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Quick recap, DD was Aug of 2022. During his A he brought home a metal water bottle. At the time I knew something was up, just not sure what yet. Questioned him about metal water bottle - we had glass reusables at home which he never used. Claimed he bought it, just know, that is something he’d never do. He used it everyday. Still does/did. We had a come to Jesus the other night, it was rough, but I thought maybe this is the straw that we needed to break. I even mentioned the water bottle and how I make up stories in my head about what could be going on….. Three days after that night, I noticed the water bottle has disappeared. Thinking it got left at work, I’ll wait a few days.

In December I had found a gift bag in our pile that had a tag on it to my H from "his work wife". I asked him about it he said it wasn’t from her, he didn’t know where it came from. I cried and begged for the truth and asked him if she gave him a gift, he said no.

Tonight, as I’m telling him how I’m feeling, trying to come back from our chat the other night. I ask him about the water bottle. Yes it is from her. He lied to me in December about a gift from her. Says he didn’t think anything of it, it’s a water bottle. I’m saying it’s a gift from her that you kept. He also kept some candles that she had made him, but did throw them away eventually, sneakily.

I am so sad I don’t know what to do.

I was in a relationship before my wife (is that an "old flame"?). I don't miss her, want her, regret the choice I made. But on the rare occasion I think of her, I think of her fondly.

My wife might not want to hear that. She might say, "Stop that! Stop thinking of her fondly!"

I don’t think I could do it.

And, because your post has forced me to think about it, my guess is that my WW thinks of her AP fondly. She also kept a gift from him for a while.

Oh well, it is what it is. I'm not going to insist that she not think of him fondly.

An important question for me is, has my WW recommitted to "us"? Can I count on her being my life partner? Is she "safe"?

I believe she regrets the cheating. Whatever she thinks of him.

P.S. I greatly appreciate that fond thoughts of someone prior to "us" is very different than fond thoughts of someone during "us."

[This message edited by Formerpeopleperson at 2:31 PM, Saturday, March 29th]

Thank you for the reply FormerPeoplePerson. I understand what you’re saying. The part I’m really struggling with is that he is still lying to me. I begged him for the truth about the gift bag in December. I asked him if she gave him a gift then, and he said no.

I asked him the other day after this huge discussion we had a few days prior, if he had anything he wanted to tell me, any truths that he hadn’t told me yet. I reminded him that the lies hurt more than the truth. And he said no. Last night as we were talking, I asked (me crying and begging for the truth again), is the water bottle from her. Yes he says. I had given him the opportunity for the truth, he still hadn't come clean. He claims he’s tired of hurting me, but the lies are more hurtful. I asked him if he gave her a gift during their year and half long affair, he said no. I said that doesn’t make sense to me. She made you a bunch of candles and bought you a $30-40 water bottle and you don’t get her anything…. Then he said he bought her lunch.

I know it’s a water bottle, but it’s more about the lies. And, it’s a constant reminder of his affair. How can he not think about it when he’s drinking from that GIFT FROM HER every single day. And I feel like it is a slap in the face to me.

Thanks for listening.

Was he thinking about her when he used the water bottle? Yup. Probably fondly.

Was it stupid for him to keep the water bottle, and to lie about it? Yup.

But, IMPORTANT, none of that was a slap in your face. That’s what you have to get your head around.

So he is still lying to protect himself. Over something as stupid as a water bottle.

Does he still work with the AP?

The part I’m really struggling with is that he is still lying to me.

That's the part that jumped out at me.

Says he didn’t think anything of it, it’s a water bottle.

He thought enough about it to lie.

My reco is to work on yourself. IMO, begging for the truth implies you are not really taking his lying into account. To me, begging tells him you want the truth, maybe, but there won't be harsh consequences for lying.

I think I'd end my M if my W lied again. She has told the truth, I believe, since the moment she revealed her A o14+ years ago, so I haven't had to face the decision. IOW, I know it's difficult to end an M over a lie, but you need to make decisions based on your sepcific sitch.

IMO, you don't have a chance in a million to end the TT unless you you're willing to kick your WS out if he tells more lies.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:05 PM, Saturday, March 29th]

In my opinion it’s not the affair that kills the marriage.

It’s the behavior after the affair that kills the marriage.

I wonder if Possumlover is troubled by the lie, or the truth.

I wonder if Possumlover is troubled by the lie, or the truth.

A cursory reading of her posts makes it clear that the answer is both.

In betrayal, the truth of the past is abhorrent. The lies in the present are unconscionable. The future holds misery if these are ignored and accepted.

Throw that water bottle away and don’t feel an ounce of guilt about it.

I purged everything that was an affair remnant, no matter how big or small. You deserve peace, and reminders in your face all the time are painful. If he throws a fit about it, that’s a giant red flag that he’s not currently R material.

Set boundaries about lies, but mean them before you set them. Don’t set a boundary that you’re not willing to defend.

I am sorry he is still lying. That does so much damage. The fact that you asked and he denied so many times concerns me that he does not understand what safety looks like for you in a relationship. Yeah it would have sucked to hear yes she gave me this water bottle as a gift, but to lie and use it, sends a huge red flag up for me. Honesty about the gift could have been a conversation, in my opinion, that could have brought you closer. Lying/ being sneaky will NEVER bring healing or true closeness to a relationship. I am sorry he is doing this.

I think my husband and I are in a pretty good place 36 years out from the A and 7 years out from his discovery that I had minimized it in my original confession. However, one of his absolute non-negotiables was that I disclose and discard all mementos of the affair. If it were to come to light that I've been hiding some gift or talisman, especially one that he had asked about and I lied, that could absolutely be the end of us. His hill to die on wouldn't be a water bottle. It would be the discovery that after all the work he put into rebuilding our marriage, I still didn't acknowledge his right to the truth. That's the foundation on which everything else is built: understanding the betrayed's agency and handing the power back to them.

I'm reading this and my take is it not the water bottle, it his not being willing to give up a gift from AP and lying about it.

Every time he touches it, fills it, uses it - he's thinking of AP. Every time he lied to Possumlover about it he's protecting AP.

That water bottle represents an attachment he still has with her. And thus, the water bottle has to go.

Now me, I'd shoot that sucker full of holes, then throw it in the trash [doesn't even deserve to be recycled] while dusting off my hands triumphantly. And I'd have WH watch.

Better yet - I'd have him shoot it full of holes himself while I watched and make him toss it. Any reluctance would tell me everything I need to know. And may God Have Mercy on his Soul should one tear fall while he is doing so.

I'm also giving myself major points for not whacking anyone upside the head with said water bottle [full for maximum impact]