SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Maybe you should call him and go have a nice life with him. In fact, get the fuck out now. I just realized we're better off without you."

I think this falls into the category of shit we say only in our heads so that we can get it out of our system and say something productive to our WS. Not an overreaction, just fails a bit in constructive delivery.

Mike7 also said things are off to a good start, which they are, but one thing I've realized here on SI is that R requires a lot of patience from both people in the marriage.

Just because your WW isn't remorseful right this minute doesn't mean she won't get there when she is through processing regret. It also doesn't mean that when she gets to remorse you are still going to be interested in R.

It's a crapshoot for sure. Some days hearing about what folks go through in R makes me glad I'm just getting divorced...

So she said maybe she wanted to call him (POS/OM) hoping that perhaps she didn't destroy me, and everything else that she knows and loves for one big lie. Just to keep her sanity.

The reason I pushed the “player’s letter” and that the POS/OM wasn’t volunteering because he cared about the sick kids was to provide some shock therapy for your wife.

She had a great time with the POS/OM and will always have some fond memories. What you want is for her to associate those good memories with a negative stimulus like “she (did) destroy (you), and everything else that she knows and loves for one big lie.”

It’s like her reaching for a candy bar and receiving an electric shock. After a bit you don’t want to look at a candy bar. Drive home the point so that reminiscing about the affair will cause her to feel like a fool. The more of a fool she was the better.

The POS/OM used the children’s charity like his personal spider web and just waited around to see what likely candidates showed up.

You wife assumed he was a nice guy right off the bat because he was a volunteer. Then he listened to her every word, told her how special she was and helped her with the wedding plans. All of which was his player plan and reinforced what a nice guy he must be. You need to destroy that illusion with extreme prejudice.

Over 30 years ago my wife popped buttered popcorn in the microwave when I was extremely sick with the flu. The smell permeated the house. It took years before I liked popcorn again and to this day I don’t want butter on it. That’s what you want for your wife.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 10:24 AM, August 16th (Sunday)]

I also think it was a good beginning by her. I disagree with some of the others on key points. Here is where and why.

The part about almost breaking NC. The reason she gave ---

She knew it would be hurtful and sounded bad. She was self aware enough to recognize this and she told you that she knew it would sound bad and that it might make you hate her more. BUT SHE TOLD YOU ANYWAY. She was being truthful to her own potential detriment and what you really want from her is total honesty. How many people on here complain that all they get from their WS is lies or half truths as an attempt to manipulate. For your sake I hope she continues with honesty even if it is brutal because you want to base your actions and decisions on completely honest info from her.

The second thing is the comment about you not even being in the picture to her as she did what she did. That is a bulls eye for me. That is exactly how - psychologically - she could do it. Wall you off as if you didn't exist. How can a person do that about the spouse? Still beats the hell out of me after 30 years of thinking about it, but it is precisely what my W did.

Mine had dropped out of a professional graduate school program because she thought it was taking her too much away from our young daughter. She got depressed as a result and then decided that her life was boring and I didn't talk to her enough etc etc. she has told me -- she "just was wanting some excitement, some adventure" when former classmate OM came calling to see how she was doing. I also got the famous "I never meant to hurt you". I also got "I was sure you would never find out so you wouldn't be hurt". I was not part of the equation. Walled off. Mine wanted her adventure just as yours wanted her ego stroked. So they each simply took what they wanted and walled each of us, and their lives with us, off. Two separate realities co-existing.

I don't know how a WS can do it, but they do. And the fact that she says she did wall you off, to me, rings as totally true. It's good she has that much insight. What is critical now is that she figures out HOW she could allow herself to do/think like that and to correct that personality flaw so that it could never happen again.

So to me, what she has told you is a good start. Yes, only a few steps onto a very long road. But at least a few honest steps instead of steps on to trickle truth, half truth, manipulation road.

Hang in there.

Thank you Nekorb. You're right of course.

