SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Man,you are so desperate to excuse your wife vile actions. Let me tell you something,no illnes makes wife to go and suck your best friend dick and fucks him! And that wasnt enough for her after seeing destruction she made the first time you found out,so she goes and does it again! Imagine how they were smiling when they talked how you are home with the kids and he is fucking your wife again! She is in love in your best friend,that is the real reason she fucked him,that is the real reason she picked his almost clon for second lover,and that is the reason why she told you to still be friends with him!!! Did you even comprehend what she has told you??? She told toy that you should keep the person who fucked your wife for years as a friend!!?? Ha!! I would divorce her right then on the spot for telling me that!! So,go find your spine and begin divorce. Oh, and DNA your kids to see which ones are yours.

T/J

DjDani

There really is no need, nor is there any support in using such coarse language.
Remember the first rule taught in First Aid courses: Make sure you do no harm.
I personally think such blunt wordage at this stage in the OP process doesn’t have any purpose, do any good or help in any way. It does harm.

Your WW hasn't cheated for nine years.

As I said before, we moved to a farm over an hour and a half away from her friends. She isolated herself and rarely left the house. When it comes to work, she works for my business and either works from home or is monitored by GPS for the client. She was still having feelings, but there was no opportunity that wouldn't raise suspicions. And when she was at home, she would sleep all the time. She never went out and she drastically reduced her drinking. My best friend moved to Michigan, the guy she had the longest affair with moved to Texas.

And I keep repeating myself here, but she made the decision to cheat. That's on her. Her BPD didn't stop her from considering a divorce, talking to me, or just ignoring the urge. That was her decision and she is solely responsible for that decision. I blame the BPD for the emotions that put her in that position. The feeling of abandonment, the feeling that I hated her and didn't love her anymore. Those were feelings created by the BPD. I can blame the disease for her feelings and emotions at the time. I can also blame her for acting on those feelings. They are not mutually exclusive. Understanding her feelings at the time does not mean I excuse her actions, it means I understand how she came to that point. The affairs for her wasn't about the sex, she did that to keep them around. The affairs was to feel attention from someone, to lose the feeling of abandonment. The sex for her was unfulfilling and she never reached an orgasm. It was solely about them, like payment for their time. There was no thrills or foreplay, it was straight to the point.

Now that she has a treatment plan and she can recognize when her brain is playing games with her emotions, she has the tools to address episodes. She knows to start using DBT to help her focus. She knows to talk to me about her feelings. I know to listen and give reassurance. Mechanisms to help her stay focused on reality and not her fear.

This isn't being a jailer/dad figure, because it's not being authoritive. It's being a partner who helps her with her treatment. If I see her having an episode, I just ask if she's alright. If she's not, she knows that I'm there to listen to her. She still makes her own decisions freely. Whether she wants to talk or not is up to her.

[This message edited by Betrayedmale at 6:33 AM, Friday, December 31st]

You are on the right path. Take care of you. Keep healing and get stronger. Keep on, keepin on.

Sounds like you've got a good handle on it.

BS only

[This message edited by WalkinOnEggshelz at 11:31 AM, Friday, December 31st]

We’re not idiots. We know that any reasonable human cannot post 24 years of relationship into one post. That’s why we ask questions that are pertinent.

We also really know manipulation when we see it.

Anothergirl I wish you the best. It was brave of you to post here and share your thoughts and progress.

I hope you and your H can successfully reconcile. Because what you have learned due to your mistakes can only help you build a better marriage.

My H was always looking for validation from OW because he could. Women threw themselves at him (even in front of me) and I used to just laugh it off. I was never jealous. Until his first EA (4 years long). Then his 2nd affair that led him to believe he wanted a D.

Total midlife crisis affair!!

He’s different now. He realizes his poor choices caused damage to us. But in 8 years he has continued to make amends and show that our marriage (and me) come first. He realized things about himself too and changed.

You can only do your best to repair the damage, make amends and not continue to be the person who made the worst choice to cheat. I hope you can reconcile and be happy if that is what you and your H choose to do.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 11:19 AM, Friday, December 31st]

I agree with others on the point that it does appear you have gotten a good handle around the metes and bounds of BPD, its ramifications in your life, and its treatment going forward. I salute the resolve of a spouse who is determined to see it through with a partner who has an illness such as drug addiction, alcoholism, or BPD. Your jaw is set, your fists clenched, and you're prepared to go the distance. Huzzah.

