Topic is Sleeping.
1345Marine (original poster member #71646) posted at 12:51 AM on Monday, September 25th, 2023
So it started innocently enough. I was simply looking up how Life360 works because I think it may help me find some level of security with WW on a practical level, and we're also having some issues with teenage children where I feel like it could be helpful. I googled it, and one of the top three results was from some website called Medium and it was about "how to avoid life360 hell" or something like that. The article was a WW who was advising other Waywards to throw a fit and ensure that their family doesn't get this app and giving advice on how to cheat around it if you do have it. That led me down this rabbit hole and reading all the people celebrating their adultery and giving tips on how to deceive the betrayed. It's heartbreaking. Devastating. And I guess the hard part is knowing that, at least at some point, my wife was in that mindset to some degree (even if she wouldn't celebrate it). But then trying to gauge where we are now, it's not very helpful to read others who are in "reconciliation" but celebrating on online forums how they are able to continue deceiving the BS by being so convincing in their sincerity and adamant in their devotion to fixing what they broke with their BS (to their face), while secretly living a double life. Is that my spouse? Who knows? The point is that the betrayed living THAT hell that these remorseless waywards are describing don't seem to realize their in it too. And it's plainly evident that my wife was able to pull the wool over my eyes for a long time, and she's done the very things their describing with the pleading and tears in her eyes and impassioned assurances that it's only me and no one else, all while her life revolved around her love and romance with another man. So.... reading stories of others doing it, and knowing my wife HAS done it to me, and knowing that by definition I can't really know if it's happening to me now if it is. This infidelity shit sucks. It just feels hopeless. It's unsettling to realize how easily you've been fooled and really, truly remember and face it and think "it could happen again". I'd avoided pro adultery stuff intentionally ever since this hell started on DDay, but for some reason I thought I was strong enough to step into the minds of remorseless waywards and try to understand or gain some insight. I am not. That's a cesspool I'd advise every BS to avoid at all costs.
Shehawk ( member #68741) posted at 1:10 AM on Monday, September 25th, 2023
"That's a cesspool I'd advise every BS to avoid at all costs."
I can’t say I disagree.
I look at the world very differently now knowing first-hand that there are entitled spouses with no conscious who think it is ok to risk their H or W’s physical, sexual, and emotional health cheating and even view it almost as a game.
(While being supported by people I call affair supporters.)
This was so damaging and inconceivable to me that it blindsided me.
People with active cheater mindsets do not have values that align with me so I avoid them even in friends. I find them to be dangerous to my well being.
"It's a slow fade...when you give yourself away" so don't do it!
SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 1:35 AM on Monday, September 25th, 2023
You can't ever know that your WS - or anyone, really - is telling you the truth. When we were early in R, my H would say things like, "You know I'd never do that to you again, right?" And my answer was, and still is, "No, but I believe that you won't." I won't ever profess to know anyone else' mind and heart ever again. I choose to believe based on what I see and hear and feel, and if I get screwed over again, I'll deal with it then. I think you have to adopt that sort of mindset in order to R.
And yeah, screw those who enable infidelity. There's a special place in hell for them.
[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 1:35 AM, Monday, September 25th]
Let the world feel the weight of who you are and let them deal with it.
HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 1:44 AM on Monday, September 25th, 2023
It’s just a reality. Some people love cheating. Some believe it makes them a better spouse and it’s harmless. Hell I just found a book called the 50 mile rule that was written specifically for women to have affairs and not get caught. (50 miles is how far away the AP should be from you). People love the taboo and illicit.
I personally think it’s better to face the reality. I’ve also learned a lot from those communities. Those who celebrate it will never change. No consequences, no reason, nothing will ever get through to them. They will burn their families down and then blame everyone else (Especially OBS) for the damage they’ve caused. Some people will never not believe they are victims.
What does it mean for you though? Could your wife be faking this all? Yes, it’s possible. What you will do though is murder yourself worrying about it. It’s the price we pay for R. It’s a risk taken. It’s why a lot of people don’t R, because they can’t stand the idea that it’s not authentic, even if the WS is trying to show they are.