One thing I really like about SI, and hopefully you will see the advantage as well Walloped, is that we're not just talking to other men. The men can be saying, "the bitch cheated! divorce her!." Or the men can be flummoxed by a crying wife, and get sucked in. And then a BW chimes in and calls "Bullshit! Your wife is playing you."

It also helps to realize that just because your wife cheated on you, doesn't mean that it's a woman thing. It's easy to become bitter. There are good women out there who don't cheat. Just like there are good men.

What I'm saying Walloped, is if you're going to be judging your wife's actions and thoughts, I'd pay particular attention to the insight of women such as Nekorb. She's only posting on your thread for your benefit. Make sure you consider it.

[This message edited by mike7 at 10:41 AM, August 16th (Sunday)]

I read a long time ago that you should always have someone go with you to a doctor, especially if it was a serious illness, because it would be too much for you to take it all in and comprehend and understand it all. Same type of thing goes on with dealing with the affair, but theoretically you have more access to slow it down and talk longer with your wife and rehash it to comprehend and understand. Kids make it tough, but we used to do it after the kids were asleep.

Also, the importance I think so far with that little conversation is that your wife is just saying whatever to get her off the hook as easily as she can. Another thing I didn't post before, your wife enjoyed the sex, maybe that's not how it started, but other man pushed it into that and your wife was full steam ahead with that. It's not like your wife was dreading for the sex but she had to have the horrible sex so she could get her ego kibbles. She got the ego kibbles AND she loved the sex, too.

I don't know it's right to tell you stuff like this, because it took me a while to figure out some of that stuff, and it brought me right back to square one (well, maybe square two or square three, but still a big large few steps backward). I think it would have been better to have figured it out earlier on, but then again I was about to divorce, jumping at the bit really, so it may have pushed me over the edge if I had realized that earlier on.

Your wife wants this marriage to continue and she will say whatever she has to do so. She needs you financially and she has young kids still. She does not want people to know she is a cheater, not her family, not her friends. Plus she doesn't even have other man anymore. She is fighting for her life as she knows it, and your personal marriage with her is just a small part of that, it is much more about the big picture of her LIFESTYLE that would change including her kids, and her own reputation. To go from a charitable volunteer organizing with sick kids to going to a cheater liar homewrecker is quite a huge reversal, especially considering for the past five months has been the happiest of her life as she had found another true love of her life, getting fantastic sex, and having the same great lifestyle she always had.

She does not even consciously think about that what I posted above, but it is going on inside her head. Survival is not consciously thought about, like breathing. Regarding the affair and the reasons, why she did it, I don't think she will know that yet, and for her to try to give a reason means she is probably lying. It would be more honest if she says she doesn't know than to just come up with stuff she thinks you want to hear. Whatever it is, it's not some superficial reason like she was resentment. It is deep inside and is about how she thinks about herself, it is not about some external event like a resentment combined with getting hit on by another guy. It's like if you have a tire on your car that has no tread and it hits a pothole and blows out, goes flat. The tire was weak, the tread was no good, the pothole is the superficial event that resulted in a weakness that had already existed before the pothole was hit.

So she will say whatever she needs to make this right, and she won't easily say anything to jeopardize this reconciliation. Which is not the worst situation that you could be in. If the other man had really been single, and if he really did love your wife, she would be packing her stuff up (probably this very weekend) to move into other man's Upper West Side apartment, and she would be very excited and happy about it. Fortunately for you (and your kids), other man was a true POS snake. All of us here reconciled or reconciling are in the same "fortunate" "lucky" situation you are in, like I posted earlier, timing and lucky is part of any successful reconciliation.

So she will say whatever she needs to make this right, and she won't easily say anything to jeopardize this reconciliation. And this just will not do for reconciling. She needs to tell the truth and be honest, not be afraid. I openly told my wife that I would be fair in any financial or custody situation. I did not want to be involved if she didn't love me. You may need to do something along the lines to get her more safe to be truthful.

