SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Actually, murkywaters, what I generally see in that circumstance is those posters either saying that sort of reason is a bullshit lie

Right that's the context of what I thought we were discussing. She/He said one thing does another thing, basically a lie.

or saying whatever the reason is doesn’t matter,

I don't think anyone is saying that

she still gave such-and-so XYZ or liked it better.

That's a possible conclusion to be drawn from being lied to. Not really part of my question though.

@Incarnate

First, let us start this response with, from what I read from you, your life has been horrifying on many levels that have not doubt left significant scars and have impacted your core personality in a way I am not qualified to assess or even to fully comprehend. One of my great hopes in life is that such things simply do not exist in the future.

Okay. I'm not going to talk about or address the seemingly pervasive idea that women routinely abuse their ability to cry foul to hurt men. I find such a thing ridiculous, as in the root meaning of the word "worthy of ridicule."

I can imagine from your perspective it is difficult to see such a statement as being factual or having basis in fact. Unfortunately, in my 15+ years experience touching many many companies, both in due diligence and “management” role I have accumulated a significant database (from my direct experiences +). I am sure you can imagine I/we like to measure just about everything in just about every possible way looking for the next holy grail of predictive models. The number of false (I am simplifying the category as it is far more detailed than I would care to share) reports is unsettling. There are of course a substantial number of accurate reports, however, the false reports while not approaching the suggested super majority numbers of a later poster in this thread are, however “structurally significant”.

This information is not “worthy of ridicule” although it would make things easier if it were so.

What was specifically brought up in the selection was, and I quote...

...talking about women who have had sex in a negative light can affect women who have been assaulted.

... and you go to the angle of "offense as a tool to manipulate."

Dude. Bullshit. You do -not- understand the mindset, the mental space, and the effects of sexual assault. If you did, then you would not brush aside that statement with "oh, you're an offended SJW."

You most certainly correct, I do not claim to remotely understand sexual assault at any level beyond a reasonable observer of information.

HOWEVER, I believe also because of your cumulative experiences you may have difficulty in accepting that there are people/groups who rely upon “offense” (again a simplified category) as a tool for their objectives. In its simplest form, it is basically a purpose-based grievance (example a “gotcha moment” when a statement can be twisted interpreted in an unintended way), in its more complex and directed, something quite Orwellian.

I’ll leave you this thought…If someone is willing to betray someone in a manner completely outside any reasonable perspective (my X, your wife), would it be so far beyond the realm possibility as to believe that “women/people in a work environment would cry foul to cause harm to another”. How many times to do see referenced on this forum alone “get a VAR” to protect against false domestic violence charges, why would people say this unless it has happened, and has happened often.

Sweet potatoes seem less sweet in France than the States, but they still are an abomination to my taste buds.

I miss yuca and onions....sigh.

She/He said one thing does another thing, basically a lie.

But that wasn’t what I was talking about. I was talking about the “good reasons” you referred to that you wondered if we thought men were “too dumb” to consider. No, I don’t think the men to whom I’m referring are too dumb—I simply think they don’t think any reason a valid reason.

If someone is willing to betray someone in a manner completely outside any reasonable perspective (my X, your wife), would it be so far beyond the realm possibility as to believe that “women/people in a work environment would cry foul to cause harm to another”

I guess depends the context of the question. In the most general sense, no. But if you’re asking if inquiring into the reasonableness compared to one another, yes. 30%-50% of people will cheat in their lifetime. Not sure the percentage of people that will report sexual harassment, but only 2%-10% of cases reported are estimated to lack merit. False rape accusations are incredibly rare. Another way to look at it, we all know at least 1 person (often times many more) that is a victim of infidelity. How many people do you personally know that are victims of false reporting?

People betray their SOs because of their own selfish behavior, with the exception of RAs, I don’t know a single instance an A was about the BS. In false accusations, the intent is to specifically target is the victim rather than being collateral damage.

[This message edited by KingRat at 5:54 PM, December 6th (Friday)]

But that wasn’t what I was talking about. I was talking about the “good reasons” you referred to that you wondered if we thought men were “too dumb” to consider. No, I don’t think the men to whom I’m referring are too dumb—I simply think they don’t think any reason a valid reason.

The question was about the guys in the thread answering question or stating a position. Those are the men your referring to?

I myself could think of plenty of good reasons and also plenty of reasons that would end the relationship.