What I have seen/read though is that the WS who actually shows remorse isn’t celebrating their affair. I think a lot of those BSs who are in false R as you described know they are, and there is a lot of rugsweeping and head in the sand. I mean if my WW gave any protests to sharing her location post Dday, then I know she is hiding something. My first dday she did just that, and she was. So I am betting most of those BSs are well aware it’s not real they just don’t want to admit it. (Not blaming them at all I did it myself, only pointing out the difference). For sure, there are some who can do full confession and not rugsweep and everything, and still cheat again. Those are a different breed, and are way more signs of their complete lack of empathy.
Feelings aren’t facts. Affairs make people do horrible things for fake feelings. You know her best, you can decide if she’s being authentic (though I am shocked that you’re not location sharing already, that would be a dealbreaker for me instantly) and if she is able to hold herself accountable and work on being better. She may, she may not.
Me mid 40s BH
Her mid 40s WW
1 year EA/PA
"Just" a friend.
in R, getting by
The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 11:57 AM on Monday, September 25th, 2023
I am so sorry for your pain from your cheater and the stuff you read.
In essence some people just plain stink!!!
And yes I was in false Reconciliation for months. I’m working my butt off to R and my H’s doing nothing but cheating.
Here is what I learned from this last shitshow he put me in.
I can only rely on myself 100%.
I can only trust myself.
With that I made changes in my life that work for me. I am in this marriage as long as it works for me. I am in every relationship as long as it works for me. If it becomes too complicated or ugly, I take that as a sign to re-evaluate and reconsider my decision to remain in the relationship.
I no longer accept abuse or drama. I left my church after 25 years due to the senior pastor and her shenanigans. I left my toxic toxic job after 13 years due to my boss and his rage filled rants at his staff.
I think you see that no app or boundary is foolproof or will give you the security you need. If they want to cheat they will find a way to cheat. That’s reality.
What I can tell you is that the cheater’s actions will always trump their words. No one is that good of an actor that they can keep up the lies and charade if their heart is not really in the marriage. Cracks will start to show. You will see signs or suspicious activity after awhile.
I stopped putting all my energy into my marriage after my H planned to D me. I put more energy into me now.
Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.
Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 4:27 PM on Monday, September 25th, 2023
One thing that I try to express on the wayward forum to those brave enough to come here, is that having to live your whole life where you are presenting a different face to people is fucking exhausting and many people don't even realize it.
You are in constant fear of letting your phone out of sight because your BS might see a message from your AP. I just listened to a woman on TikTok, yeah I follow some infidelity recovery accounts there, about just how attached to his phone her WH had become, to the point where he was using WhatsApp, but he would delete and install the app everyday just to talk to his AP. Like WTF? Who in the hell has time for that shit? If you have that much time to devote to your affair, you have that much time to fixing your shit and living a more authentic marriage or at the very least, a more meaningful life as a single person.
I don't celebrate my infidelity, but I also don't run from it. It is now interwoven into the story of who I am at a personal level, but also as a narrative that I will share with people when I feel it is appropriate. Overall, I don't have to be a different person at work, at home, in public, in private, because I can now just be who I am at all times and not having to worry about what other people think, because part of my people pleasing ways were putting on a show for everyone else. I'm totally done with that shit.
Myself - BH & WH - Born 1985 Her - BW & WW - Born 1986
D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020
MintChocChip ( member #83762) posted at 5:54 PM on Monday, September 25th, 2023
I feel like I have an almost PhD in infidelity now. I've read over 1000 threads here over years. Read every book. Did a course. Spoke to IC's. My "method" for tackling anything in life is to understand it.
I have come across very few cheaters that are these cliches or say these cliched things. More often than not they are just human beings being selfish and unconcerned with the casualties.
I would ignore this stuff :)
D Day: September 2020Currently separated
InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 6:23 PM on Monday, September 25th, 2023
Well, Marine, it was reading stuff in that vein that sent me to Wonderland earlier this year and it took the whole board to argue me back to sanity. Mostly worked. Thanks again, guys.
Dude, they are fucked up in the head when they are doing this stuff, insane in the membrane. That is not a pass, it’s just a reality. Just like there are huge numbers of people who gladly embrace criminal life styles and flaunt them. If that wasn’t true, there would be no mafia’s and organized crime. There is something fundamentally distorted from human decency to enable that. And yup, that could be your wife. Could be mine. She lost the privilege of helping inform reality for you, at least for a time. So just believe yourself right now. Trust your gut, watch for actions, and don’t be a KISA.