Regarding making NC a dealbreaker, that is fine, but I would say to keep that to yourself. You don't have to tell her what your dealbreakers are at this point. Number one, she will not tell you the truth because she knows it will be a dealbreaker. Number two, you will paint yourself in a corner, and limit your options. Don't limit your options. You can tell her you don't want her to break NC, but don't tell her it is a dealbreaker. If you tell her it is a dealbreaker, then she breaks NC, then you will have to divorce her. Maybe you will want to, but maybe you won't. But if you don't then, at that point you will lose respect, your words will become less meaning.

I used to sit by myself, after my wife and kids were asleep, and close my eyes and think about my wife's actions in the affair. I would picture me try to be her, picture her waking up in the morning, figure out step by step how she would go through her day. Listen to clock alarm. Get out of bed. Brush teeth, shower, dress. Get kids ready for school. Step by step. And I would think, what was she doing, and more important what was she thinking each of that step. It was quite an impact, thinking of her physical lies that she had to follow, how she had to physically set up communication with other man, not just mentally or verbally, but actually physically to be in a separate room, making sure I was out of sight. Did she take the wedding ring off? Did she groom herself special? Did she wear special lingerie? How did she physically do stuff to keep me in the dark? Did other man give her any gifts? Any special rituals about listening to music or some memento she kept? Cards? Yes to all.

What I realized is that this must have been exhausting to do all of these things. Yet my wife was not tired. I guess she was on the adrenaline of the excitement, the oxytocin or dopamine or whatever the drug or hormone.

Sorry your in this mate but I think your handling it well and getting good advice.

Just wanted to say in some ways your lucky a guy (stop laughing).

Say your brother hadn't seen them, how would things have gone.

Her getting more distant

sex decreasing

you not knowing what's going on

the we need some space talk

the ILYBINILWY talk

the divorce

then the kids tell you about mom's knew special friend who's so much fun.

Well you've missed all that if nothing else.

Or if you hadn't checked him out.

She loves her family so much she gives up her chance of lurv.

6, 12 or 18 months later he contacts her for a coffee and a chat and its game on again because she deservers it as reward for giving up so much for the family.

Like I said it could have been worse.

Good luck mate listen to the advice on here.

Fantastic post wk55hn

To go from a charitable volunteer organizing with sick kids to going to a cheater liar homewrecker is quite a huge reversal, especially considering for the past five months has been the happiest of her life as she had found another true love of her life, getting fantastic sex, and having the same great lifestyle she always had.

Nothing can get rid of those great memories. The best you can do is to irrevocably connect them to something extremely unpleasant. (i.e. Don’t let her compartmentalize the memories. We know that she has that ability).

You want to pollute the pure spring water of the affair with the truth about the POS/OM and the affair fallout so that it’s unfit to drink and will make her sick.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 1:28 PM, August 16th (Sunday)]

W

I just want to say it again, as have others, HER AFFAIR IS NOT YUR FALULS, it is 100% on her.

Affairs are not consecuences are choises. No matter how wrong (to her eyes) your marriage were before her affair.

The pre affair marrital probelms are 50% on you but let me tell yiou something.

In orther to have an affair, WS do something called ratianalizacion, it is that in orther to justify the affair to her self, the WW rewrite, at least how she felt, parts of her marriage to have a reazon to cheat. Remember taht nobody thinks at his self as a people able to cause so much pain.

Whe she says that your were the excuse to her affair she is ratianalizating to fiond an explanation, IMO this is BS as there are so mamy ways that you can estress when you dont like your marriage. One thing she was rigth, you were a excuse, because xcuses are bnot justifycations. She did it because she wanted period.

Again THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

One good point is that she is trying, at leat, to be honest. Remeber her that TT could do much more damage than the affair it self.

Good luck

Uggggggg wk55. Your posts are so insightful and spot on. And triggery. Crazy that I'm still peeling back the layers after an entire year. Mother fucker (WH not you).

