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I'm going to try and be the rational voice here.

Not that everyone else is being irrational, but....

Sending them on a plane alone, while upsetting to them, is not unheard of in these situations. You mentioned a flight chaperone, so he did do that part correctly - they weren't exactly alone, they had a chaperone.

Not telling them until they got to the airport sucks, and will really tank his credibility and trustworthiness with them (if he had any left), but could probably still be considered a judgement call by a parent. Sucks big time, but probably nothing anyone (i.e., CS and the courts) would consider "wrong".

All that being said, the part you do need to do something about is that he gave YOU no notice of all of this. Really, the arrangements weren't necessarily a problem (even if they did suck big time - I mean, sending them home alone midnight ON THANKSGIVING NIGHT? They couldn't have at least had a full thanksgiving together first and sent them home the next night?) But not giving you notice so you could be prepared, so you could make the necessary arrangements to meet them at the gate, etc., is the part he needs to be nailed on.

When kids are sent alone like that, it is done with flight chaperones, sure, but also with the understanding that someone is there AT THE GATE on both ends. And since you can't normally go to the gate unless you are flying, it takes special arrangements to do that to pick them up on your end. Which you can't do UNLESS YOU KNOW YOU NEED TO!!!!!

The reason I clarified all that is that you want to make sure you document and make the complaint correctly. You don't want him to have any wiggle room to say that you are over-exaggerating or getting emotional or whatever. Just make it clear that he made these arrangements with no advance notice to the kids, and more importantly, no advance notice to you. State how long the kids were waiting before you even found out why they were delayed, and how much longer it took before you got to them because you had to jump through all the hoops last minute instead of getting there and being prepared ahead of time and waiting for them when they got there.

In my book, this is child endangerment. The chaperone is only supposed to be with the kids on the flight. They are supposed to stay with them until handed off to the person who is supposed to get them, but that person is supposed to be waiting for the flight when it arrives. And there have been many stories of chaperones just leaving the kids at the gate.

You need to get this stuff on the record. And make sure you do it accurately so he has NOTHING to dispute.

A$$wipe.

Thank you for all the camaraderie. I needed it today. I'm still processing how I think and feel about all of this. Despite my best efforts, it's put a big hamper on my day. There is no bottom to the pit in his soul.

I realize kids fly alone, without incident, all the time. My frustration is not with that.

I'm *most* angry that he sprung this on my children at the last minute. They have never flown alone. He let them fly far away from their home/mom and then announced the only way to get back home was to get on a plane alone. He should have told them the truth up front. They should have been given the opportunity to say they weren't comfortable with it. I should have been given the opportunity to travel to accompany them home -- which I would have done, if necessary. Instead, he hid it from me and sprung it on them when they had no option but to comply.

In particular, my eight year old is very sensitive. She told me she cried when daddy told her, cried at the airport, and couldn't stop crying on the plane. I asked if the chaperone noticed, and they said she was busy. A woman sitting next to them comforted her and gave her Kleenex. She said she felt sick on the plane and was scared to use the bathroom alone, so she "didn't drink anything the whole time."

Yes, he had a flight chaperone accompany them. The airline requires it, so he doesn't get any points for that.

Yes, the flight chaperone had my contact information; however, he gave them the wrong name (my married name), so that created additional problems/delays getting my security pass at the airport. Also, the flight chaperone had my daughter call me directly at first, but when 30 minutes or so had passed, the chaperone called me directly and was very frustrated and accusatory. She clearly thought I was just late. She had no idea what was going on. Once I told her the full story, then she became more helpful and ended up bringing my girls out past security to meet me. Then, because of the mix up with my name, both of my daughters had to be taken into a private room to confirm I am their mother before they would let me take them.

I sent xWH a message about this. I tried to be composed. So far, his response is that he "thought the airline would coordinate all of the pick-up arrangements with me" and that "next time he'll just have his sister pick up the kids to avoid a problem."

This is hardly the first time he's fucked up with tremendous flair. The last time he took my children out of town, he was supposed to return them on Easter Sunday before 4 p.m. When I texted him around noon on Easter Sunday to confirm pick-up arrangements, he told me he "must have made a scheduling mistake" and they weren't flying home until Tuesday. He didn't say he was sorry once. He told me, "Good luck finding flights home for the girls before then, but if you do, it's at your expense." My attorney wasn't ready to take action just yet. He said he wanted an indisputable pile of fuck-ups before we motion for full custody, I think we're getting close.