When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. - Max Plank
crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 7:49 PM on Monday, September 25th, 2023
There are a lot of messed up people out there. My xWS was one of these people. He lived a double life our entire M and when I was onto him I kept catching him with my sleuthing and he got better and better at hiding it. Eventually he was able to bypass my methods with a burner phone and leave his phone at location he should be at. If they want to get away with it they will and there is nothing we can do about it except hope it is discovered and leave.
I will not entertain R again since my experience. It's not worth the loss of my peace of mind.
fBS/fWS(me):50 Mad-hattered after DD (2008)
XWS:53 Serial Cheater, Diagnosed NPD
XWS cheated the entire M spanning 19 years
Discovered D-Days 2006,2008,2012, False R 2014
ThisIsSoLonely ( Guide #64418) posted at 8:34 PM on Monday, September 25th, 2023
The double life is exhausting. I find myself reading some of that stuff now because I find it weirdly interesting, from a psychological perspective. I mean there are SO MANY people like this. What on Earth can it all stem from, or has our gene pool become so poisoned that 25% of humanity is morally bankrupt, like completely?
It seems - so - tiring.
. . .to the point where he was using WhatsApp, but he would delete and install the app everyday just to talk to his AP. Like WTF? Who in the hell has time for that shit?
This was my WH. Every day - sometimes twice a day if he came home and then decided he wanted to message her. Reinstall, send message, uninstall.
If you have that much time to devote to your affair, you have that much time to fixing your shit and living a more authentic marriage or at the very least, a more meaningful life as a single person.
WH says now that he has way more time to do the above quote and more. The double life was a full time job.
You are the only person you are guaranteed to spend the rest of your life with. Act accordingly.
Constantly editing posts: usually due to sticky keys on my laptop or additional thoughts
Potentialforevil ( new member #83626) posted at 10:48 PM on Monday, September 25th, 2023
It must be very difficult to reconcile with someone who is dedicated to lying and omission. No wonder that you have these doubts. There is a guy here, Ozzy with a major problem of a W that didn't even like him anymore, but still I think truthfulness is the greatest catalyst of their healing. How can you trust your wifes words?
[This message edited by Potentialforevil at 10:49 PM, Monday, September 25th]
Shehawk ( member #68741) posted at 4:35 AM on Tuesday, September 26th, 2023
" They will burn their families down and then blame everyone else (Especially OBS) for the damage they’ve caused. Some people will never not believe they are victims."
"If you have that much time to devote to your affair, you have that much time to fixing your shit and living a more authentic marriage or at the very least, a more meaningful life as a single person."
I think it’s pretty telling how active waywards are googling how to hide their affairs rather than studying how not to be aweful partners who risk their loved one’s health and lives. It’s all in the focus…
The amount of time and energy EX WH put into hiding his cheating and idealizing his APs he could have built us a mansion and a beautiful marriage.
"It's a slow fade...when you give yourself away" so don't do it!
Hurthalo ( member #41782) posted at 1:34 PM on Tuesday, September 26th, 2023
My ex-wife bitched to friends about how 'Hurthalo, despite being literally the perfect husband, is just leaving me with a gap that I can't work out why it needs to be filled.'
And then in the next sentence boasts about how much her AP means to her.
And then gets butthurt and surprised when I kick her out when I find out.
And then gets even more surprised when I blank her completely after I find out about AP2 after the fact.
And then gets surprised again when I don't talk to her anymore and start dating someone younger 5 months later.
DoofusMcDoofus ( new member #82967) posted at 9:11 PM on Tuesday, September 26th, 2023
Cheaters, regardless of Gender, have an insatiable thirst for drama. Even if they are trying to cover it up, the mere thought of a torrid drama and the aftermath that would ensue still outweigh a prudent decision on their part. It does not matter who they cheat with....after all, how many of us were sick to our stomach at what they consider an "upgrade?" It is always hard for us to accept it was never about us.
'tis better to have an end with horror than a horror without end
Topic is Sleeping.