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BSR the trophy response is very eye opening. I too appreciate your answer.

Did your BH's experience a push/pull attraction to you after DDay? Or did they just roll into hysterical bonding without reservation? Is there anything you or your BH's did that helped? Or is this something that I just have to be OK that things are going to be awkward for a time.

I'm afraid you have to be ok with the awkwardness. We had a passionate stage of HB that screeched to an abrupt halt one day due to mind movies. For a while, my BH tried to block them and just power through. That really didn't work very well; it turned sex into a battle with himself. He found that he had to let them play out. Sometimes that means that we stop, even if things have been going great up until that point. Other times, he needs a break to talk some issues through. We might start again afterwards, we might not.

The big thing is not to see it as a failure. That's easier advice to give than it is to follow. It's frustrating, and we'd hoped that we would be further along than we are. I feel guilty for having created the problem, and he feels inadequate for being unable to let it go. I'm hoping it will just take more time. It's better than it was, for sure.

I’m not sure if this is how I’m supposed to pose a question to WS so forgive me if it’s wrong-

2 questions-

My WH started the affair when I was away for 9 months. We would see each other once a month. Mid life Crisis time (he turned 50) We had 2 DDays. The last one being in February of this month. He immediately dumped her in December 2019 The first DDAY only to contact again towards the end of January. dDay #2 was the first week in February.

He says he went back because we were having a rough time in therapy.... he felt like he was constantly being shown that he was a piece of shit in therapy and at home he just needed a place to talk about the affair with someone who wasn’t evaluating his every word or making him see what a piece of shit he was so he reached out to the AP. Who of course was a willing ear and didn’t judge him......except the eA away started back up....... and it led to a date being planned to have sex. Now the question I have is this:

After all this was exposed he has been 100 empathetic and remorseful and dedicated like never before.

When I asked him how do you know it’s over THIS TIME? He says he saw it and her for what it was and he was grateful for the second DDAY. I have checked around for any signs of continuing and nothing.

Did you know in a defining moment that you were done with the AP and the A and knew that you wouldn’t go back? He says he knows that it was a fog, it wasn’t real, and the last interactions let him know.

On another note I reached out to the affair partner which was the catalyst for DDAY 2 and she said to me angrily, “he’s never going to leave you” if she knew that why would she keep trying to see him. I’m sure she was just hoping the marriage would end and she’d be up next.

Hi Mickie,

I'm a bit nervous for you. DD2 was in February. That was quite recent. How can you really be sure they are not still in touch? Cheaters really lie and lie and lie. I know because I am one. I had an affair on my wife years ago and never told.

The sex for them was likely electric. It made him feel young and avoid facing his MLC.

As a Wayward, I feel it's a permanent new self identity I have. Your H has it now. I feel like I have a huge scar on my body and my entrails are hanging out of me the moral wound that having the A had was so profound. But I own it. I face it. I don't deny it was me that had the affair. You now have a wounded H. He will forever be an adulterer. That's not to say you can't save your M. He is just a different person now. The old Mr Mickie does not exist. Its the adulterer version that is with you.

Look for true remorse and contrition. Look for true evidence of him being NC with the AP. Do you have access to his phone and all passwords? I had several fake emails so I could take things underground when needed.

Lucky77 I guess there is no way to truly know. I have access and he leaves his phone and I we’re together 24/7. If he’s underground not sure how to find that out but I have passwords.

Any opinions on MLC? Denial of having one? Any insight on how WH can think that everyone else is overreacting and should be okay with their choices...leaving spouse, leaving children....WH who can’t seem to comprehend why children are upset......

On another note I reached out to the affair partner which was the catalyst for DDAY 2 and she said to me angrily, “he’s never going to leave you” if she knew that why would she keep trying to see him. I’m sure she was just hoping the marriage would end and she’d be up next.

I imagine that is indeed what she hoped, and instead of being a soothing oasis when he went back to her, she told him she wasn't going to sit around waiting to be dumped a second time. Once she was making demands on him, he realized that her only value was as a supplier of ego kibble. Part of her suspected this and was royally pissed off, and part of her rebelled and tried to prove that it was just duty that was making him leave her. Remember, she was getting her kibble out of the A, too. It was hard for her to accept that their "connection" was cheap and fake and that she was easily discarded.