My next steps:

- Contact my attorney Monday

- Ask if this is the "fuck up" for which we've been waiting to pursue full custody

- Based on attorney's recommendation, take action immediately

PS: I AM a warrior, indeed. Thanks Chrysalis. :)

[This message edited by I_Do_Exist at 7:53 PM, November 25th (Friday)]

With all due respect Osxgirl, you're wrong. Sending minor children alone on flights is a decision for both parents to undertake and not for one to make with the OW, regardless of flight chaperones. He was out of line and the fact a chaperone was assigned to the girls has zero to do with this. Flat. Out. Wrong!

That is, IMO, child abuse and cruel. Follow advice given and add to documentation to change custody arrangements. Your daughters don't need any more trauma added to the trauma they will have anyway.

This is so fucked up I don't even know what to say.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think there was anything right about what this idiot did. I was just trying to make a distinction between what the "system" will see as a problem, as opposed to what a normal, thinking , feeling, human parent would and should do. They, unfortunately, aren't always the same.

@turnothercheek I agree completely it should be done with the agreement of both parents. But after seeing on here how courts and such decide, I'm not that sure they would say he was wrong to send them, as long as he followed procedures.

But... He didn't. He didn't make sure I_Do_Exist was looped into everything and would be there on the other side to get the girls.

I_Do_Exist : yeah, give you attorney the messages showing exactly how your X responded. Because I guarantee you the airline told him that someone needed to be there waiting at the other end, and that he assured them he had it arranged. I'm surprised they didn't insist on having all the details including your emergency contact from him ahead of time. They can have MAJOR problem about this kind of thing. I'd bet what he told the airline does not line up at all with anything he has told you.

And the whole "next time I'll have my sister pick them up" is a load of crap. He has no business doing that - these things need to be worked out with you. If he is not adult enough to do that, he's not adult enough to have custody, in my book. I just hope the courts will see it the same.

Oh, and I read what the others said about the OW and the prescription meds. You probably should have told your lawyer before, but I think I would bring it up now anyway. If he/she wants to know why you didn't say something when it happened, just say you were convinced nothing would be done to him & the situation would just get worse for the girls, but now you see that the situation is getting worse regardless.

ETA: ask your lawyer, but I'm wondering if it might help your case to put in a complaint with the airline about this.

[This message edited by osxgirl at 4:28 AM, November 26th (Saturday)]

It can be done..Older elementary school aged kids flying without a designated adult seated with them..

My sister and I used to fly cross country together without an adult accompanying us... From LAX to Chicago O'hare airports each summer for 5 or 6 years in a row...We were 8 -10 years old when we started this... Flying back and forth to swap parent visitation during the summers..

I DON'T think it is cruel or inappropriate to have the children fly alone together...

I think it is HIGHLY in appropriate not to clue them in ahead of time though...

My sister and I knew weeks ahead of time what would be happening, when and how we would be flying...During the flight we knew who to approach if we needed something...Somebody was always there to meet us at the gate of each destination, and we always knew who to look for.. My sister and I felt temporarily sad to leave one parent for the other for the summer, but we considered each of our flights an adventure, not traumatic in the least...To this day I like flying as my favorite way to travel long distances..

THE IMPACT ON THE KIDS DEPENDS ON THE PRE-PLANNING for their safety and consideration for their feelings....

[This message edited by doggiediva at 6:54 AM, November 26th (Saturday)]

I think we all get and know at what age kids can fly alone. We all see it all the time. That is NOT the point here and even if it is, no judge is going to tell a mother it's OK if she had no idea her XH was doing that without consulting her.

And by the way, while I have seen many kids fly alone, I have also been on not 1 but 2 flights where a perv was arrested on the other end of that flight for improperly touching that child!

These were young girls who were already scared so doing this to them without prepping them or deciding together with their mother is clearly abusive!

I am not trying to be dramatic, but is there any chance your shitty XH is hoping to use your being late to pick the girls up against you?

This is why I would document the crap out of everything and it's great that you're going to see your attorney. Definitely follow through on that.

I'm concerned that he's trying to set you up to look bad.

If you have the texts between you and him where you told him you didn't know what was happening I would screen shoot them and print them out as evidence in case you need it.

He's either the most colossally selfish and shitty Father, or he's those things AND he's up to no good.

I'm so sorry for your girls. I hope they're feeling better now. That was such a dick move on his part.

I'm still processing this situation and realized my DD8 didn't have her rescue inhaler in her backpack on the plane. She has asthma and has been having an attack about every other day this summer/fall.

I asked her about it and she told me -- brace yourselves, because I can hardly believe it myself -- "Daddy wouldn't let me bring it on the plane. He shares the inhaler he uses with me, and he told me he needed to keep it with him in Maui. I asked him, 'What if I have an attack on the airplane,' and he told me, 'You won't.' I was scared."

I feel so clear-minded this morning.

Yesterday, the emotions were high and raw. I was spinning with anger and frustration.

