SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Bingo, DoggieDiva; thank you! I totally concur. If one of the partners to a marriage (or any SO relationship) is unwilling to do their work--for whatever broken reason--things will end badly.

Agree with nekorb and eric1:

she knew her sister had already told Walloped, so she'd better come clean.

Standard don't confess to anything until you have to. Wayward 101.

Look, I'm all about R with a remorseful WS. She isn't there yet. Hoping she gets there, she IS doing a lot of work, but...

Be patient Walloped. If your wife is truly "doing the work", and it seems she is, she will hopefully get to the point of true remorse.

If you guys don't think SIL told her that she told Whallup about the NC break attempt then I have some ice to sell you at the North Pole

Probably SIL is guiding WW to do the right thing. And telling WW, "I told Walloped the truth, you better start being open and telling the truth, too, what the hell happened to my sister to go far off the path." I think your SIL has done a huge favor to you, especially initially, but SIL also wants WW to succeed in the reconciliation and will help her, not necessarily trying to be sneaky to deceive you but to get WW to do the right thing. At some point you have to know WW is doing stuff on its own, not SIL guiding there.

I think WW will come around. You might have to make her a little less afraid that any false step will result in divorce. She's lost her pointer, 5 months of living a double life will do that to you. She WILL make some more bad decisions, choices, mistakes, whatever you want to call them. She is rudderless at the moment. You are hurting like hell, but you know who you are. You know what you are all about, and you know what's right from wrong. She is lost, trying to remember who she used to be and who she has become now and she is doubting her ability to tell right from wrong and how can her judgement and decision be so off.

I find a bright side that she wants to make you happy and say the right thing, she wants to save her marriage. She is a little too afraid to make you happy and save her whole world from crashing down rather than to tell the whole unvarnished truth. The fact that she caused it herself does not change the fact that it is her whole way of life as she knew it.

I worry a little about the WW in these situations, a one-time loss of judgement that causes possible utter and complete destruction of everyone's way of life. You have to do what you need to do, but in my opinion a long faithful marriage who has been a devoted wife and good mother means a little something than if she had been a horrible wife and mother prior to this in a shorter marriage.

**** Here is another way of wording what I am trying to say..

I read this somewhere and it resonates with me...

"A person's needs are his or her problem. The world doesn't owe someone anything. No one is entitled to advice or mentoring or success. The only thing a person is entitled to is what he or she earns."

I do amend this a little to what I have lived thru the last year..

With my beloved mother..

She did everything she could ALONE to fight depression..She was a shut in, in her own house..Fabulously pretty house and property but hard for her to enjoy due to mobility and health reasons..

Us daughters flew in to help care for Mom...She never asked of us what she couldn't do for herself..

A partner, a relative, a loved one has to deal with his/her needs the best he or she can..

Unselfish people won't strain the marriage if they don't need to..

They are more interested in adding to the marriage...So they don't enter that A mentality or slide down a slippery slope into betrayal..

They don't suck the life out of their partners....

And I can't reconcile the two people in my mind. So I vacillate between wanting to believe her and wanting to strangle her.

Exactly. Hence the roller coaster analogy you hear quite often.

It's all over the place in the beginning. We all know the "beginning" can last days or months...the roller coaster doesn't stop then, just the hills and curves are less frequent and you can manage them a little better.

You're doing fine, walloped. Hang in there, buddy. This is not the time to be hasty, but it is also not the time to be a pushover.

There are many of us here who would have loved a WS willing to do the work of R, you may have one, so try and relax a little (fucking impossible, but I have to say it). I remember this overwhelming need to know everything and have everything decided and planned and what was going to happen every step of the way. I'm a planner. Infidelity doesn't work that way and neither does the aftermath whether it moves toward R or not.

Whalluped,

You are still in shock. You of course are going to want to jump to a conclusion but now isn't the time.

One of the issues with this place is also one of its benefits - most of the folks here are unfortunate veterans, and also experienced with the site. We've seen this play out so many times that it's pretty easy to project out what should / will happen and it becomes easy to lose focus on the thread.

I will say to avoid putting her on a pedestal. She was not an amazing mother because amazing mothers don't do what she did. But in the other hand she wasn't a shitty mother because she was also a more than capable parent. The irony is you have nothing to reconcile, she is exactly the person who can care for a sick child but is also the same exact person who was pushing 100% a relationship with a boyfriend that would still be escalating to who knows where if your brother didn't spot them. There is nothing to reconcile in your mind - that's her.

You're doing well man. I know you're getting sick of folks saying that because I'm sure you feel anything but well. But you're doing well. Just keep on....accepting. You're still in shock and thinking and doing will help you.