Murky,

I was probably unclear. When I said “what I’ve usually seen,” I meant over time in similar threads. I didn’t mean anything that was said on this thread specifically.

People betray their SOs because of their own selfish behavior, with the exception of RAs, I don’t know a single instance an A was about the BS. In false accusations, the intent is to specifically target is the victim rather than being collateral damage.

My GF had false accusations against her by a couple of women at her former job. She was manager, and they were going to be fired due to lack of performance. The accusations were not sexual in nature, but they were false nevertheless.

My GF had false accusations against her by a couple of women at her former job. She was manager, and they were going to be fired due to lack of performance. The accusations were not sexual in nature, but they were false nevertheless.

This is quite common in my experience, it is my belief that many complaints originate in such a manner. Either an attempt to acquire or an attempt to maintain "power/value" something that is currently possessed. The sexual aspect is just a subcategory of the issue.

I recall in this thread where "victim" X complained about a superior resulting in the termination of the "offender" and the ascension of the "victim".

A cancer has been unleashed in the organization by that action. I imagine complaints and productivity being affected negatively by several orders of magnitude in the future of the company.

The is an old Star Trek episode (TOS) "Mirror Mirror" where the officers move up in rank through assassination. Perhaps fellow nerds shall see the parallels and consequences.

A great scene at the end about the consequences of actions and the lack of logic.

[This message edited by blahblahblahe at 3:42 AM, December 7th (Saturday)]

Unfortunately, in my 15+ years experience touching many many companies, both in due diligence and “management” role I have accumulated a significant database (from my direct experiences +).... The number of false (I am simplifying the category as it is far more detailed than I would care to share) reports is unsettling. There are of course a substantial number of accurate reports, however, the false reports while not approaching the suggested super majority numbers of a later poster in this thread are, however “structurally significant”.

While this may be true it's behaviour not isolated to women. I have known and worked with several men who utilised this type of action to 'control' their workplace, often including their managers who were then unable to manage effectively.

The danger is trying to isolate these traits to one sex, both sexes can be manipulative and work the system to their benefit.

While this may be true it's behaviour not isolated to women

Absolutely not when we speaking in general terms. The "knives" come out on a daily basis at my job just looking for a back to sink them into. And then we all pretend that we're a team and love each other at the end of the day. False accusations (not sexual, RIO didn't do the TPS report), shining a light on some failure (like the above), ingratiating yourself with a higher up and then using that relationship to get other people pushed down the ladder. That's just workplace politics, and a lot of it is why my opinion of people has become so colored. Give them something they want (money) as a possible reward, they'll stab 10 of their "closest friends" to get it. Which, of course, also applies to sex, plenty of "my best friend slept with my H/W" stories out there to keep us all in the loop as to how a highly sought reward (sex) can pervert human behavior.

The thing that is relatively unique to women in the workplace today is the "trump card". We're all standing around with knives trying to cut the other down (including the women) but we all know, in the back of our heads, she has a glock under her jacket. Now, to most people's credit, it's not common that a woman pulls it it out just starts shooting up the place, in fact, I'd even say it's "quite uncommon". But, just like the "tense" that all of us get when confronted with a police officer carrying a weapon, the knowledge that "she can end me in a heartbeat if she so desires" is very frightening. Are most cops like those from the "The Shield", using their badge to kill and intimidate with impunity? Absolutely not, I don't believe that for a second. Are some? Yes, sadly, they are. And the "some" that are out there makes any interaction with police a bit scary because you know there's a significant power imbalance. That's how I feel around women at work today, not that they are bad people, I don't think most are. But I don't want to spar with someone carrying a gun, it's just too dangerous, what if I get a good shot in and while reeling, they realize "shoot, I've got a gun" and pull it out? And even if they just graze me with the weapon (some sort of sexual claim that's eventually found to be untrue, for example), the wound from that shot will follow me for the rest of my career. What I've done, and from their behavior, what I typically see others doing is when women walk into the "ring" we all lay down our knives and stop sparring. Or we'll keep sparring with one another but nobody will hand a woman a knife and say "care to join". If she picks one up and jumps in, we'll lay ours down and stop.

