SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

That kind of liberal, weak thinking is why your wife stepped out on you with a Black dude.

Funfact: 85% of White males married to White females get cheated on.

Funfact2: Of that 85%, over 90% identify as Liberal.

As far as making my own thread - this site does not like honesty. Certainly not when it comes to the nuances of cheating and the breakdown therein (Demographic breakdown of Infidelity is extremely important for avoiding it in the future).

I know I'll get banned. It's whatever.

Doesn't change the facts on the ground. Infidelity is a largely White Western problem committed by White females.

36,

You might want to ask for a mod separately than in your very long thread.

Just post a new thread in the forum.

T/j sorry 36,

Post away ate mugs. I would loooooove to know your demographic.

Start a thread. Alllll the folks here would love the truth. Us white women can handle it.

Can you?

You might want to ask for a mod separately than in your very long thread.

Just post a new thread in the forum.

Thanks, I'll do that.

Agreed. A mod needs to boot AteMugs from the site.

Back to things that matter, your STBXWW must be really desperate to throw out a (most likely fake) pregnancy. Based on what you've said, can't imagine what her goal was. She very likely could be experiencing the same symptoms from stress of the disaster she created, but it's not your problem. She only has herself to blame for her situation.

Wish I had advice for you on how to handle it. Obviously you need to continue to communicate with your son. Maybe just ask him to tell his mother that any communication to you should go through your lawyer. Since that is what you have told her, just ask him to honor your request.

Yes back to 36.

Your children are adults. You need to treat them as such.

Details, no. Reality, yes.

I cannot understand your wife’s goal in letting your son know she might be pregnant.

Just kinda weird as she would know he would question a pregnancy.

And now you question it?

You’ve been married 36 years, surely you know if your wife is in menopause or not, and how long.

Then he wanted to know how we could ever reconcile if we weren't communicating with each other. I told him I don't really know the answer to that question.

Are you familiar with J.A.D.E. (justify, argue, defend, or explain)? You do not have to do any of these things. You state your position. You can clarify your position.

She, through him as a surrogate, set the issue up to get you to JADE. And it really is counter intuitive. There is nothing you could say that would cause her to accept your view. Those with personality disorders do not care what the other person is feeling, thinking. They do not balance and weigh their needs against another person's needs. The JADE dynamic is the favored playing field of those with PD.

You handled it well enough by your answer. Because you didn't take the bait and get into a JADE pissing contest. Read a bit about JADE (search on "justify, argue, defend or explain"). It will take you a bit of time to recognize those scenarios for what they are because you are normal. In the sense that you look to build consensus with others through the normal give and take of a relationship dynamic. That just isn't a possibility with the PD.

Teaching yourself how to avoid the JADE dynamic is a lot like rewiring yourself for the 180 or NC. It doesn't come naturally. But you can train yourself to it by recognizing the trap that it represents.

Avoiding the JADE dynamic helps you detach from emotionally toxic people. It is a force field that you can employ to protect yourself.

You’ve been married 36 years, surely you know if your wife is in menopause or not, and how long.

I wish that were true. She claims she stopped having her periods months ago. But I believe she was having her periods at least into early summer.

I honestly don't know anything about menopause except for the very little I've heard about hormonal changes and moodiness. I don't know whether I'm a typical male in regards to this subject or just stupid.

So if I am going to rely solely on hormones and moods, she seemed to change every month around her cycle. How do I tell the difference between one hormonal change and another. I am absolutely clueless.

Are you familiar with J.A.D.E. (justify, argue, defend, or explain)? You do not have to do any of these things. You state your position. You can clarify your position.

She, through him as a surrogate, set the issue up to get you to JADE. And it really is counter intuitive. There is nothing you could say that would cause her to accept your view. Those with personality disorders do not care what the other person is feeling, thinking. They do not balance and weigh their needs against another person's needs. The JADE dynamic is the favored playing field of those with PD.

You handled it well enough by your answer. Because you didn't take the bait and get into a JADE pissing contest. Read a bit about JADE (search on "justify, argue, defend or explain"). It will take you a bit of time to recognize those scenarios for what they are because you are normal. In the sense that you look to build consensus with others through the normal give and take of a relationship dynamic. That just isn't a possibility with the PD.

Teaching yourself how to avoid the JADE dynamic is a lot like rewiring yourself for the 180 or NC. It doesn't come naturally. But you can train yourself to it by recognizing the trap that it represents.

Avoiding the JADE dynamic helps you detach from emotionally toxic people. It is a force field that you can employ to protect yourself.

I was not familiar with that term, but have found a few websites dealing with it. Thanks.

If she is pregnant, is it yours?

That kind of liberal, weak thinking is why your wife stepped out on you with a Black dude.

Funfact: 85% of White males married to White females get cheated on.

Funfact2: Of that 85%, over 90% identify as Liberal.

