SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If this is a real problem for you (it was for me), maybe talk to your PCP or an ND.

I'm going to see my PCP this weekend. Thankfully she has an office open on Saturdays.

I also need to go back to my cardiologist. I was taking a shower this morning when BAM, chest pains. Reminded me of my heart attack. But all I could think about was, "Damn, my body won't be found for days. But at least it will be clean. Is my ww gonna care that I died?"

But then I remembered changing my life insurance beneficiary, and I thought, "She'll care. She's gonna be really pissed off."

Anyway, I think my heart's fine, just experiencing lots of stress induced pain.

[This message edited by 36yearsgone at 9:17 AM, November 1st (Wednesday)]

I lived with chronic chest pains for about 2 years- 24 hours a day. A couple of times I was certain I was having a heart attack. This is one of those unexpected joys of being betrayed.

I lived with chronic chest pains for about 2 years- 24 hours a day. A couple of times I was certain I was having a heart attack. This is one of those unexpected joys of being betrayed.

Infidelity, the gift that keeps on giving.

With your chest pains, glad you will see your Dr.

just in case, you do need to tell all to all your children, so you can not be blamed forever by your

WW.

Get them your side of the story.

hope today is a better day.

With your chest pains, glad you will see your Dr.

just in case, you do need to tell all to all your children, so you can not be blamed forever by your

WW.

Get them your side of the story.

That makes sense. I am putting together a written chronology of events along with the appropriate evidence when I have it. My children will get copies of it next week.

I am putting together a written chronology of events along with the appropriate evidence when I have it. My children will get copies of it next week.

Good for you in not letting her control the narrative. I think you want to make sure that your children understand you aren't throwing their mother under the bus, but that you ARE not swallowing her whitewashed version hook, line and sinker.

Cat

Having grown up children makes it harder in some ways and adds another level to everything. It is so important you tell them your side and writing it is an excellent way for you in your position. Yes the facts are important but most of all tell them about your pain and the trauma you have endured. Leave them in no doubt you did not choose to be betrayed and have no other option other than to D at this point. My grown up kids still won't talk to me about his A - maybe in time we will talk but at least they know the facts and understand my pain.

Having grown up children makes it harder in some ways and adds another level to everything. It is so important you tell them your side and writing it is an excellent way for you in your position. Yes the facts are important but most of all tell them about your pain and the trauma you have endured. Leave them in no doubt you did not choose to be betrayed and have no other option other than to D at this point. My grown up kids still won't talk to me about his A - maybe in time we will talk but at least they know the facts and understand my pain.

I am having to learn new ways to deal with this mess.

1.) I have always been very protective of my wife. I never wanted to do anything that might cause her pain or embarrass her. But now, if I don't address the issue straight on, I'm the one who looks like a fool or an ass.

2.) I love my kids, but I have never let them see me cry. I was raised in the generation of real men don't cry. It is very difficult for me to let them see me weak, upset devastated or weeping. It's an entirely new paradigm for me.

3.) For the first time in my life I have developed an anger issue. It's all directly related to my wife screwing the POSOM. I don't want my children to see that component of this mess.

4.) I know everybody here seems to have clear cut reasoning for what I, or anyone else in a similar situation, should do. Immediately file for divorce, go NC, do the 180, open new bank accounts, etc., etc. These are apparently tried, true and effective, but quite foreign to me.

My wife has an affair and I'm the one who has to change who I am? She cheats and therefore I have to change my personality, character, thinking and everything I do?

This is not easy for me. It seems so unfair. I don't want to remain in infidelity, but I also don't want to become so far removed from who I am that I no longer recognize myself.

I struggle with this all the time. I struggle with the thought that I should reach out to this woman whom I have loved for nearly all of my adult life.

I want my children to know they should never put up with infidelity, but I also want them to know that where sin abounds, grace abounds more abundantly.

So I am writing things down for them. The template of SI says I should disclose all to my kids. I know people here realize how hard that is, but for me it feels like I am ripping apart everything I am to protect their perception of me.

I'm having a bad moment this afternoon for a currently undisclosed reason so please don't judge me to harshly.

I have inferred that I am weak if I don't respond a certain way or I'm stupid if I don't understand menopause or my WW's menstrual cycles.

