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Topic is Sleeping.

 Camel (original poster member #77378) posted at 11:49 PM on Monday, November 22nd, 2021

Fucking Mondays. Excuse the language. Some of you know but once I found out about my wife's affair we told ourselves we would give it a year. Year will be coming up in December. We still don't talk about the affair unless I bring it up and when I do im not nice about it. I wish she had it in her to actually bring it up for once. But nothing. I wish a lot of things lately and nada.

The real reason why I'm here. I still get the "you are part of the reason why I cheated". Not in those words but she still doesn't take full responsibility for her actions. She goes to IC and apparently I am part of the blame. I wasn't nice so she went looking for nice. Anyway, how the fuck do I let her know that her saying that is not right, or maybe it is. Guess it depends on who you ask. Yes, I was responsible for being an asshole, I accept that but I don't accept her telling me I'm partially to blame for something I didn't even know was going on.

I tell her this is the thing that will make you want to keep your lying and cheating ways. How can you learn from something this major without taking 100 percent of the blame for the affair.

It has been rough for us from the get go. I love her, I always will. I wish she could just stop and really think about it. My head spins daily from this. I read, read, read. I talk to myself more than anyone and that's probably the most painful thing. I try to talk to 2 ICs now and I just don't get anything out of it. I feel like they are just trying to mask my pain and not help me get rid of it.

In the end, regardless of what happens I wish she could just listen for once. Even if we don't make it together, I would still like her to be happy, and not ruin any future relationships.

posts: 81   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2021
id 8699711

PurpleReign ( member #75083) posted at 12:31 AM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

Camel I understand and I hear where you’re coming from. How can anyone fix what they won’t acknowledge. I feel like them taking 100% responsibility for such a horrible choice is the beginning of doing the work. Avoidance is why they cheated in the first place. They avoid the consequences by not bringing it up so they force us to do it. Then they avoid the conversation so the WS/BS avoidance tango continues. Nothing gets done. Nothing gets fixed.

After a while there is nothing the BS spouse can work with. We either suffer in silence and rug sweep or we’re forced to make hard choices. I feel after 2 years of all this non work on my WH part is worse than the affair itself. It’s a purposeful failure to show me I’m not even worth him cleaning up the mess he made. But that’s just the thing. My self worth is what’s propelling me forward not to rug sweep and just get over it. I see it as a strength and me having self worth.

I hope your WW can wake up in time to R if that’s what you want. At minimum wake up so you both can heal.

"Don’t get even get everything" Ivana

posts: 115   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2020   ·   location: Texas
id 8699718

nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 2:12 AM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

In what ways do you believe that the IC want to mask your pain? Are they giving you ways to cope with it? Are they going over ways you have lashed out due to the pain and given you advice on how you can do better next time? Are they examining how this pain may be triggering deeper feelings and old wounds from your childhood? If not, get new ICs. But if they are, then maybe you need to ask yourself why you're not listening and implementing their advice.

I will say that any blame thrown your way from your WW is a non-starter for R and will prevent any healing of the marriage. As will any more emotional abuse from you. Both of you need to accept full responsibility for yourselves without pointing the finger back at the other as the reason for the abuse. If that can't happen, if either one of you can't talk about the A without also pointing the finger at you or talk about your problems without you pointing your finger at her A, your marriage can't continue in a healthy manner. You will always be triggering each other and preventing the other from truly healing and moving on.

posts: 5082   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8699726

ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 2:44 AM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

If your WW didn't like how you were treating her, she could have asked for counseling, kicked you out, filed for divorce or any number of other things. But she didn't. Her cheating was never about YOU. It was always about her... her lack of integrity (meaning that her word was NOT her bond), and her non-existent boundaries (which allowed her to act on her attraction to her coworker). The fact that she's still not owning her shit a year later is very concerning.

I think if you're determined to stay though, you're simply going to have to accept that she's never going to be a safe partner and then plan accordingly. Your best bet is to get your ducks in a row and keep a back-up plan handy so you can file on a moment's notice. I certainly wouldn't invest emotionally in someone who can't take 100% responsibility for her own choices. When a cheater says that it's YOUR fault, what they're saying essentially is that their fidelity is based on YOUR actions and whether or not you're meeting their needs. That's not a marriage. That's a hostage situation.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

{edited for typos.. again}

posts: 4888   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8699730

 Camel (original poster member #77378) posted at 2:56 AM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

My first IC sucked. Period. The second guy, he is a really good guy who wants to see us succeed but literally we talk about th same thing over and over and it's really drowning me. He talks about a plan to get me healed but it never goes into effect. He is an old fella and has cancer which means he is high risk for covid and we do facetime only. Maybe that's why. I really suck at FaceTime.

I talked with my wife. We got into an argument because I can't handle it. She continues to say that she did it because of the attention. She says she is being honest of her why and that's really why she did it. I wish I could get her to understand but it is becoming more and more of a lost cause. I am suffering daily because of it. I beat myself up for it no matter how many times you all say it's not my fault.

posts: 81   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2021
id 8699731

fareast ( Guide #61555) posted at 3:39 AM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

“When a cheater says that it's YOUR fault, what they're saying essentially is that their fidelity is based on YOUR actions and whether or not you're meeting their needs. That's not a marriage. That's a hostage situation.“

I heartily second ChamomileTea’s thoughts. I always go back to basics. Your WW looked you in the eyes on your wedding day and vowed to be faithful while you are married, whether she is happy or sad, adored or ignored, connected at the hip or disconnected. Period. No exceptions. I’m sure your WW is being honest in telling you she cheated because her AP was paying her more attention. Her vow to be faithful was conditional not absolute. If she happens to feel unhappy with you in the future for whatever reason, you left the toilet seat up, failed to take out the garbage, whatever b.s. excuse, she gives herself permission to cheat on you.