Mickie500: Did you know in a defining moment that you were done with the AP and the A and knew that you wouldn’t go back? He says he knows that it was a fog, it wasn’t real, and the last interactions let him know.

Yes, I had a defining moment when I knew the A was over. Or maybe the proper way to describe it would be to say I was done with being a cheater. I didn't want to be that person anymore.

Mickie500: On another note I reached out to the affair partner which was the catalyst for DDAY 2 and she said to me angrily, “he’s never going to leave you” if she knew that why would she keep trying to see him. I’m sure she was just hoping the marriage would end and she’d be up next.

I knew my AP was never going to leave his wife. I was OK with that because I was never planning on leaving my H.

Why would she keep trying to see him? IDK, could be that she simply missed the friendship that developed between the two of them. She likely knew her time with him was quickly running out once you found out about the A. Hard to tell.

[This message edited by sundance at 2:20 PM, May 13th (Wednesday)]

From Breakingapart: Any opinions on MLC? Denial of having one? Any insight on how WH can think that everyone else is overreacting and should be okay with their choices...leaving spouse, leaving children....WH who can’t seem to comprehend why children are upset......

.

Opinions on MLC... like, can it be a catalyst/excuse for starting an A? Probably.

I think it's OK to ask, "do you think you were having a MLC?", but I would caution steering a wayward in that direction if they themselves are not saying this was a reason.

As to overreacting, it's possible that WH sees his decision to have an A completely separate from his role as H and father (compartmentalization). Could be that since he had such an easy time doing it himself (keeping his roles separated), that he's having a hard time understanding why wife and children would feel any type of "ownership" of the A (by feeling hurt, angry, etc.), as the A itself was not done to them (in H's mind).

Regardless of WS's intent, it's helpful when the wayward is willing to hear the spouse/family as it relates to their feelings, hurt and anger. It's helpful for the wayward spouse to be empathetic to the pain that is felt by family members (instead of trying to downplay the devastation).

It's just all so sad. Hang in there. I truly believe recovery is worth it!

The shitty thing about this betrayal is that it Comes from your best friend.

When feelings come up and I can finally put how I’m feeling into words regarding the level of pain I’m feeling—- I want to share with him.

He is usually knocked to the floor by what I share about how emotionally devastated I am. I have always been very positive and optimistic and maybe too naive about love which is what he loved about me. He sometimes feels like I won’t recover because of the things I share with him.

Question- is it helpful that I share these feelings of despair with

Him or is it doing more harm than good?

I tell him things like “I used to feel like we had something otherworldly but now I realize that doesn’t really exist/- it was regular all along.” “I was so easy to deceive because I thought so highly of you that I couldn’t fathom you’d do the seedy things you did” “if someone accused you of something treacherous I wouldn’t be able to say with certainty anything about your character.”

Do you feel that the pre-cheating marital problems are really split 50/50 in terms of responsibility? In my case, I do not. Seems the same qualities that allowed cheating played a huge role in issues in my marriage- selfishness, lack of empathy, low integrity, etc.

Do you feel that the pre-cheating marital problems are really split 50/50 in terms of responsibility?

No, I've never liked that statement. Just because there are two people in the marriage does not mean that they divide the blame for marital issues right down the middle. For example, if one spouse is an alcoholic, or has a personality disorder, or is controlling and abusive, the issues caused by that aren't a shared responsibility.

Question- is it helpful that I share these feelings of despair with him or is it doing more harm than good?

I'm always in favor of honesty. I don't believe it's a good idea to try to rebuild while choking your true feelings down your throat.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 12:39 AM, May 25th (Monday)]

Thank you for your post Sundance. Sadly there is no empathy...I don’t know why I’m still trying to understand all of this. It makes no sense....perhaps never will.

He sometimes feels like I won’t recover because of the things I share with him.

Mickie- This is a way to indicate where he is in his progress. I think if he’s telling you this it’s an indicator that, deep down, he’s inconvenienced by your grief. I think he needs to see the pain you’re in but if he’s not properly orienting himself he’s going to turn that into a pity party.