As of right this second the template isn't working for me. Those feelings seem to change by the second so I am going to go back and forth for God knows how long trying to discover who I am and what I should be doing that fits me.

Up until a few weeks ago I was a spiritual person; a spiritual man. But lately I feel like I am operating in the flesh. I raised my children with certain spiritual principles, taught them right from wrong, mercy, grace and forgiveness.

If I deliver this documentation to them, how are they going to receive it? Badly? But I have a template of accepted post DD behavior I am supposed to be following. I've taken lots of those steps already, but this afternoon I feel absolutely lost, confused and mentally distraught.

I am reminded of a passage in Galatians 3:3 that says,

Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

I feel like I am not approaching this spiritually, but in the flesh.

Pardon me for rambling again, but my mind won't stop processing all the disparities I am feeling.

I think I'm getting ready for another major letdown. Who the hell am I?

[This message edited by 36yearsgone at 9:21 AM, November 2nd (Thursday)]

36,

I’ve also struggled with these spiritual issues as a believer, however, spiritual maturity does not preclude one from applying common sense and logic.

In addition to those, honesty is paramount...her deceit contrasted by your honesty will surely strike a cord with your children and other family or friends, so please don’t withhold the truth thinking it’s somehow immoral to tell them everything, otherwise her lies may be accepted as fact.

Common sense and logic would dictate divorce following her continued flaunting of the A and the attempted DV charge...she can never be considered safe to be around again.

Grace and forgiveness do not automatically mean R, nor should it. You can be gracious and forgiving from afar.

Also, this experience does not necessarily change who you are, but it can refine you, just as fire refines gold by removing the dross. God often lets us experience trials as part of our sanctification, removing our dross, whatever form it may take.

You have much to offer a potential mate, regardless of age, so don’t let her keep you from finding someone worthy of you, someone that would look to you as the husband they need and want.

36,

I haven't posted her but have been long following your thread. I can understand much of the anguish you are currently feeling after a marriage that long. We all wanted to protect and love our spouses, couldn't understand how they could do that to us. Long time spouses feel like their spouse is a part of them, just as much as your hand or you rib.

Most of the suggestions have come from a desire to speed you along the path out of infidelity. Some are harsh when you first look and foreign to who we are. Please be loving with yourself and try to see the purpose and intent behind them and how it will work for you.

I know how a long time married person feels about their spouse and really has no desire to hurt them. But your spouse has done just that. We are not urging you to change who you are, but to love yourself more than your spouse who has hurt you tremendously. By loving yourself you will stay who you are. Your spouse's actions are what has changed you. Being angry, being lost, being confused, feeling unloving and hurtful, feeling all the other emotions foreign to you. These all stem from the tremendous amount of hurt and pain you are suffering. You are not weak to not respond in a certain way. Many have taken more time as they emotionally heal before they take the steps that so many are saying "do it NOW" and we are just not able. You have made some great strides at times and have made a bunch of progress. Give yourself a day of rest when needed and get back to it the next day. The lawyer is done, you did some of the finances and you will do more. People are afraid it isn't fast enough because we have seen people completely loosing everything, because a spouse drained all the finances before a divorce was filed and it was too late. We have seen some reduced to living in an inexpensive studio apartment while the spouse had everything. One BW was living in a homeless shelter after the divorce.

The struggle about telling your children is something I never had to do. I would make a timeline with when she did things and how they hurt you. I would have items like putting OM above you when she did and said certain things such as if you were gone, it would be easier, not loving you etc. The children don't need to know every detail. But I would include what she said or did that hurt you the most. Say how it made you feel, how it affected your health, how it makes it impossible to think of reconcilliation. Tell about the false DV she attempted and the circumstances there.

The only time God allows divorce, is in the case of adultery. It is a sin against the body, which he has made. Maybe the why, is because it hurts him as it does us. We can have the grace to forgive a sinner, but we don't have to forget or expose ourselves to one that refuses to feel remorse from their sin.

As for menopause. Don't feel bad. There are many women and men that don't understand it that well. Just take the information that was shared that makes you more knowledgeable and ignore the rest.

Please take care of yourself.

[This message edited by purplebreeze at 6:19 PM, November 1st (Wednesday)]

Dude, what coping mechanisms do you have in place?