W - you're doing great. Continue to pace yourself. I think one of the most painful results of this type of betrayal is the damage that is done to the trust. In the beginning, you DO want to believe everything they say. But that voice in your head grows increasing louder and more insistent that this person is a LIAR. And a GOOD liar. And you go down this rabbit hole where you realize that you can't really trust anything they say and you learn just how dangerous they can be to your psyche. And part of that danger is that they can't even trust themselves. And it's really just sad. The one and only person that ever promised to not betray you actually betrayed you in a deeper way than you ever could have imagined. Ok obviously I'm blabbing on about my own situation. Nevertheless, remember: pace yourself, watch your back, it's called a roller coaster for a reason, and trust that, as sad as it is, the anonymous community of SI is safer for you than your spouse right now.

posted wrongly will re post tnx

[This message edited by Skapie at 4:15 PM, August 26th (Wednesday)]

W,

read veru carefully the fillowing quote

If the other man had really been single, and if he really did love your wife, she would be packing her stuff up (probably this very weekend) to move into other man's Upper West Side apartment, and she would be very excited and happy about it.

you shoukd reakly ask her what woukd had happened if Mr charming were for real, willing to meet her kids. IMO the answer to that questuon was already answered with her bahavior the first days until she so the pain sge put you. then came the guilt and the greave of your M and OM, I believe she still is.

Ask your self if you are willing to be plan B if R.

if R she needs alor to prove

Walloped, I hope you are having a good day. Just wanted to offer a word of encouragement. It sounds to me like your wife tried to open up and share some very tough truths with you. At times I think we are too quick to rip apart the words an phrasing. I mean, does anyone really think she was saying it would have been okay to rip her family apart if the OM's words to her had been true? Of course not.

I also think it means something that she confessed that she almost broke NC.

And, obviously you were not absent from her life and her thoughts while she was involved in betraying you. She obviously meant she just did not consider you while it was going on. That's not easy to hear for you and I'm sure it wasn't easy to say for her, but it does have the ring of truth.

No doubt your wife has a long way to go, and while the BS surely needs to keep his guard up, I do think there should be some room for hope when the WS makes an attempt to do the right thing. It seems your wife tried to do the right thing with that conversation, and, though you would do well to proceed with caution, I don't see evil, selfish intent in her words.

My grandpa used to have a saying: "Son, there's not a snake in every wood pile. Sometimes it's just a wood pile."

God bless you and your family. I hope you gain peace and strength with each passing day.

Walloped,

Lots of good advice today, but I particularly want to reiterate some things that 1985 and nekorb said. I think your WW has made a good start. Some don't ever get to this point. They spend ages pining after OM, mourning that lost love, the happiness she was forced to give up. Right now she's caught up in the regret and shame, and she has to get past that. She has to own up to what she did and realize the hard work that it's going to take on her part to put your M back together. And when she does get to that point, there's a good chance for your WW to find her remorse. When she's done feeling sorry for herself. Not today. It's going to take some time in counseling probably, to get to the bottom of her problems. And hopefully your give-a-shit isn't totally worn out by then.

she "blamed" me or resented me or whatever to convince herself this was okay.

Not to generalize, but I've heard this over and over (and lived it). I think that's very common for the WS. It makes them feel better about themselves and their choices. I know my WW had a whole story about what a horrible abusive monster I was and how she had no choice but to go find a little comfort and happiness. She told herself that for so long, she still believes it to this day. It made her feel like she wasn't the horrible person for cheating, I was for forcing her to.

I think you're doing great so far. You have your head on pretty straight, for it being so early in this journey.

let's not be too negative ok?

I don’t know how much to believe. She apologized over and over and over again. She loves me. I asked her if she was leaving me for him. She panicked when I said that and swore up and down that she didn’t love him, she doesn’t know why she did this. She loves me. She wants to be with me. Lots and lots of tears. It was sometime hard to get coherent sentences from her. She kept mumbling how she can’t believe this is happening. That her life was over. Her life? How dare she cry about this now!

This was Walloped's second post. It was before he and his wife found out that the OM was lying. It was after the OM had asked his wife to leave Walloped and run away with him. Which she declined to do.

