal will be like a bucket of ice code water on her warm feelings that she's holding on to.

I also suggest that you REALLY independently find out about OM. Is he really divorced or is he just separated or has a girlfriend? If you could uncover that her OM was just a player, it could help shatter her illusion that she's under.

If there was ever a time when you should be able to kick a mans ass and get away with it legally it's when he's been messing with your wife. Used to be, thst's pretty much how it was. If you beat him down, then unless he was permanently damaged or killed 'he had it comin' to him' as far as most were concerned. Nowadays, geez the law and court system is rediculous.

Soulhurt, how do private investigators get around taking videos if it is againstvthe the law to secretly video subjects? Or is it only videoing your own wife? Even if she's at the mall, or in a restaurant? Or does the private investigators gave special licenses to take video? Can you cite the statute?

Also, is it illegal to read her email without her authorization?

In my state you can't put a VAR in your wife's car to secretly record her conversations without her consent. Also you can't put a GPS on her car as well, there is a grey area here if the car is not in her name, however it is still community property so she does have some ownership under that. Also the same with the house, you can't secretly record her in the home without her consent. You can secretly record non-owners of the property like nannies. I believe you can record people in public, take photos of spouses and their affair partners out on dates, dancing at bars, going to hotels ect.

I echo jsmarts post above. I would investigate every facet of everything your WW has told you.

In my case I investigated OM background, his education, his social media, looked up his property holdings on tax assessor sites, and happened to have relatives who lived near his hometown who tracked down his parents for me and put a bug in their ear.

I would confirm his job position in relation to hers, his marital status, expose his actions to his employer, plus expose to his SO even if they are no longer together.

In short, I would visit every kind of hell I could on him within limits of the law. You must wipe that shit-eating smile off his face and make him sorry he even said hello to your WW.

Soulhurt,

This has been mentioned many times, and specifically pointed out to you, but you are wrong. Under federal law, you can record conversations with VARS under the one-party-consent rule, if you are a party to the conversation. Check out 18 USC 2511(2)(d). Thus, you can record using a VAR in your pocket if you are part of the conversation. If, however, you plant a VAR and walk away, you need the other party's consent. State rules differ, but 40 states have copied the federal statute.

Furthermore, it is not illegal to place and use audiofree cameras in conspicuous places, such as pointed towards your doors, on private property. If you want to record audio as well, then the one-party-consent rule described before applies.

In your case, it seems the cameras were placed in your house in locations to see your wife having online sex, and therefore she had a reasonable expectation of privacy. Thus, your video may not be admissible because it violated privacy rules.

Anyway, who cares. This is about Barry knowing the truth. He may not be able to use VAR recordings to prove infidelity in court, but he will still know the truth, and gain some peace of mind.

Yes you can record your wife if you are a party to the conversation. So if I'm talking with my wife or whoever I can secretly record that conversation.

What I can not do, is secretly record my wife when I'm not a party to the conversation. Like hiding a VAR in her car. That is illegal. Also I can not hide a video camera in our house and record her without her consent.

The GPS is kinda of grey area if the car is not titled in her name. If it is titled in both names or her name alone you cannot secretly place a GPS on the car and track her without her consent.

VARs are used all the time by betrayed to catch waywards. It is tool to help determine if further contact is being made.

Barry unfortunately found more than he bargained for. I wouldn't have admitted that I found out by a VAR. He could've bluffed that he had her followed.

Even though he shouldn't have given up the source, it was enough to snap his WW out of it for a bit.

She quit her job, which is a huge step. Yes, she's going to have to go through withdrawal. It's going to suck to see her mope around for POS.

As was mentioned above, she's shell shocked. A few days ago, she was plotting having you removed from the house. Thankfully after getting busted she chose Barry and the family. She's probably also ashamed of herself. Weird mix of feelings, shame of her actions and desire to go back for more.

Jsmart - Sorry you tortured yourself reading my threads.

The truth is I was very fortunate to have some of SI's veterans and experts offer their advice and guidance, which really saved me. Some have been posting on this thread like Bigger, western, and wk55hn.

Barry - I had my attorney send my wife's OM a Cease and Desist letter. If you speak to an attorney, that's an avenue you can pursue. Action after that would be a Restraining Order. I didn't give two shits about the OM so screw him if he didn't like it and I didn't give my wife the option or consult with her about it. Just did it.

Regarding your wife, the others have it right. It's good that she told you. But she's going to go through withdrawal. Breaking No Contact is likely. Not because I think she's a bad person or intentionally wants to hurt you, but because she's going to look for some kind of closure beyond her talk with him today. I hope I'm wrong.

[This message edited by Walloped at 9:12 PM, February 8th (Wednesday)]

Barry,

You've been bombarded with advice, most of it very good.