Millions of people everyday feel disconnected, unloved, ignored, and displaced in their M, but they never cheat! Why? Because they made a solemn vow to their partner to be faithful. Period. That’s all there is to it.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 2952   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8699736

emergent8 ( member #58189) posted at 5:30 AM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

I’m sorry she doesn’t seem to be getting it in the way you want her to.

I want to push you on the "why" issue though. A desire for attention is a common one for Waywards. Let’s take it at face value. So say she did it because she liked the attention, the answer then becomes why do you need attention so badly that it became worth the trade-off of your morals? The answer is not "because you didn’t give it to me" (I assume this is what you are presuming if you say she is victim blaming). The answer tends to be, "because I get my feelings of self-worth from external validation". Okay, so why do need the validation of others? How can you ever be a safe partner if you are that vulnerable to a compliment from some guy on the street? What are you going to do about it so that you don’t need others to feel worthy.

Me: BS, Him: WS. Mid-late 30s.
Together 15 years, married 6 (11 m at D-Day).
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
5 years (and two toddlers) into R. Happy.

posts: 751   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8699739

gmc94 ( Guide #62810) posted at 6:13 AM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

guess what? Sometimes (not always) I love attention too. Most folks love attention in one form or another or at one time or another. Ego strokes can feel good .... like doing a job well can feel good.

Yet I never cheated.

Because I also love honesty

and integrity

Unless/until the WS takes full responsibility for their choices, I don't see them as "safe" partners or partners worthy of R. Just my opinion.

If you "can't handle it" then what can YOU do to change the dynamic? IME, there are no magic words or books or podcasts or maybe even ICs that can change a WS - they change when they want to (or they change when the pain of the status quo is greater than the pain/fear of change).

I'm not D and not R... but I am emotionally detached from my WH. It works for me for now.

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3621   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8699745

guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 9:26 AM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

I wasn't nice so she went looking for nice.

There's nothing to argue about, because it is logical. The illogical and controversial part is why she didn't leave the "not nice". The answers that can be given in your favor on this matter like "because she loves you" etc. will not be correct, because then it will contradict that you are not nice.
She didn't choose to leave "not nice" after all, and another man's penis wasn't among the things that makes him nicer. So your being not nice has nothing to do with her infidelity as a reaction because it wasn't meant to change the action.

posts: 624   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8699755

OrdinaryDude ( member #55676) posted at 11:20 AM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

If she is not taking complete ownership of her A, perhaps you should begin the D process and talk to her about that instead.

Me - BH 50+
Her - WW 50+
Married 30+ years, 2 adult kids
(1989) PA Rug-Swept
(2002) EA Rug-Swept
(2016) EA *Getting Out Of Infidelity*

**Working at Reconciling**

posts: 3397   ·   registered: Oct. 19th, 2016   ·   location: The Big Easy
id 8699759

gemini12 ( member #78670) posted at 7:03 PM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

Hello Camel,

I remember your past postings along with your wife's. I'm sorry to hear you are still struggling and in pain.

If your wife is still blaming you for her cheating, you really don't have much of a future together, IMO.

It's been almost a year and you are still spinning your wheels with her. Maybe it's time to move on no matter how hard that may be.

posts: 52   ·   registered: Apr. 18th, 2021
id 8699829

HalfTime2017 ( member #64366) posted at 10:38 PM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

You have an unremorseful spouse that you are dragging through R.

She is not helping you heal, but rather putting the blame on you.

Read up on Being Mr. Nice Guy, and I hope you can see that you're doing this all by yourself. Not much of a wife you have left. I'd let her go.

posts: 1234   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2018   ·   location: Cali
id 8699857

 Camel (original poster member #77378) posted at 10:48 PM on Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021

Thank you to all!

I beat myself up a lot over all of this because I wasn't the greatest to her. I appreciate the backup. I have and continue to read books but I have not read no more Mr nice guy.

I did read leave a cheater, gain a life. I should probably read it again. I am losing more and more hope as the days go by but I can't keep asking her to take responsibility.if she won't then she won't.

Is what it is.

posts: 81   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2021
id 8699859

sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 3:03 AM on Wednesday, November 24th, 2021

You know that most BSes and WSes are not in good shape when they're a year out from d-day, right? It just takes longer to heal than a year.

What's your IC's plan for your healing? Do you agree with it? What keeps it unfulfilled? If you want something changed, what do you want it to be? WHat do you want your discussions to be about?

ICs aren't magic. All they can do is guide you to get to make the changes you want to make.

I'm unclear on this: when your W says she went outside your M for attention, is that a description or an excuse?

What do you do differently now WRT your M? What does your W do different?

Finally, what do you want? Do you want to R or D, or are you still undecided (which would not be abnormal)? It's not that you should have decided by now - I'm just asking so we all know where you are.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 26534   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8699903

Dazedandconfused1978 ( member #79527) posted at 11:18 AM on Wednesday, November 24th, 2021

Camel- apologies for your situation. I find myself where your at. My wife does admit and take responsibility for the affair but still doesn’t want to talk about. She offers very short one sentence answers and tries her best to change the subject stating that talking about it just upsets me. Gives me the we need to focus on the future and the present. Hell, the present right now for me is trying to understand the past, duh??

Any how, what I wanted to ask you is, with the year coming up, what kind of line did you draw in the sand? I’ve gave my wife till Jan of 2023. Felt this fair as that will give us a full year of trying R and we will be in better financial shape to make a split at that time. Hopefully it doesn’t come that, but what exactly does your year plan look like??

posts: 65   ·   registered: Oct. 26th, 2021
id 8699928
Topic is Sleeping.
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