Yet many posters here have detected and odor, infused throughout the entirety of all of your posts, of a sort of overreach, an easy quickness to place the blame for the cheating in the lap of the absent third party defendant, the diabolus ex machina: it was the BPD talking. It's a psychological device you seem to resort to in order to convince yourself of something along the lines of your WW not being responsible for all of the trauma and emasculation and sexual humiliation you would legitimately be feeling as a betrayed man with awful facts like a three-way long term betrayal between your WW, your best friend, and his wife, carried on in front of your face over an extended period of time.

To that end, this bit from your last post, which echoes a concept you've addressed several times, leaps out at me:

As I said before, we moved to a farm over an hour and a half away from her friends. She isolated herself and rarely left the house. When it comes to work, she works for my business and either works from home or is monitored by GPS for the client. She was still having feelings, but there was no opportunity that wouldn't raise suspicions. And when she was at home, she would sleep all the time. She never went out and she drastically reduced her drinking. My best friend moved to Michigan, the guy she had the longest affair with moved to Texas.

Certainly, as a practical matter, locking her up in a gulag can prophylax cheating by creating physical barriers (or impassible distances) between your WW and her cheating partners. But I think you would agree that this does nothing to address the underlying causes of cheating. In fact, as you specifically state: "she was still having feelings, but ... no opportunity." Dude. Seriously.

I go back to my fundamental question. In response to her "I never cheated since the last time I cheated" (which, based on what you've been able to ferret out yourself, together with whatever your WW -- who as you have noted is patently dishonest due to her BPD -- has admitted to, is about 9 years), have those intervening years been the marriage of your dreams? Has she frequently initiated enthusiastic, adventurous sex? Has she otherwise affirmed her attraction to you as a sexual man? If not, is this really the life you want, white knuckling it in isolation with a wife who treats you mainly as a free in-home care provider, or occasional scuba companion? Seriously, is the marriage fulfilling to you as a man, right now?

By the way, I'm not suggesting you leave her today if she fails to bring a girlfriend over and offer you a three-way. What I'm suggesting is that you consider, as you decide each day whether you will continue as her husband, that you communicate to her that one element of healing you need is precisely this element: sexual brio, from her, toward you, in a way that affirms you as a sexual man whom she is drawn to.

I blame the BPD for the emotions that put her in that position. The feeling of abandonment, the feeling that I hated her and didn't love her anymore. Those were feelings created by the BPD.

You can blame this on the BPD. That's your prerogative. However, you certainly know, if you've spent any time reading here, that those sorts of feelings are very common among cheaters. In fact, the tendency to sink into those types of feelings is a hallmark of a cheater.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 2:32 PM, Monday, January 3rd]

AnotherGirl

As you found out, Wayward Spouses cannot post here on JFO. But I urge you to post on Wayward Side (probably best with a STOP sign) and gain insight from other people who have chosen infidelity but worked hard to rebuild.

In order to help people, we need to listen to them and I feel like I'm repeating myself because people are skimming my posts and cherry picking details to respond to.

Yet many posters here have detected and odor, infused throughout the entirety of all of your posts, of a sort of overreach, an easy quickness to place the blame for the cheating in the lap of the absent third party defendant, the diabolus ex machina: it was the BPD talking. It's a psychological device you seem to resort to in order to convince yourself of something along the lines of your WW not being responsible for all of the trauma and emasculation and sexual humiliation you would legitimately be feeling as a betrayed man with awful facts like a three-way long term betrayal between your WW, your best friend, and his wife, carried on in front of your face over an extended period of time.

Let me simplify this.

My wife had feelings of abandonment fed by feelings like she was not shown love or attention. She mentally blocked all the times I took her out, bought her flowers or chocolates, cooked her special meals, or sat and cuddled with her on the couch to watch TV together. This is called splitting, a symptom of Borderline personality disorder where they only see the bad side of a person and cannot recognize the good side. It's either all good or all bad. This was the BPD talking which made her susceptible to infidelity. This isn't my opinion. This was pointed out by our therapists. Thus was highlighted in every text written about people who suffer from BPD. I blame her BPD for her emotions at the time of the affair.

The affairs themselves, as I've already mentioned, was her choice. Even though she was having all those feelings caused by the BPD, she had options available to her. She could have talked to me, she could have seen a therapist, she could have asked for a divorce, etc. She chose to have an affair. That was her decision.