You're in good hands with some of SI's wisest and most experienced.

With all your doubts, it's still a very positive thing that she quit her job. My biggest concerns are these 2....

1. Her difficulty in getting to NC and feeling so "torn" over him reveal the fact that this A was highly emotional for her. The emotional attachments are the hardest ones to break.

2. You were recently slammed with a brick-to-the-head dose of trickle truth on the physical stuff. That changes the whole ballgame in my opinion. As much as you want to R, the lies and trickle truth may be more than you can forgive.

That's why it's dangerous for a BS to offer up R in the early stages of discovery. Now that she quit the job, you're going to feel obligated to stay with her, even if the R turns false. All I'm saying is consider the job quitting and NC as requirements for you to consider R. Not guarantees that you'll stay forever. It's just too early.

Have you consulted an attorney to discuss all this? If not, you should do so. And DO NOT tell your WW you are doing so.

Good luck man.

That is a great idea by Walloped. Yes have your attorney send that POS a letter to leave your wife alone.

Barry you have had a really rough time since Jan 17th and the last few days have been really bad. However you are doung great, you are getting to the bottom of this very quickly, moving yourself out of infidelity.

Has your wife shown any warning signs that she capable of this? Did this just come out of the blue.

Soulhurt, do you have a cite? Is every state the same? What about videoing in public? What if you put a video outside of the house looking at the front door? Secretly. What if you video your wife in the restaurant with the OM? Secretly. You said:

You can't secretly record your wife without her consent, audio or video.

Is this below right or wrong?

Is it Legal to Record Video with a Hidden Camera or "Nanny Cam" in Your Home?

Generally speaking, it's legal in the United States to record surveillance video with a hidden camera in your home without the consent of the person you're recording. That's why the use of nanny cams is becoming increasingly common among parents and guardians who work outside their homes during the day. But before you place a hidden camera or nanny cam in your home, it's a good idea to research the laws in your state. For an extra measure of security, you may also want to speak to an attorney about the specific ways you plan to use your camera. And bear in mind that audio recording and video recording are two entirely different topics. Audio recording is discussed separately below. In most states, it's illegal to record hidden camera video in areas where your subjects have a reasonable expectation of privacy. In your home, these areas might include bathrooms and bedrooms (if your subject lives with you — as in the case of a live-in nanny).

Not every state expressly bans the use of hidden cameras in places where a subject might have a reasonable expectation of privacy. But that doesn't mean you should assume it's legal — or morally acceptable — to record a subject without his or her consent in any private area.

Also remember that it's illegal in the United States to record video (or audio) with the express purpose of blackmail or other "malicious intent." Even if you follow all other laws governing covert surveillance in your state, please keep in mind that your rights are waived if you engage in criminal behavior.

Is it Legal to Record with a Hidden Camera in Public Areas Outside Your Home?

Outside the home, similar laws apply. It's generally legal to record surveillance video in public places — inside retail stores, restaurants or other places of business, for example. It's also legal to record covert video outdoors in parks, shopping malls, city streets or public squares.

"Reasonable expectation of privacy" guidelines apply to the placement of hidden cameras in public places as well. For example, it's illegal to record covert video in hotel rooms, restrooms, changing rooms, locker rooms and other "private" areas.

Is it Legal for Employers to Record with a Hidden Camera in the Workplace?

Neither the federal government nor the states have established a firm set of laws governing hidden camera recording in the workplace. Currently, small business owners are generally within their legal rights if they install hidden cameras in their places of business. Though many business owners choose to notify their employees of the presence of hidden cams, they're not legally required to do so.

Based on guidelines established by the National Labor Relations Board, larger corporations — especially those that employ union workers — often negotiate with the applicable trade unions beforehand to establish rules governing the use of hidden cameras. But again, there are few clearly defined federal or state laws that require them to do so.

Is it Legal to Record Conversations with a Hidden Audio Device?

The laws on audio surveillance are a bit clearer than the laws governing hidden camera surveillance. If you're planning to record a telephone call or an in-person conversation (using either a standalone audio recorder or a video camera that also captures sound), federal and state laws require that at least one of the parties consent to the recording. Currently, a majority of states allow "one-party consent." States that require two-party consent include California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington. (Hawaii is something of a hybrid state. It allows one-party consent for audio recordings, but it requires two-party consent if the recording device is located in a "private place.")

Is it Legal to Record a Phone Call or Conversation When You Do Not Have Consent from One of the Parties?

At either the federal or state level, it's almost always illegal to record a phone call or private conversation in which you are not a participant, or couldn't naturally overhear the conversation in a public place. Additionally, federal and state laws generally deem it illegal to covertly place a recording device on a person or telephone in a home, office or restaurant to secretly record a conversation between two people who have not consented.