Today, it is simple, pure, solid logic: This man cannot be a responsible parent to my children.

The path forward is clear. I will pursue full legal custody beginning Monday.

[This message edited by I_Do_Exist at 11:59 AM, November 26th (Saturday)]

"Daddy wouldn't let me bring it on the plane. He shares the inhaler he uses with me, and he told me he needed to keep it with him in Maui. I asked him, 'What if I have an attack on the airplane,' and he told me, 'You won't.' I was scared."

Is he letting his minor child use his prescribed inhaler, or is he stealing his minor child's prescribed inhaler?

That's some seriously stanky bullshit going on right there. Document the ever-loving fuck out of that.

When I was a kid with asthma and carrying a rescue inhaler in my pocket all the time, being on an airplane was one of the riskiest places for me to be because of the lower humidity and lower partial pressure of oxygen. Not to mention the stress of traveling without parents.

Bullshit Level: EPIC

Thank you.

The girls deserve better.

k9

What a piece of work.... and a sick selfish bastard.

FTG

Put those bitch boots on and stomp on him.

Oh like there are no pharmacies in Maui....

Give me a break!

Monday morning cant come soon enough!!!!

You got this!

I agree with everyone it was a Dick move, but now to here about the inhaler puts it way beyond that.

I have asthma and you don't know what will trigger an attack especially on a plane because you can't control what other people will wear (perfume/Cologne, certain shampoos/body soap and hairspray) plus you are surrounded by people wearing this stuff.

On top of that stress could trigger an attack and I'm sure she was pretty stressed out.

That was so dangerous not to send her with her inhaler. I'm sure that wasn't a short flight.

I wish there was a way to get him to feel what it is like to have an asthma attack! OMG what a dumb f*ck!

Definitely make sure you get this down with your lawyer he endangered her life with not sending her with one.

This just might get you full custody for the danger he put her in.

I don't even leave my house without my portable nebulizer with me (besides inhaler) if I know I'm going to be gone for awhile past 15-20 away from home because sometimes the inhaler is not enough.

If the court does not see this as a problem something needs to be done with the system.

I'm so sorry he put you and the girls through this.

Hugs to you and the girls.

The more I think about what his jerk did, the madder I get for your kids. What if you had been spending Thanksgiving 8 hours away from the airport? What if your daughter DID have an attack while on the plane? You said she cried all the way back on the plane; she was already upset and it is not inconceivable she could have had an attack. This man cares nothing for his kids. I really hope the courts make sure he has nothing but visitation supervised by an officer of the court I bet that would stop his visitation altogether.

I am letting my girls slowly continue to tell me what they want about their experience -- and here's the latest tidbit.

My DD12 told me, "Yeah, daddy gave DD8 a pill before she got on the plane and promised her it would prevent her from having an asthma attack."

I'm speculating he gave her Benadryl to try to make her sleep (he put them on the plane alone at 12 midnight Maui time).

Either way, he lied to her (I *wish* magic pills existed to prevent her from having an attack) and gave her some kind of medication before boarding a plane alone.

As if I need any more reason . . . but the nail is in the coffin. All that's left is my copious documentation for my attorney on Monday morning.

[This message edited by I_Do_Exist at 1:48 PM, November 26th (Saturday)]

This was uncaringly bad and selfish parenting before, but your last 2 posts move this beyond crazy fuckedupedness and possibly criminal as well!! Nail him! (((((IDE & DDs)))))

My DD12 told me, "Yeah, daddy gave DD8 a pill before she got on the plane and promised her it would prevent her from having an asthma attack."

I'm speculating he gave her Benadryl to try to make her sleep (he put them on the plane alone at 12 midnight Maui time).

Oh, great. So she'd be sleeping or groggy during the flight.

Taking her inhaler was a dick move. Giving her Benadryl is a SUPER dick move.

Women get molested on flights on a sadly regular basis. There was a Slate article about it back in August, easily found via Google for "what happens when sexual assault happens on a long haul flight."

I'm not sure if you realize this but the airline "guardian" was not on the plane with them unless fuckwad paid a butt load. The normal routine for unescorted minors is an airline employee stays with them until they are on the plane. The flight attendants will know about the kids and try to keep an eye on them but on a long flight won't have a huge amount of time for them. The girls would have been pretty much on their own for most of the flight. If DD had had an attack, it could have been VERY bad.

Once the plane lands, the minors are held on the plane until everyone else is off and then another airline employee will escort them off the plane and stay with them until the designated person shows up and signs for them.

I only post this because it sounded as if you were under the impression they had an escort the whole flight. I wanted you to know that I'm 95% sure they did not.

Your ex is an asshat of epic proportions. I hope you nail his sorry ass to the wall. I'd gladly nut-punch him for you.