As I've said, the two are not mutually exclusive. She can have BPD influence her feelings and still make the choice to cheat of her own free will.

I go back to my fundamental question. In response to her "I never cheated since the last time I cheated" (which, based on what you've been able to ferret out yourself, together with whatever your WW -- who as you have noted is patently dishonest due to her BPD -- is about 9 years), have those intervening years been the marriage of your dreams?

As I've mentioned before, at the time I was unaware of her newer affairs when we moved. And those last 9 years, she was still undiagnosed. We moved because I wanted to get out of the city, not because of her infidelity. And our marriage would not improve over those 9 years because she was still undiagnosed. She was living in her own mental gulag that I was unaware of.

If not, is this really the life you want, white knuckling it in isolation with a wife who treats you mainly as a free in-home care provider, or occasional scuba companion? Seriously, is the marriage fulfilling to you as a man, right now?

If her affairs hadn't happened and she was diagnosed early, I'd still have to help her with her condition. No different than marrying someone with any other disease or health condition. Her condition will be there no matter what. But I think you have the wrong idea of what it takes to be a man. Treating my wife like a prostitute who sexually satisfies my every whim isn't being a man. Again, I have already said sex with her is satisfying. Being a real man is not cutting and running because something is hard or something is wrong with her. We've been facing her condition unknowingly for 24 years. Now we know she has this diagnoses, we can deal with it.

And, as I've already said several times now, since we learned about her condition and how to treat it, our relationship has gotten a lot better.

One of the things you started with, Betrayed, is this:

I'm hurting. I feel stupid, ashamed, enraged, disrespected. And I feel pathetic for even considering trying to work it out. She's been faithful for the last 9 years, so she says. But it doesn't change the facts of what happened. And yet I'm stuck between craving her touch and being disgusted by it.

Most of this thread has been about your W's BPD, her decision to cheat, and your decision to R. It puts me in mind of a tennis game in which you keep having to defend yourself.

PDs are hard to treat, but new techniques have been developed over the past several years that show promise. No one knows if the techniques will help your W enough to make R a success for you, but your posts say something may be working for your W. I will say that I like having a long term M a lot, even with my W's A. From what you say, R looks like a good bet for you, though there are no guarantees (but you know that).

For the record, I could have written the words quoted above, except, alas, I'm rarely that succinct. If you want to get more help in resolving those issues, my reco is to start a new thread in the R forum. Defending your decisions takes energy away from resolving the issues outlined above, which is one of the reasons I recommend the new thread in R.

Betrayed.

I hear what you are telling us. And I understand it. Her healing is a process. You as her partner want to play a part In that process. I agree with that if your desire is to R.

Something I wrote 3 days ago was that it appears to me that your rebuilding process is all "Her" centered.

So I want you to know i heard you and understand the reasons you gave as to why. And I also comprehend them. But what it doesn’t change is that any good reconciliation worth it’s salt has to focus on the healing of the betrayed spouse. And right now, for whatever reasons, from what I hear you telling us, she can’t focus on your pain and your healing. Or won’t. Or just isn’t. Because you both think she needs to focus on herself.

I hear nothing about her helping you through the pain of what you have experienced. It may be because of what you and the Drs believe to be her disease or disorder, but regardless she is not helping you heal. Not to the extent she needs to.

You cannot do that alone. She hurt you terribly. But all I’m hearing is how she’s affected and reacts to that fact. And what I’m trying to tell you, and I and others here have been trying to tell you, is that while she needs to work on her illness (with your support), you both need to focus on YOUR PAIN even more.

It’s as if her BPD was telling her that you didn’t care about her (as you have told us) and that because of it she pointed a gun at you and shot a bullet thru your chest. And now, instead of focusing on saving your life and healing your wound, you are both saying it’s more important on focusing on why she pointed the gun at you at all than getting you in surgery to save your life.

And even though it’s been 9 years, the injury, the pain was never properly addressed as the full story was never known.

And the way you write, and for the short period of time her post was available, the way she writes, it makes it sound like you both think your issues are secondary to hers. That she, and even you, focus more on what’s wrong with her, than what was inflicted on you.

And quite honestly, in my absolutely untrained opinion, fixing or learning to live with BPD, to me, should absolutely include finding and learning empathy. If BPD is more severe than narcissism, then narcissistic tendencies should be addressed. As from the way you both write, they are definitely there.