This might sound stupid, but when i feeling the devastation, I cleaned the shit out of my car. Like toothbrush worth cleaning. I figured if i ended up dating again itd be ready and if not, its not a loss doing it. Kinda felt crazy at the time, but it got some of the nervous energy out.

You have anything like that you could do?

I read, I do some programming, play golf...but I just can't seem to focus.

I am thinking of calling my wife. Sigh.

Calling her for what?

If you want someone to feed you bullshit, there'splenty of folks less dangerous.

Who the hell am I?

36,

You are the same decent, supportive man that you always were. You have just been treated in an appalling fashion by the one person on Earth who should most have had your back, and kept you safe and secure. It has traumatised you. You have done incredibly well to reach the point you are at today, but I understand completely why you may now feel like to follow the process recommended here means detaching yourself from any vestige of spirituality. I do not think that is the case, and I will add my two cents here if it will help.

For a start, I do not think that a spiritual person only operates on a spiritual level. To use a very basic example, priests have to eat and drink; if they rely on their spirituality to sustain them, they will be thin and dehydrated before too long, and dead soon after that. So in that sense, the spiritual and the physical are forever entwined, because we are creatures of both spirituality and physicality.

However, what that example illustrates is that physicality can exist without spirituality, but spirituality cannot exist without physicality. The physical is literally the life-support of the spiritual, and I am talking there about far more than just food and drink, particularly as we are focusing on the devastating effect that a loved one being physical with another person has on our mental and spiritual well-being.

Again, that is another link between the two worlds, isn't it? Physical betrayal impacts on the soul of the betrayed person. It does not bruise them, it does not cut them, it does not break the skin. What it damages is spiritual, emotional, and psychological; the capacity to trust, to be vulnerable, to love. In the state of matrimony, the physical, the emotional, and the spiritual are all inextricably and very explicitly linked. When you married, two human beings (physical), through being in love (emotional), were joined together in a binding ceremony before God (spiritual). Vows were made which, I imagine, covered forsaking all others and remaining faithful to one another, which was a spiritual promise that was supposed to prohibit physical and spiritual infidelity. Thus, the state of matrimony combines the human trinity of the physical, the emotional, and the spiritual.

The commission of adultery is explicitly prohibited in the Ten Commandments ("Thou shalt not commit adultery", is found at Exodus 20:14 of the Tanakh and Old Testament). It would logically follow that if a person goes through a ceremony based in a religion for which the Ten Commandments are a foundation, and then betrays the seventh commandment and the vows they made before God by committing adultery, they have effectively detached themselves from the spiritual, to operate in the realms of the physical and the emotional. When that happens, it becomes difficult to apply spirituality to a scenario from which the key player has excluded it, and so we tend to deal with infidelity in the dimensions where it 'lives', which are the emotional and the physical.

There is sense in dealing with problems in the realm, or realms, in which they exist. An emotional problem cannot be healed with a good meal (physical). A broken leg (physical) cannot be healed by sympathy (emotion). Hunger (physical) cannot be assuaged by faith (spiritual).

In trying to come to grips with the situation that your wife plunged you into, you have had to cope with a lot of unpleasant physical and emotional aspects, which have had a profound impact on your physical and emotional well-being, as you have documented in your thread. So those are the main areas that you have been focused on, and they are the areas that the bulk of advice and counselling about how to cope with infidelity deal with.

In terms of Christian spirituality, adultery is a straightforward breach of a fundamental tenet of the religion, as well as the vows made during the marriage ceremony. Which means that infidelity leaves an adherent of the religion, its fundamental tenets, and the marriage vows, with something of a conundrum when they try to reconcile all the elements. Is it any wonder, then, that you feel conflicted, 36?

However, I get the feeling that what you are really struggling with is not so much a purely spiritual issue, but rather, how you reconcile actions taken to protect yourself with the ideals you have about being a protector of others. In particular, if you tell your children the truth about the affair, are you protecting yourself at the expense of removing your protection from your wife, and if you are, does that make you a bad person?

My view of it is that you are unquestionably a good person, and a good person who has been treated horribly. In relation to protection, I think you need to step back from focusing purely on yourself, and take a wider view that includes all of the key players; you, your wife, your children, the OM, and the crew at the office where your wife worked.