One day you'll wake up and be like 'holy shit it is so clear what I should do!' If you don't have that then you're either in the process of lying to yourself or have decided that limbo is easier than making a decision(it never is by the way). In short, deal with the things that you can actually deal with now.

I feel your pain Walloped... I truly do. The sad fact of the matter is that both you and eric are right. You can't rightfully discount the past 27 years, nor can you discount the 5 month affair. Your wife is capable of both, and that is why infidelity is such a shit sandwich the average BS swallows one small bite at a time.

I really don't have much advice for you other than to make sure you take care of your children and yourself. Trying to understand your WW's thought process at this point is a fool's errand. She probably won't be able to make sense of this for some time, let alone you. Don't even worry about having to make a decision in the short to medium term. Only worry about what you can control, and that is yourself. Listen to her, ask questions and gather information. Trust her actions... not her words. She has no problem lying to you (straight up or by omission), so her words, at this point at least, are meaningless. I hope your wife understands that.

From your prior posts, you sound like an analytical person, so you probably want to know the details. You may have heard some things that you can't unhear this weekend, and for that I am sorry, but that is part of the process. I am much the same way, and from experience, forgiving the unknown is impossible. Just remember that regardless of what you heard, as painful as it is and will be, you do not have to make a decision now.

Sending you strength brother.

Walloped, a lot of us go through a grieving process for the spouse we had. so, not only are you grieving for the person you loved to the ends of the earth and back (and that person is gone, because at the point of the A, they only existed in your mind), you are now thrust into a new relationship already, and you don't very much like this new person.

It's tough and it sucks.

You'll get through it.

It's going to be OK.

YOU are going to be OK.

In general, my wife was and has been an amazing partner, mother, wife, lover, confidant, best friend. And then she did this. It is such a WTF! for me because the two are diametrically opposed. Like a paradox. And I can't reconcile the two people in my mind. So I vacillate between wanting to believe her and wanting to strangle her. Between giving her the benefit of the doubt and saying I can't trust her for a second and she's a self-serving, lying, manipulative bitch who's in preservation mode. And frankly, I don't know that I have the intellectual capability to fairly evaluate everything she says. We all have our biases and in my cases they're very strong on both sides of the fence. So I don't try. I just listen, react, ask questions, and then try to remember it all and post it here where I (and you) can sift through the crap and figure things out.

I also had this problem.... but when i realized that my limbo thoughts was only me going crazy, right ther i understood that our marriege was dead... killed.

So i needed to bury that marriege by D.

Any other solution would be like fooling around with myself

And so I said we should tell them we're having issues that we're working through - and that we love them and always will.

Do you think your children will be satisfied with that answer? This may only get them extra curious to find the truth and may lead to wild erroneous speculation, like "Dad had an affair???"

We discussed the kids. She said she'd agree to whatever I wanted to do. In the end I decided against telling them about the affair and instead to tell them that we were having issues that we needed to work through. She offered to tell them about the affair - said she didn't want them blaming me for anything when everything that was going on is her own fault. I wanted to let her. I really, really, really wanted to get back and her and tell her that this is what she chose and so she should clean up her own mess and the kids should know what kind of slut their mother was. Let them hate her for breaking up this family. Couldn't do it. Not if I really am the person I believe I am. She might deserve it, but the kids don't. Yes, it may be the truth, but IMO they don't deserve having to go through the rest of their lives hating their mother and having no respect for her. What would that do to them? Always blaming her. Not having a real relationship with her. I'd feel good about it for a few minutes and then live with the damage I've have done to them for the rest of my life. And who knows? Maybe we'll reconcile. And if we do get divorced, well people get divorced all the time - doesn't mean anyone is to blame. Our kids need us and we can't be all we need to be for them if they hate one of us for something we did. And so I said we should tell them we're having issues that we're working through - and that we love them and always will. And that it's not about them. And we'll always be here for them. And present a united front like we always did. Maybe it's the wrong call. I don't know. But when I really thought about it, it was the only one I could live with.

Sorry but here you are making a BIG mistake....

Then one day when your kids will find out the truth (and they will), you my friend will not be the same person and father for them.... and

your WW will be hated even more for having allowed you to hide her infedelity.

Hard times this weekend for you my friend.

Rant away. Get it out. Otherwise it will eat you from the inside. Don't apologize. Sometimes just letting the stream of thought flow out can release some of the tension.