She greatly hurt you. That’s a fact no matter what the reason. And if you are going to have a chance to truly rebuild, she is going to have to figure out how to make you the center of her attention and not herself. And it’s not by moving to a remote site and hiding from her tendencies. It’s by doing it. It’s by changing and actually practicing.

And what I mean by that is by showing you thru actions that you are the greatest love of her life. And proving that she knows you are the best man she has ever known. And that she desires you more than any man she has ever met.

We can discuss more how she does that, but it starts by initiating. Not just sex, but romance. Not just conversation but real discussions about your pain, without you asking or planning for them. By doing things for you that truly show that you are the only one in your heart.

Because BetrayedMan, reading your very first post, the part that stuck me the worst of all the things you wrote about your awful affairs, and there were some terrible things she did with these men, and then let you live for a decade not knowing the truth about them, but the absolute thing that slayed me the most was this:

She fell in love with him and when she found out he was moving to Texas to be with his kids, they discussed her going with him. She realized I would fight her for custody and decided she couldn't go with him. She said after he left, she never had another affair because it was heartbreaking.

She not only acted out for acceptance and being desired by others (which her illness caused her to feel that need), but she actually loved him. And only stayed for the kids.

And the last sentence actually makes my heart drop into my stomach. She stopped having affairs, not because she felt awful about betraying the man she vowed to love honor cherish and protect. No, she stopped because when the affairs ended, HER heart would get broken. It was because how it affected her. Not you. Her.

That to me is the utmost in narcissistic thinking and feeling.

And that’s why it concerns me so much that so much of your energy as a couple is going into learning to live with her illness and from what I read from you both, so little Into addressing the pain from the injury her betrayals caused you.

She not only has to fix that awful issue, but she has to become the wife you always deserved. And it can’t wait for years for her to finis therapy. It has to happen at the same time.

Honestly I urge you both to have a true discussion on this. Really talk about what it will take for you to heal. Her working hard to get a handle on her issues is only a part of it. It’s a big part of it, but if I had to put a number on it it’s no more than 25% of what it will take for you to get thru the pain you feel. And of course, as any BS knows, much of that effort has to come from within you as well.

But the part I truly don’t see here, the part I see missing is a shift in your marriage that has to take place. The focus of the relationship. It’s too much focused on her. She’s still the center of attention. It needs to become more balanced. And honestly for the next few decades it should now lean towards you and your needs. For too long it’s been pointed to hers.

To me, thats what addressing her narcissistic tendencies and BPD mental issues should entail. Gaining her strength thru therapy, but individual and MC should include her ability to really see what she did to you, The destruction her choices created and the pain left in its wake.

And as a result she needs to put what she learns into practice, not just to come to you when she feels issues to get on top of them, but to actually be an empathetic wife and really help you heal.

You guys need to figure out what it means for her to put as much energy into loving you as she did in lusting for others and conniving to cheat. How are you going to ever feel like she’ll do anything to keep you in her life and feeling safe. Working on her issues is only part of that recipe.

I fully expect you to deflect what I say. You’ll Give me a litany of things she has done, but I don’t need that. When I hear the change in what you guys say here, and the primary focus turns from her own issues to your healing and her doing things that prove to you she’s not still pining away for dangerous sex or a young soccer coach’s body or especially a coworker whom she professed love, and she’s proactively every day week month and year doing something for you and not just remaining focused inside herself, then I’ll know you guys have a chance.

That’s what I hope you guys will intensely discuss. Really take the next few weeks and focus on. I hope you do.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 7:03 PM, Friday, December 31st]

Healing isn't about what your WS does for you. If it was, only people whose WS performed perfectly after dday would be healed. All those divorced people, people who are married to actual humans.. none of those would have a rat's ass of a chance for healing.

Here's what the WS can do... they can work very hard to fix whatever was broken inside which allowed them to think that cheating and betrayal were a valid option. They can work very hard to be a better communicator and an honest partner. They can keep their side of the street clean regarding marital issues. And all these things will create a good setting for the BS's healing to take place. But your WS cannot "heal" you any more than she could knit your bones together if she'd broken them. From experience, I can tell you that healing comes from within. It ends up being about how your outlook changes and becoming more self-reliant emotionally. For me, it's a different way of loving my fWS, less possessive, more voluntary. Having him in my life has gone from "meat and potatoes" to "gravy". I don't need him in my life; I want him here. I've learned to emotionally rely on ME. I'm my primary. I've lost a huge portion of the possessiveness I once had. When I say "my" husband, I'm simply differentiating him from other husbands. He's not a possession or an extension of myself. His actions were and are.. his, not mine. He is a separate individual with his own agency. His approval doesn't define me in anyway.

