SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Your wife's affair was not that long, there have been far worse. Your wife has been honest sort of, has she told you the details you need at this time?

She seems to be very sorry and remorseful.

All of those are good points for R.

BUT...there are things you might never be able to get over, that is the bottom line. She had sex with some other guy.

But didn't your wife have sex with other guys before marrying you? Most likely yes. And I write that meaning, she is not used up.

BUT...not while married to you. And the lying. Many times it is the lying, the actual deception that is harder to get over than the sex.

It comes down to the fact she lied, cheated and deceived you to have sex with some other guy. And those are things that are damn hard for any guy. And some do not get over it.

No shame in that. She did it, and you will not live with it.

As for her friends and their dumb stunt, I guess that is a non-issue, though why your wife did not reply to your repeated texts that night is another problem. Once again it shows game playing, and I dont think you are a game player.

You are not in the mood for anymore games to say the least.

Has your wife answered the WHY question, why she did this?

Spaceghost,

my advice is not to take the "R-at-all-costs" crew's advice to jump into R.

She has never shown remorse, so you have no way to know that she is remorseful, all you really know is that she is sorry she got caught and that her life has changed for the worse.

The only time she had a chance to show you something she blew it. Oh, I know, she and her friends are blaming it all on her friends' stupid plan, but still...

She's witholding information from you because she thinks it would ruin her chances to R, that is not being remorseful.

The day she will be doing something to help you heal or to make amends for what she has done, regardless of what it does to her chances to R, THEN you will know that she is remorseful.

If you should ever consider R it shouldn't happen before witnessing something like that, IMO.

SpaceGhost,

I agree with Italianjob, and can't believe after all you have stated from the very beginning that you are still getting reconciliation advice or advice to consider it. You have not asked for that at this point.

Your thread probably has either set a record or close to it for responses because unlike most your thread contained a clear course of action you had decided on prior to posting and it struck a chord with so many who wished they could have been as decisive. The inner strength you displayed in living with the situation for i think over a month as if nothing was wrong took a determination that I also think most of us were in awe of. i know if i knew what you knew I could never have remained calm enough to sit in it for that long.

Most of us I think assume that when we say our vows that infidelity will e a deal breaker. I do not think most of us sit down with our spouses, explain their family history and feelings as clearly as you did because it is a very difficult thing to talk about.

But you did it. Your wife knew in no uncertain terms what your position was on this but it did not stop her. We do not know a lot of details but if she was having sex with him for three months, it is not likely that out of the clear blue they decided on a Friday afternoon to run out of town. There was probably an EA going on long before you had any suspicion since they were at work all day together. And it is highly unlkely that her OM would be telling her loved her over a few romps in the hay so maybe she still loved you but she had feelings for him to put it all on the line.

SG, you also had MORE than one D Day. You caught them out of town, then found the lingerie, and then multiple times gave your wife the opportunity to come clean. And you had a VAR in her car so my guess is you heard a lot more than you have shared about more meetings that just when you were gone.

NONE OF THAT MATTERS NOW. the date thing was a stupid stunt, and probably did come from her idiot friends. but her idiot friends did NOT lead her to divorce. She led herself there and she deserves the consequences.

I also hope a lesson is learned for any newbies still lurking but who have read your thread.

Even when they can afford it too many refuse to hire a PI like you did. If you had not, who knows how long you would have been in limbo land chasing the truth. So congratulations on that decision and having the courage to not be paralyzed in denial.

Good luck Space Ghost. There is no doubt you will find happiness. You are an honorable man and deserve much better than what you got. i am sure the overwhelming number of people who have followed your story are confident you will find happiness.

Best wishes.

very good post by Nononsense. I agree completely.

I would disagree with Craig in that to SG, it was the sex that was the deal breaker, more than the lying. It would be for me as well which is why I can relate to SG

Me three on sex being a huge issue. Physical intamacy is my love language. to me the act of making love is so much more. for my wife to have sex with another man to me it means she wants to and is willing to carry that mans child. There is nothing that says more to me "I do not love you any more" She would be contaminated to me.

[This message edited by DivinelyFavored at 6:46 PM, March 17th (Tuesday)]

Frankly I’m surprised at the dismissive replies for Craig’s post. Keeping in mind he’s a member since 2002 with +5000 posts and the respectable member number of 55…

Also considering he doesn’t once tell SG to reconcile or divorce. He simply outlines some things for SG to consider. Maybe – because like me (another old-timer) – he sees some contradictions in what SG posts, does and acts on.

SG will do what he thinks best – be it divorce or reconcile. For him both options are open IF HE WANTS THAT.

He doesn’t HAVE to. But he can CHOOSE to.

SG – Your e-mail is very emotional.

If you are determined to divorce then detach – including the emotions.

Accept that it’s very unlikely you will ever get the “why”.

Do the divorce in as amicable and fair way as you can – a couple of years from now you will be grateful for that.

(edited to add: post no. 666 on this thread... coincidence? )

[This message edited by Bigger at 6:27 PM, March 17th (Tuesday)]

my advice is not to take the "R-at-all-costs" crew's advice to jump into R.