As far as not telling the kids. In my opinion....while not a good long term solution, I can see its benefit in the short term. It allows you to focus primarily on getting the info and details you need. It will be hard enough jugguling your emotional rollercoaster, no need to add kid drama to that. One step at a time. Once you have had some time to process and make decisions, then you can deal with telling the kids.

Also, you might want to make going out with your brother a semi-regular thing for awhile. You will need a distraction and your brother really seems to get you. Everybody should have someone in their corner.

Sleep well.

Wallowed, ­

You need to be extra careful about what ­you say to your kids because, as far as ­I agree with you about damaging them by ­telling, they probably know something is­ wrong and will begin to ask questions. ­The danger here is that they get to know­ what happened by other means, from fami­ly members that know, ear something from­ your talks, form an acquaintance at the­ Volunteering place, etc.

What would you do if they want to know w­hat’s happened, why are you having issue­s? What would you tell them?

I am sorry but affairs are very destruct­ive and reach many people, places and ti­mes.

You need to protect your kids but your w­ife needs to face the consequences for w­hat she has done because she has done it­ to your kids not only to you. She needs­ to face it because it can blow to her f­ace any moment now. Sorry but IMO this k­ind of things is out of your control.

Good luck­

I agree with not telling the kids at this time. You can tell them later if the circumstance changes and you think you should.

I think this was a better conversation. Still some conflicting on items on her story especially her motivation. But this is human behavior and major trauma can play with your head sometimes. Many cheaters will "re-write" the history and remember a long happy marriage to be remembered as a terrible marriage. This is a flip side in your wife, she is re-writing the affair history to be less than what it was. At the time, she was into it. I believe she did not think about you at all while she was with him, but she did while she was with you. No matter, it won't change anything now one way or another. I believe she never planned to leave you, never thought about it, only was thinking about the present, but at the same time I think she was ripe because other man could easily have manipulated her IF he had wanted. I don't know if she would have been manipulated into it or if she would have finally got the alarm sirens and came to her senses, and you and her will never really know that. Again, no matter.

You will have other conversations like this. It is exhausting. It is a roller coaster. You can't fix it quick. It's a process involving time. Get your sleep, I think getting a good night's sleep is restorative to repairing the emotional side. I always noticed when I was in the first six months reconciling, the days I didn't sleep as well, the days I had a much worse time of it, the roller coaster rolled out of control.

She said the first time she slept with him, she panicked. She couldn't believe she did that. Never thought she'd ever do that to me. Said she scrubbed herself in the shower so much that her skin was raw. Was certain I'd see it written all over her face. Prayed I'd never find out. She'd be the best wife to me. But I didn't see. And she thought she could keep him at arms length and still volunteer. So she was at the hospital a week later. And so was he. And he was aggressive.

This is only my opinion. I have noticed in traditional male-female relationships, there are certain things that many if not most women almost in a primal unconscious are attraction to (and vice versa different things for men). I don't quite understand it, but it is something I have noticed enough times that I believe there is something to it. Unconsciously, I believe that if she felt you really loved her, you would have been so in tune with her, that you would have known. When you didn't, she unconsciously lost respect for you and this brought her closer to him. Then, his aggressiveness, I have seen many times what I believe unconsciously strongly attracts.

When I was a kid, my sister's bedroom lived next to mine, and I could hear her and her friends talking about guys and talking about guys and talking about guys and then talking about guys some more. They sure did talk about guys a lot. Almost universally these girls said they were attracted to guys who were confident. Now, I actually could see the guys who these girls were "liking," and the guys they were interested in, and most of these guys I would consider to NOT be confident at all, but rather a-holes, arrogant, obnoxious, braggarts.

To this present day, I can still see (I have a child who is a teenager) that goes on with girls and younger women, going less as women get older, but I do believe there is something primal going on there. Nothing you can do about it, but I did notice those two particular passages in your post that struck me with that regarding her "certain I'd see it written all over her face" and "he was aggressive." Disconcerting to me.

I agree that she is lying about these feelings and how the affair started. The biggest person she is lying to is herself. It's part of the compartmentalization mental gymnastics that she did to justify it to herself.

Some day she'll wake up and realize that her affair was not special or unique or a particular victimization process. It was just her going on some dumb dates to boring museums, getting a crush, starting a relationship and falling in love. Barf.

What she is doing (perhaps unwittingly) is trying to rewrite what happened as a process out of her control. She was or is not a drug addict feasting on compliments. Sure, they helped a ton. But the addiction she was in was actually a physical one. New Relationship Energy, that high you get when you first meet, dumps a drug called dopamine into your body. She was feasting on it. It's not unique or special, if you went out an had an affair you'd get the same high, but you don't. You're married and there are things that you value more than a quick hit. She didn't.