I know it's going to sound weird, but I really do believe that part of healing is learning to accept the way our emotional enmeshment was severed. And that's the traumatic thing about infidelity when you think about it. You're cooking along pretty good, at least YOU think so.. when all of the sudden your connection to this person who you depend on for EVERYTHING is ripped away, like violently hacked in two. In emotional terms you're adrift and in shock; alone, after however many years together. We fall into this romantic claptrap at our wedding about "two becoming one" and all that blather, then we go forth, living our lives like we KNOW this other person, like they're a part of us, like we're inside their heads. But it's just NOT TRUE. On dday, we find out that we were two all along, and that we did NOT know the thoughts in our WS's head or what s/he is capable of. In some ways, I think that's what blows our minds... that this person is NOT "our" person. They belong to themselves and they always did. Anything else was an illusion.

This doesn't mean that we can't ever have emotional intimacy with that person again. It only means that we've been disabused of the romantic fantasies we've had up to this point. Instead of "two hearts beating as one", we're two adults utilizing honesty in communications to make a satisfying life together. Not much of a Hallmark card, but a whole lot more likely to succeed.

Anyway, betrayal is painful, and it's going to take TIME for you to work out how you feel about it and to grieve for the lost innocence and naivety you might have once had. But you'll get there. You've got a good head on your shoulders and a well-researched plan.

Nothing I said precludes anything ChamomileTea says. I agree with what she says about the work your spouse needs to do on themselves and what you need to do for yourself as well. I work hard not to denigrate the advice of any long time poster here whom I respect.

But what I posted addresses a different aspect of the infidelity and potential rebuilding in your relationship.

Right now the focus of the relationship is squarely on your wife, and not you. And I firmly believe that needs to change if you have a chance at rebuilding. And I still think this is an important discussion point for you and your wife.

I recently severely injured myself physically. And while my body did the work of physically healing me, if I didn’t have the loving care of my wife through the ordeal for nearly 4 months, emotionally I would have had deteriorated and suffered PTSD to a great extent. I could not have done it alone and become the strong, even if different, person that I am after healing.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 3:45 AM, Saturday, January 1st]

Right now the focus of the relationship is squarely on your wife, and not you.

I'm seeing a therapist twice a month and a marriage therapist twice a month. My wife answers all questions, day or night. She gives me all the gory details. She provided me names, places, dates as best as she could remember them. She has explained her feelings about how and why it happened. When I get angry, she takes it. When I'm sad, she's consoling. If she remembers things later, she tells me. She's made sure all APs are blocked and gone from every social media platform. We've spent countless hours talking about what happened. I've seen and have access to all her accounts, emails and messages. She turns on location tracking for me even though I've never asked her too. She asks me if I'm OK several times a day, or if she goes out to run an errand, she offers to Facebook messenger on video. She goes with me whenever I leave the house to spend time with me. So no, it's not solely about her. It's just what everyone wants to talk about.

I came here to vent, and to get some feedback on processing my emotions because I'm angry and down all the time. Since I don't have friends to talk to because I isolated myself and because I don't want to discuss this with family because they are old school and judgmental. I came here to help work on me.

I came here to vent, and to get some feedback on processing my emotions because I'm angry and down all the time. Since I don't have friends to talk to because I isolated myself and because I don't want to discuss this with family because they are old school and judgmental. I came here to help work on me.

This is a good place for that. Remember almost all of us have been in a similar place as you. We all want what is best for you. The 2x4s are intended, with rare exceptions, to help and keep you from being manipulated by your WW.

Your wife sounds like she is doing newrly all the things you need her to do to help you heal. Amidst a lot of pain, that is significant. Many people never get that from their wayward.

DjDani, you have a pm

Here we go again!

T/j. It’s frustrating to see what you think is going on but might not be. He has told us what he wants right now. He might change his mind later but he is asking for RIGHT NOW. So please don’t jump all over him. It does him no good. Be kind.

I got too huffy on the wayward thread and am locked out. I needed to be. Don’t get locked out because you think you know what is best. You don’t.