Now, frankly, all of this is toxic. Should we be knife fighting at work AT ALL? No, we shouldn't be. Should we be sucking up to the boss for a promotion and trying to make sure Jim is painted in a negative light because he's also due for that same role? Nope, shouldn't do that either. The "best man/woman" should win, no politics at all. A pure meritocracy. But that's a pipe dream in corporate politics; the reality is that it's often not the most capable at the job who wins, but who's the best at knife fighting.

Dear SI members...

I’m only at page 7 but... is disclosure a good idea before marriage?

Go to youtube, search for “ Controversial cell phone commercial for nomad 2hot4tv”. View the video with this exact title (can’t post the link)

You might find it quite à propos

@Blahblahblahe

I have read your response, and it is reasonable. There are aspects to your stance that I think skew the results and are open to interpretation, but from a corporate, HR perspective, it is the necessary stance to take (aspects include unprovable allegations that that are dropped because it's a he said/she said situation, and so are counted as false while they, in all likelihood, did happen, etc).

I have to get ready for work, so I don't have a lot of time to respond here, but I did want you to know that I read your response.

I guess one of the factors encouraging backstabbing is the current corporate culture against giving references.

HR typically doesnt want references good or bad. Because you can get sued. So unless you blow up the oldbpjace and show up on the news, if things aren't going well, why not throw the hail mary of an accusation? You get fired, it's the same as being downsized anyway.

While this may be true it's behaviour not isolated to women. I have known and worked with several men who utilised this type of action to 'control' their workplace, often including their managers who were then unable to manage effectively.

The danger is trying to isolate these traits to one sex, both sexes can be manipulative and work the system to their benefit.

@Carissima

Agreed, please note my responses regarding the data were written from the gender neutral perspective as both sexes data were included in the last discussion.

And still going. When will this thread end? I lost interest around page 30, I think. I don't have the mental capacity or energy to read the rest of it.

EDIT: Actually I think it was around page 36, but same diff.

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:00 PM, December 7th (Saturday)]

I was once confided in by a young woman who was being accused by a male coworker of sexual harassment. This young woman was an absolute 10. I mean smoking hot, in a BOOM! POW! way. Think Serena Williams meets Charmaine Sinclair.

As a male, I'm like: "No freaking way would any man, ever, never, object to any form of sexual contact, innuendo, flirting, you name it with this goddess of sex."

Then I met the dude who was complaining. He was gay.

KatyaCA

You’re probably not reading this thread anymore, but just in case, I an so sorry this happened to you. I find this absolutely horrifying. And, on top of that, you have to deal with Infidelity.

I hope that life will be kinder to you n the future.

Edit: echoing the above sentiment to HellFire

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 9:18 AM, December 8th (Sunday)]

No judgement on the topics at hand, but I keep thinking about this...from the cited post.

As far as sex with her....i tried but I can no longer get aroused with her. She disgusts me. She disappoints me. And I obviously don't "do it" for her the way they did. Comparing how she was so sexually charged with them to how she is with me, I figure I must repulse her.

The odd thing is, physically she is the exact same person now as she was before.

The. Exact. Same. Person.

Yet the highly attractive woman has turned into the disgusting @#$&.

It makes me wonder about who we are having sex with. Obviously the person right there, but even more so this person in our heads, which prior to the guy finding out only bore a loose connection to reality.

I am thinking the new person in his head bears an equally loose connection to reality. Ninety percent projection.

It’s too bad that we can’t just live in the moment and accept that we really don’t know what’s in the head of this person inches away from us, and be OK with that fact. Maybe even find that mysterious and exciting.

You know what would feel like such a massive betrayal (besides infidelity, of course)???

If my H said he was fine, ok, accepting of my not liking or wanting to do a sex act but then found out later that I did that sex act with someone else prior and tried to demand--through assertive or aggressive or passive aggressive behavior--that I begin to do it with him if I loved him.

Betrayal of the conditions of our marriage.

If he loved me, he would respect the boundaries of our M.

And then he should get some flipping self-esteem to overcome his insecurities and sense of sexual competition, entitlement, and validation.

Sexual activity is not candy from a candy store, a treat you really want or deserve--you know, if you are awesome. (I truly believe porn is feeding this mindset like crazy.) It is my body and my right to have boundaries, and that includes my marriage. You will need to work on your inability to accept relational boundaries because of the way your low self-esteem internalizes my use of the word No. The way you feel when I exercise a boundary is on you. IC 101.

And Chamomile for President!!!!!

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:29 AM, December 8th (Sunday)]