I can tell you that his breaking NC sounds exactly like mine- I was still certain that I was an equal victim in this. I got to IC too late to learn about what factors were going in my mind to get me to continued contact.

IC needs to be something he’s doing now. Is he?

JBWD

HE’s in IC AND WE’re doing MC.

I see so many improvements and he’s constantly reassuring me with his actions in other ways. However when I ask him specifically why he broke NC I don’t respect the answer as truth.

He keeps reminding me that He’s with me and chose me and wants me and needs me and did not choose her. He keeps begging me to choose him again. I do choose him but I need to know why he left the second time.

Why CAN’T He answer this and what do you think it means? WH’s please help:

DDAY2 was in February 2020. Original DDAY was 12/19

Things seemed better but something was off. I called his AP and she said they had been have coffee for a few days. This is when she said he was never going to leave me angrily!

I confronted my WH and he freaked out and cried and screamed and winds up getting angry at the AP and leaves the house to go to her in anger!

I’m a crying mess because he broke NC and had been lying so I was just an emotional crying heap on the floor.

He says he went to her and wanted to find out all she told me and was “angry”.

However I found out later they went back to her place, had sex for the last time and ended it.

I DO believe he has kept No Contact especially with us being in Quarantine and I have access———-

But why did he run to her in the first place?

Why did she know he was never going to leave?

Why is he so adamant he is done?

Why is AP saying they had sex for the last time because they knew it was over?

He is in IC and marriage counseling and says he knows for sure he’s done.

But he can’t answer why he ran to her and left me crying on the floor. He did say he thought I would never forgive him and that I was gone forever ——-but that I don’t believe.

Does anything make sense?

If it’s a true fact that he has kept NC and is completely over the affair why did he go to her that last time in despair?

Hi Mickie,

So there was a DDay this past December and another in February. That's just not that long ago in the context of an affair. He had the balls to leave you, despondent at the house, and go have sex with AP just this February. For him to act so egregiously towards his wife makes me think was and is in this relationship really deeply.

Us Waywards have the ability to just lie and lie to just get some kind of story out there. I would not believe anything he tells you at this point. He had two women fighting over him. For a 50 year old he was in a dream fantasy with that happening. What a cake-eater.

You had a great relationship with this guy. But that is in the past. He is now an adulterer. He will always be one. Now you have to manage that fact. You might want to head up to the Healing Library (upper left corner of the screen) and bone up on what the 180 is all about. I would bet any amount of money his veins are still pumping with the dopamine rush the affair brought him. He's high like a druggie. I'm three years out from my A and still think about AP quite regularly.

[This message edited by Lucky77 at 7:11 AM, May 15th (Friday)]

Mickie,

I feel for you because your WH is still got his head up his ass at this early stage.

He ran to the AP because he really hadn't mentally 'ended' the affair yet.

It's like when I quit smoking, I knew it was bad for me but I still desperately wanted a cigarette even weeks after quitting. The addiction to the A can be like that for some. He needs willpower and help- but only he can help himself.

Also, do not believe a single thing the AP says to you. She has a vested interest and may see this as her way in getting him leaving you.

Lucky77 gave you some really great advice on how to deal with your WH which will really help you and him.

Also, go to the Wayward Side Forum and there is a post pinned at the very top - Things that every Ws needs to know. Print out the first page and give that to your WH as well.

It would help you to also see an IC yourself if you aren't already.

Thank you Lucky77-

Question about the 180-

Actually, I focused more on my children then him which is his trigger. He has been feeling neglected for a while because I was away for 18 months recently with our daughter. I’m not sure being detached will help.

When we’re you able to detach from your AP completely? I believe he has btw. But I don’t trust him enough to be back. He keeps begging me to acknowledge that he is working hard. He keeps begging for me to believe in him and says he’ll do anything for that.

He even cried yesterday saying if I needed to go be with someone else to feel okay he’d stay in the marriage and allow if it meant I’d be back with him.

How long between your last contact with your AP and you knowing in your bones you weren’t ever going back?

ALL WS

How long between your last contact with your AP and you knowing in your bones you weren’t ever going back?

I should clarify

How long between your last contact with your AP and you knowing in your bones you weren’t ever going back to the AP and it was over?

[This message edited by Mickie500 at 1:41 PM, May 15th (Friday)]