As far as making my own thread - this site does not like honesty. Certainly not when it comes to the nuances of cheating and the breakdown therein (Demographic breakdown of Infidelity is extremely important for avoiding it in the future).

I know I'll get banned. It's whatever.

Doesn't change the facts on the ground. Infidelity is a largely White Western problem committed by White females.

OK, spam artist.

Atemugs will no longer be joining us.

I know, right? Artmugs could be doing this on ashley madison where his glorious revelations might actually stop an evildoer, but instead wants to derail honest effort to help others here.

Doesn't get that he's talking to the wrong audience.

Edit: Sorry, offtopic.

[This message edited by Notthevictem at 4:26 PM, October 30th (Monday)]

I'm glad he's gone. I thought I might have to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Thanks moderator.

A good rule of thumb here 36 is take what you need and leave the rest. A lot of folks from a lot of different places and perspectives. Its one of the beautiful things about this volunteer operation. But it also means someone else may soeak from their path of healing and what healed them might hurt you. You dont need it don't use it is what works the best for most.

A good rule of thumb here 36 is take what you need and leave the rest. A lot of folks from a lot of different places and perspectives. Its one of the beautiful things about this volunteer operation. But it also means someone else may soeak from their path of healing and what healed them might hurt you. You dont need it don't use it is what works the best for most.

Thanks

Back to the issue at hand 36,

I’m sorry but I do believe a man would know if his wife was menstruating or not.

There are signs that do not include mood.

Regardless, your wife telling your son she might be pregnant, and him knowing you had a vasectomy, and she had an affair, would only serve to have your son believe she is pregnant by the OM.

Wasn’t your son pissed off at that revelation?

I’m sorry but I do believe a man would know if his wife was menstruating or not.

There are signs that do not include mood.

If I am having sex with her during menstruation, I would know that she is menstruating. But other than that, I need some sort of sign to know. As I don't go through her personal feminine products, and can barely stand being in that aisle in a supermarket, I didn't always know.

Regardless, your wife telling your son she might be pregnant, and him knowing you had a vasectomy, and she had an affair, would only serve to have your son believe she is pregnant by the OM.

Wasn’t your son pissed off at that revelation?

I didn't discuss with my son how he felt about that revelation. At least not in any detail.

Funny story time? My wife sent me to the store to get tampons and pads once. Tried to make me feel like an asshole for not wanting to do it. So i found the kind she wanted... and bought 20 boxes of each.

I thought I might have to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

36,

Kudos to you for retaining your sense of humour under fire. That made me laugh out loud when I read it, and I will file it away to use myself in future.

As for this latest melodrama, it is really just a repeat performance of a ploy that has been aired a few times already: involve other people, claim illness/distress. It is just manipulation, as you rightly identified, and you have had a ton of great advice here in response to it. Not your monkeys, not your show.

However, we can all appreciate how hard it is for a guy like you, who has always been supportive and a problem solver, to put your own well-being first, and to disengage and step back when someone is trying to manipulate you. It is not natural, is it? That's the thing with a lot of self-protection techniques. They can feel unnatural, or rude, or dispassionate, or uncaring. Things that are hard for a nice, caring person to do. And yet...Then you see how they really work to protect you when someone is trying to manipulate you to benefit your own agenda.

In my very first job, I wound up being pressured into giving my phone number to a guy who was promoting financial services and investment advice. One day, they called me at the office. It was lunchtime, and there was only me and one other guy in the office. I was on the phone for around fifteen minutes, trying to politely get rid of the guy, but that proved as easy as getting chewing gum out of your hair. I finally managed it, when I persuaded him that I had no money to invest, but I had his number, and I would call him if I ever did have cash to spare.

The other guy in the office was older than me, and he asked me who had called. I told him. He sighed, and said, "Just put the phone down on those people". I protested that I couldn't do that, it would be rude. My colleague laughed, and said, "And wasn't him calling you at your place of work and not taking no for an answer also a bit rude? I was sitting there listening to it, and I could tell you didn't want to be involved in that call. So could he, but he wanted your money, so he didn't care about your feelings, did he? If someone is going to treat you like that, why worry about being rude to them?"

I thought about it, and realised that he was right. Engaging with someone who ignores our feelings because doing so is beneficial for their own agenda is not beneficial for us, or our well-being. So now, I put the phone down on some people.

And it works.

So my advice to you, 36, is to step back and not get bogged down in the details of the latest gala performance to have rolled off the conveyor belt of consequence-dodging melodrama that your WW has dreamed up. Let "Do not engage" become your mantra, and then the details will stop mattering. They are just hooks, being used to try and pull you in, but that can only happen if you engage. Don't!

I am going to research that JADE thing mentioned by Timelessloss. I think we could all benefit from doing that.

You are doing the right thing by remaining detached from this latest street theatre performance, 36, and you are doing much better than you realise.

Sending strength and best wishes as always,

M.