Out of that large group of people, 36, who among them has protected you?

If you feel you owe any of them a duty of protection, can you really say that none of them owed you a similar duty?

And if you cannot name a single person in that group who has done anything to protect you, should you really feel any guilt or self-doubt because having been essentially abandoned, you had no choice but to protect yourself?

Why, my friend, are you being so hard on yourself when it is those around you who should be questioning themselves about why they have done so little to return the massive debt they owe you in your hour of need after all of the years you provided your protection to them?

Is it really a one-way street, in which only you have a duty of protection, and they can stand back and watch you sink or swim, with no obligations on them to support and protect you in this one time when you really need their help and support?

And if you are not getting the protection and support you need from those around you, and you stop protecting and supporting yourself, then where does that leave you, 36? Why would it be a virtue for you to deny yourself your own protection when you have lavished it on those around you for almost four decades? 36, this is a time when more than ever, you have to be your own best friend and ally, and your own protector.

You struggle with the notion that you are somehow failing your wife if you do not protect or support her, but in what ways did she protect and support you and herself by indulging in the affair, having sex without condoms, and getting involved with a man as dubious as the OM?

Effectively, you are seeing yourself as a bad guy if you do not step in and protect your wife in a scenario in which she betrayed you, risked exposing you to STDs, and conspired against you with a criminal (including the false DV charges). Why did she have no duty to protect you from those things, and beyond that, if she did not protect herself from those obviously bad things, why is it your duty to offer her more protection than she provided for herself?

The reality of your situation is that far from protecting you, your wife has repeatedly attacked you and your values, exposed you to threats to your health, and that has left you no choice but to protect yourself. That does not make you a bad person, it makes you a person who has been failed by others who benefited from your protection and support for decades, but did not provide that same protection and support for you when you need it the most. Why and how are you the bad guy in that situation, 36?

Seriously, my friend, if there is one person in this entire saga who should not be beating themselves up, it is you. You stand like a beacon of decency and solid values, while others have really let you and themselves down badly. The OM feels no guilt. Your wife feels no guilt. You? You are wracked with guilt! How can that be right? I know that you might say that you feel guilt because you stand by your values, but please, 36, do not turn your values and principles into a rack on which you torture yourself. After everything else you have been put through, you really, truly do not deserve that.

36, you do not have to protect wrongdoers to be a good man. You are unquestionably a good man, and you should have been treated much better because of that. That you have not been is cause for those who have done you wrong to question themselves, not for you to doubt yourself.

You have done no wrong, my friend.

36,

The hyper technical term is cognitive dissonance. It defines the battle you are experiencing with yourself. Read about it. See if it resonates.

For me, I dumb it down to the heart and mind are not aligned.

Regarding the template and telling family members: Adultery betrays a covenant. The lies and deceit betray the entire family. Because it steals from everyone. Lying and deceitful behavior destroys trust and relationships. Honesty restore a firm sense of what is real versus the otherworldliness created by deceit.

Examine why you would tell your children. What you would tell them. Not because of a "paint by number" template. But because of your own sense of what they deserve to know.

36, one of the most important concepts of NC is no new hurts. If you call your WW, she will barrage you, blame you, and chew you out. She might beg a little but the bulk of her conversation will be about how hurt SHE is and how what you have done is far worse than her betrayal. It would be bad enough if she was at least pretending to be remorseful but your WS is downright toxic and hateful. Proceed at your own risk.

[This message edited by nekonamida at 1:04 AM, November 2nd (Thursday)]

36 -

I have much to say about this post. I will keep it brief and whats most heavy on my heart. I believe what we do most poorly here at SI; most particularly on JFO is what you've just described. We tend to be so focused on getting people out of infidelity... telling new members what they should be doing, what they are doing wrong, go NC, see a lawyer, tell the kids, expose, call HR, get a VAR, tell OBS, etc etc - that we ALL forget how incredibly heartbroken we once were. I agree that the advice given here is good advice. But... it is so difficult to hear when new posters are barely functioning.