There is a reason they called survivors of infidelity victims and doesn't it sure as feel as if you are a victim now? These talks you're having are what is going to bring you out of shock and back into just-as-crappy reality.

Going back to the GANTT example this part is like when something goes wrong and the team is scattered trying to fix stuff (usually poorly) on their own. Everyone working on instinct. It's not until everyone is pulled into a room that these instincts are stomped on and a new rational, cohesive plan is assembled. That's what your mind is doing.

I feel for you man . I'll be honest, sometimes I feel like I type just to keep a dialogue open to continue the therapy of spilling your guts. If there is anything that we can do to help you with this therapy just raise your hand.

Eric

PS: atleast tell your adult children now. Fucking this hiding and lying one second longer. Your wife is the one that needs to tell the story to both your daughter and your new son-in-law in the room.

Wallowed, ­

Rant as much as you need and about anyth­ing that you need to… this place is also­ for it.

You need to put your self together so yo­ur wife. You both need to reach a place ­where you can be ready to talk about wha­t happened and you be able to keep calm ­and cooled minded and your wife explain ­what was in her head and ready not to an­swer your questions but to think about t­hem.

You W really need to understand the full­ consequences of her affair about people­ that are or will be affected (family, k­ids, friends, etc.) places forbidden fro­m now on (where you feel not safe her be­ing at) friends that knew and didn’t tel­l you (from volunteering or others) that­ now must be gone for good, etc. Also sh­e needs to realize what does she really ­wants because she already has payed half­ the cost, the other half she will pay f­or the rest of her life with you or with­out you.

She needs to understand what would take ­place if R and if she will be willing to­ do it. Even if D she will need to fix t­he relation with her kids once they real­ize what happened.

She has a lot to understand and realize ­about the aftermath of her doings before­ decide what she really wants or will be­ willing to do to get it.

One last thing, this is based on my expe­rience and only mine. You need to let he­r go at least in your mind. You shared a­ wonderful 26 years together but now you­r marriage is over. It means that she wa­s/is a great mom for your kids, was a gr­eat partner for you for long years. Enjo­y the memories and do not let her doings­ tainted them (maybe your daughter marri­age already is but not the ones before).­ You need to understand that your wife i­s death and is not coming back. Once you­ accept it and mourn it, you will be abl­e to see if the person that replaced her­ (your WW) is what you need. Understand ­that you own her nothing now and not in ­the future as your marriage was not a bu­siness deal to compensate. She was with ­you because she wanted and you were with­ her because you wanted too, no more.

She own s you nothing because she shared­ her life with you for 26 years and then­ decide that no more. The betrayal was n­ot to decide to be with someone else but­ to didn’t tell you what her plans were.­ She didn’t show the respect for you and­ your kids deserved.

She owns you nothing, she, and you, are ­a grown up and know what the word is lik­e and know that sometimes you get hurt b­y the ones you never expected. This is l­ife…

You need to find peace with what she has­ done in other to forgive her and being ­able to make the decisions that allowed ­yourself to look at the mirror every mor­ning and be OK.

Your wife is beginning to do everything ­needed to R, as mine did, and you will n­eed to decide if you could R, I couldn’t­, as R is not mandatory and some people ­can but others, like me, cant not.

Affairs are not consequences but choices­, are not mistakes but decisions. Sorry ­but you were not enough after 26 years a­nd is time to accept, it is like when yo­u finish a great book or your kids grow.­ It is time to accept that is over.

It doesn’t mean that you both cannot be ­together again as a couple, a different ­one that fulfil her, and you, that you b­oth decide to be together again.

It’s been more than 16 years and I think­ about her at least once a week, I am at­ SI because her doing are still in me (t­he pain is gone but the damage…) and aff­ecting my current marriage.

My WH minimized many details surrounding his infidelities. Getting the timelines from her will help, because you can go back over them and clarify what exactly went down, where you two were in your marriage (emotionally), and her feelings regarding the specifics of the timelines.

It took awhile, but eventually WH's story morphed from him being this passive entity, floating through an evening where things just HAPPENED to him to cause accidental sex with a stranger, to him being the aggressor and owning the conscious decisions he made to further his agenda of sleeping with another woman. He still has some rationalizations to come to terms with, but the latest version is much more truthful and shows more of his responsibility in starting the inappropriate behaviors.

I'm almost 4 months out from my DDay, and even though WH is doing his best to help, I still have MAJOR upset in my life from time to time. The roller coaster is still present. Keep posting, friend.

[This message edited by Briseis at 6:17 AM, August 17th (Monday)]