I haven't seen any advice to reconcile "at all costs" on this thread. Does your opinion put you in the "divorce at all costs" crew?

Quite frankly, this is an advice forum. If Spaceghost only wanted divorce advice, he'd likely have moved to the divorce forum by now. Further, Craig's advice takes both sides of the issue. I'm amused at how many of pro-divorce posters on this board bristle at the very mention of reconciliation. What I don't see is the people who are pro-reconciliation getting pissed every time someone mentions divorce.

Spaceghost is getting advice from people with differing perspectives. He says repeatedly that he is open to all points of views. In fact, in his last post he asked for conflicting viewpoints if anyone had any. He's not getting pissed about anyone offering a differing point of view from his own. The attempts by those of you who don't agree that he is entitled to ALL points of view to shut down anyone who doesn't agree with YOUR point of view are not helpful to him and they aren't helpful to any of those going through it who may be reading Spaceghosts posts for advice on their own situations. No matter what anyone posts on this thread, Spaceghost is going to do what he feels is best for him.

In the 10 years I've been here, I've seen a few people come on this board dead set on divorce only to decide to reconcile later. I've also seen many who believe they will reconcile go on to divorce. There is no wrong way to work through this. It's emotionally charged for all parties and EVERYONE posting is entitled to his or her own perspective and opinion. There's no need to post about your incredulity every single time the R word is mentioned. In fact, the constant posts about it are distracting from the real point of this thread which is helping Spaceghost by giving him all perspectives (which is exactly what he's asked for repeatedly).

"R-at-all-costs" crew

If you find these people, could you please point them out?

SG,

No one can tell you what to choose. That is on you, and you alone.

I agree with happyman, deal with her now, so that she doesn't show up at your doorstep.

Sounds like you're wallowing a little bit. Get yourself some space, get back to where you were a couple weeks ago. It's important for you to be a rock for your daughter. She needs you more than ever.

SG clearly said that it was the sex with another man which was a deal breaker. Because of this, he hired a PI, got evidence, filed for divorce and moved to Florida. Sure he was frustrated over the lying but has made it clear as day that it was over for him once she had sex with another man. I strongly believe his actions reflected strong decisiveness in supporting his view on this and his headed towards divorce.

Now have there been a few mixed signals ?? Yes. As I stated in one of my posts, I thought so.

However, I stand strongly behind my assertion that the sex was the fatal blow in this relationship based on the fact that he said it was, based on his actions which strongly supported his stance and based on the fact that he keeps going back to that viewpoint in his arguments.

I fully support Italianjob and Nononsense in their analysis.

there is no R at all costs crew. there's a divorce at all costs crew.

I fully support Italianjob and Nononsense in their analysis.

No one is arguing their analysis. Spaceghost has said that he feels his wife's affair is a deal breaker. He is entitled to believe that and he will not be wrong if he chooses to divorce her. The issue I have is the constant disparaging of anyone who offers a perspective from a reconciliation point of view. He asked for varying perspectives and he's getting them. He has expressed appreciation for that.

Is his wife remorseful? I don't know. From my perspective, her behavior of late indicates that she is regretful more than remorseful. And if that's the case, I wouldn't recommend reconciliation. However, given the mixed signals Spaceghost has sent (texting repeatedly and getting angry at the possibility that she may be dating along with continuing to press for information), he may not be as ready to jump straight to divorce as he believes he is. No matter how tainted he now believes his wife may be, they have a family and he wouldn't be so devastated if he didn't love her.

So, in the interest of helping Spaceghost, how about we focus on giving him advice without disparaging those who give it? The focus on what advice we should be giving is taking the focus off actually giving it. Spaceghost is an intelligent man. He's more than capable of weeding out the advice he needs without having to sort through all the arguments about what should and shouldn't be said. If you think he should get a divorce, good for you. If you think he should reconcile, good for you. If you think he should wait and play a little more golf, good for you. Now that we've got that out of the way, can we let him focus on what's good for him?

I am deeply concerned at the 'crew' who continue to disparage anybody who holds different views to them. I worry that 'they' project onto Space Ghost a desire for hardline action that 'they' did not take themselves, and that there is a vicarious aspect to their 'care' for Space Ghost. It is clear that Space Ghost's reactions were fast, decisive and knee jerk. That is not to criticise them, only to say that they were reactive, and not responsive. He nevertheless evinced greater compassion and care for his WS than some would allow here, acting punitively only in the matter of serving WS d papers publicly at work and how the children were informed. (Which passed on pain from a previous generation to the next).

Truth and reconciliation is a path that some countries have chosen to deal with and begin to heal their past. And Space Ghost needs to deal with some ghosts in his past. His WS is not his mother and vice versa.

I contend that support for Space Ghost means actually listening to him. Really listening. And not projecting your own stuff.

[This message edited by Edie at 3:37 AM, March 18th (Wednesday)]

Spaceghost has

1) Avoided dealing with individuals point by point for the most part here but instead has IMO carefully sifted through the information and has implemented what works best for him.

2) Spaceghost has been through a horrible life changing event. He has made a decisive decision and people here shouldn't be ridiculed for supporting his decision, which many believe is supporting him.