I was where you once were. I had no idea who I was. The puzzle pieces no longer fit together. I am 3 years out; I am still married. We are in R and in a decent place. I am just now able to remember who I once was. I am banged up and scarred forever.... but I can remember me again. You will get there. It will take way too long. But it will happen.

PS. I was particularly irritated at all of the comments about menopause. I felt you were unfairly criticized. You were advised that she told you of a pregnancy as manipulation and then we all became monkeys in the circus. Its so easy to get caught up in. BTW - because of this post - I sat down and explained to my husband that I have been in the stages of menopause for exactly 24 months. I told him what this means and that I will officially be in menopause when my periods stop for 12 months. I told him that though it is VERY unlikely that I can get pregnant, it is possible. His response was - "why are you telling me this, I was snipped 14 years ago. And I want to sound interested but it makes no difference to me." Hopefully no one will ever criticize him - thanks to you. :)

No advice 36.

Just a hug from an SI friend.

I'm over 3 years out from my final DDay... and still entangled/disentangling.

there's really no rush.

With feeling,

MOB

36,

One thing I can promise you is that no-one is here to judge you or criticise you. It is only natural that you miss your wife, whatever has happened, and the situation you find yourself in at the moment must feel completely unnatural to you. That is bound to make you want to reach out to those close to you.

If you do reach out to her, nobody here is going to be critical of you, or talk about the breaking of any 'rules'. Anything and everything suggested here is exactly that: a suggestion. As is said on a regular basis, the best way to use these forums is to take what is useful and leave what isn't. No-one is going to take issue with you not following every suggestion to the letter, nor think you are in any way 'weak' if you do contact your wife. Good grief, that would be awful.

I think that the reason posters here have concerns about you contacting your wife is that on several occasions you have been ambushed by things you did not expect, and sometimes the meetings left you feeling upset or conflicted. It is not because any rules say you should never contact your wife.

To be pragmatic, there is going to come a time where you will have to contact your wife, and if you have done that now, then it is really just an inevitable and necessary thing that was bound to happen. I certainly would not take issue with you doing something that you felt strongly compelled to do. All I would hope is that you would go into it with your eyes open, and with the knowledge that everyone here will be there to support you, not to control you or criticise you.

I think that sopainfulstill makes a very good point about the barrage of advice and do's and don't's that are fired at confused, hurting people who stumble into the forum with no idea which was is up anymore. Posters may be extremely vulnerable or in emotional turmoil, and for some new arrivals, the deluge of 'do this', 'never do that', actually drives them away, because it can be too much, too soon, and they just can't handle it. Sadly, there is no easy answer to that, because we all do rush in with the best intentions, wanting to help. You have felt a bit overwhelmed yourself, 36, in feeling like you have to stick to what has been suggested, even though it is out of synch with what you want to do.

We are never here to be judge and jury on anyone who posts in a forum looking for help. Nor to dictate what must be done, or issue orders to be followed without question. It is always just suggestions and options from which you can make a selection. What all of us would like every poster to do is find happiness in their lives again, but only the original posters can define what their version of happiness looks like. There is no standard template for that, so there can be no absolute rules that apply to absolutely everyone in every situation.

WARNING: Spiritual Comments Below. Some may want to skip this post. For non-Christians, these are my thoughts, not meant to offend anyone.

36, I understand your struggle. It is tough. Being reminded of the prophet Hosea, I wondered how many times I was to forgive my XWW for her infidelity. Was I honoring God's wishes? I was reminded that sometimes God asks us to do things, not because He plans for us to succeed in the task, but to see if we are faithful and willing to follow Him.

Eventually, it became clear that my marriage was to end. It wasn't easy, and I don't think I became a different person. One of the things you have to remember is that you are not turning your back on the woman you loved for so many years. That person no longer exists. It is difficult to accept, but that is the truth.

You can forgive, no one is telling you not to. When you are ready, you do it for yourself. You move on. You don't need to hold a grudge.

And you can tell your children without being mean or angry. You can let them know that your WW betrayed you and your marriage (and your kids too). State the facts. No details, just facts so they know what happened. Let them know that ending your M was extremely difficult, but it could not continue as it was completely broken. And you couldn't fix it by yourself.

You are not a failure. Don't be too hard on yourself. And everyone handles this their own way. You make it work the best you can for you.