So all these assertions that W's wife would have left him if the OM was really in love with her are wrong.

It's great to try and read the tea leaves and speculate what she's up to. But it's wrong to unfairly characterize her. It paints too negative of a picture. Walloped is dealing with enough now without having to read that.

Walloped

A lot has been said about NC with OM, but I have not see much or anything about one other tidbit I think you might need to look out for.

If you wife and this OM were publicly wandering around the streets holding hands like the lovebirds she thought they were, it is highly unlikely that no one in these volunteer groups did not see or notice their "closeness" .

I am sure if she was volunteering at these places for any amount of time that she made some female acquaintances or friends, if you want to call them that. You need to be aware that your wife may have had a little encouragement from her "friends" who probably thought this fellow was the cat" meow.

And if by any chance that was the case, it is totally not beyond the realm of possibility that one of these people might put OM in touch with your wife either on purpose or inadvertently if any of them know how to reach her. So I hope you are keeping close eye on the phone bill to see if ANY numbers pop up or texts that do not have to be OM to be something not too good.

If OM got one of these other women to call your wife, I would not bet she would not talk to him. And you would get the excuse that your wife did not initiate the conversation and just happened to answer her phone. So i would ask your wife if she has been in communication with ANY of her friends from these places.

We can agree to disagree here on how "great" she is doing so far ( and I don't think she is doing so stupendously), but I would not bet that if she has given a girlfriend her new number and he called that your wife would hang up on him immediately. And your wife might not even think giving ANY of these people her new number is really wrong since they are not OM>

If you guys don't think SIL told her that she told Whallup about the NC break attempt then I have some ice to sell you at the North Pole

I also think it means something that she confessed that she almost broke NC.

Sure it does. It means she knew her sister had already told Walloped, so she'd better come clean.

Standard don't confess to anything until you have to. Wayward 101.

Look, I'm all about R with a remorseful WS. She isn't there yet. Hoping she gets there, she IS doing a lot of work, but...

That was TT, not remorse.

In my opinion, that is.

Be patient Walloped. If your wife is truly "doing the work", and it seems she is, she will hopefully get to the point of true remorse.

*******"Very often we don’t go elsewhere because we are looking for another person. We go elsewhere because we are looking for another self. It isn’t so much that we want to leave the person we are with as we want to leave the person we have become."

by Esther Perel **********

I think this is so true..So resonates with me..Sometimes I feel this everyday...

Within happy marriages IMHO the partners are self sufficient in getting many needs met..Come to their partners for affection,conversation, fun and support..

Best friends, relatives, spouses are not responsible for the heavy lifting it takes to prop up another adult person's self esteem...They simply don't have the energy long term...

It is up to each person to dive in and make effort to help him or herself..Do all of the reading, take in all of the teachings, participate in exercises, embark on the positive experiences that help him or her to look after oneself and any kiddos...

I think it is wrong to blame a partner/relationship for one's own shortcomings and weaknesses...It takes time and effort to invest in oneself in a way that pays off...To enhance one's own life, and the lives of his or her loved ones...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 5:36 PM, August 16th (Sunday)]

Whew! My head is spinning from this thread now... R or D? Remorse or Regret? R or D? Remorse or regret? Dang...

As opposed to my usually verbose posts, two things quickly come to mind. First (and this is re-quote; don't remember who said it here but it stuck with me)... Evil must be justified by the perpetrator, or their minds implode. That's what all waywards do in the midst of their affairs. It's human nature, actually.

Second, whatever happens, W, this is going to play out over whatever timetable you need and with whatever information you gotta have. She may show PERFECT remorse, and you may still decide that you just can't get over it. As opposed to the shit that went on behind your back while the affair was happening, you call the shots now.

So, taking care of yourself and your healing remains your paramount task. Stay sane in the short term, and be patient, resolute, and gentle with yourself as the roller coaster whips you around for a while.

Blessings, LA