3) I would agree and have before that he needs to hear things from all angles. However, some here who do argue for R (whether right or wrong in this case and only SG knows and I believe he has made that decision already) have insinuated or flat out said that he was being knee jerk, or somehow his supporters were projecting their own feelings. I would argue that some here who have gone through successful R have been projecting their own views to SG as well, even though they deviate from what he has decided to do. IN OTHER WORDS, when one side of this opinion decides to share their thoughts, it's to help SG but when the other side does the same, they are on some type of bandwagon. I strongly disagree with this notion and I also believe that such thoughts stifle people's willingness to share their opinions from their own perspective and experience and that is unhealthy.

4) It has also been suggested that others suggest a hardline action from SG that they wouldn't do themselves. But many have conducted a hardline action and many others who didn't wish they had and has offered support for him

If it is to be argued that SG needs to hear things from all perspectives, I would agree. However, the 'disparaging' has occurred from both sides on this thread.

Now I will give you my opinion.

I believe SG has made decisive action which I completely respect. I think it's admirable. He has come on here willing to listen to all sides of the argument but has been on one side completely and throughout. I believe that my way of supporting him is to tell him that there is nothing wrong with the actions he has taken and that pushing him in another direction, which the actions of his WW have shown is not in his best interests IMO, would be counterproductive and would only stir the pot more and potentially confuse him.

Both sides on this board have been heard. SG has made his decision. I think it's great that he has so much support for that decision but has gotten sound advice from all angles

I agree with Western

and I am a pro R guy ---trying it myself

every person has different deal breakers and Spaceghost has his deal breaker.

and every person handles them differently.

some have even tried R after Divorce and I see nothing wrong with doing it this way and could possibly even result in a better outcome because it shows there was/is consequences.

[This message edited by convert at 8:50 AM, March 18th (Wednesday)]

there is no R at all costs crew.

I haven't seen any advice to reconcile "at all costs" on this thread.

You must not have read it very carefully then, on page 27 a poster went as far as calling the OP "pathetic" for not trying to R...

Look I don't believe in a one-size-fits-all solution to infidelity, sometimes I would advise D, sometimes R might be better, it depends on the circumstances.

There were 3 or 4 posters advising to take R into consideration, and I simply advised not to take that advice, because actually nothing has changed from what SG has repeatedly called a deal breaker situation.

The only circumstance in which his wife could really show something instead of just words has been blown, so there is nothing new that would call for a change of route. So my advice is to keep this route and not change it unless he sees something real, and then only if he wants too.

As another poster noted, just like I did:

Is his wife remorseful? I don't know. From my perspective, her behavior of late indicates that she is regretful more than remorseful.

That's all.

I contend that support for Space Ghost means actually listening to him. Really listening. And not projecting your own stuff.

I think I'm really listening, there are a lot of people projecting on this thread but I'm not one of them...

Keeping in mind he’s a member since 2002 with +5000 posts and the respectable member number of 55…

Sorry, but I don't believe in hierarchy among posters on a public forum, If I don't agree I will state so, even if the poster was here since the age of dinosaurs...

[This message edited by italianjob at 9:41 AM, March 18th (Wednesday)]

The remorseful/regretful point is very very important in this case, IMO.

Trying to R with a spouse that is not remorseful has a very high risk of sliding into Rug sweeping, opening the door to more betrayals.

That is always heartbreaking but in SG's case, a false R would devastate him even more than most people, because of his history.

That's why, IMO, he should keep his current route right now. If his wife is really remorseful he'll have time to reconsider if he should find out that that's what he really wants.

WOW.....this thread was an adventure.

I too look at my wife now as damaged goods.

I have a tendency to treat her like I would any other groupie that ive met during the course of my life. I have a basic, "just shut up and blow me" attitude towards her.

Its not always like that, but thats the general malaise. Im pretty certain this is what you are trying to avoid and I can understand that. This shit sux.

Im pretty sure my wife doesnt want me to think of her like that, but thats where she is in my mind. ( not necessarily my heart) I figure,thats where she wanted to be.That is to say, she knew her actions would make me feel this way about her. She must have wanted that, in some wierd way. If that wasnt what she wanted, she wouldnt have acted like a groupie whore in the first place. anyway.........

I dont have any good advice for ya....but I do want to say, Im impressed with your conviction SG. Truly inspiring. I really hope you find true happiness sir. Wherever, and with whomever....you deserve it. We all deserve it. Hats off to you. Sending you strength and well wishes. May your swing be strong, and the wind in your favor

typically it takes quite a while before they reach remorse. it doesn't happen quickly. So don't expect it quickly. it appears to me that SG's wife will reach it. She clearly wants him. if SG has any doubts because of that, he should wait about six months. If SG has no doubts that this is a deal-breaker for him, he needs to pull the trigger. it doesn't matter if she's remorseful if he doesn't want her anymore.

its a sad story, but if she wanted to stay married, she shouldn't have cheated. still, I feel compassion for her. it sounds like she will be devastated. the worst pains are the ones we cause ourselves.