SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What is it you want?

Do you want to reconcile or do you want to separate?

You don’t really have to decide NOW but there will come a time quite soon where you should decide what fork to take on your path and what obstacles lie ahead.

What I do warn you about though is that whatever you have done previously isn’t working…

It’s the commonly accepted theory here on SI that infidelity hasn’t really got much to do with us the BS. Your wife (and I’m calling her wife because although she lacks the formal definition then time probably makes her your wife) did not cheat because she needs something from the relationship with you that isn’t provided. She cheats because she needs something that is not normal.

IMHO infidelity is 99% about validation. The WS cheats to gain a feeling of validation: Hey look at me! I still got it! Men see me as special and want and desire me! We all need validation, but most of us get it in accepted and healthy ways. We get praise and acceptance from our peers, boss, customers, friends and family and that’s enough for us.

I wouldn’t be surprised if your WW is cheating to get her validation. If that’s the case then the solution for HER issues is for her to get therapy to understand this need and how it can be met in healthier ways. If I’m correct then the previous infidelities were intitated by the same situation or need.

This “need”, or unhealthy validation is not an excuse. It’s not as if you should show your WW the same compassion or care as if she had a traceable physical or mental ailment. It’s neither, it’s simply a possible explanation for why this happened and – why with the correct handling – it might be prevented from repeating. Not that it’s an issue for you unless you decide you want to reconcile.

IF you want to stay in this relationship then your WW needs to get IC.

If you want to reconcile you need a level of trust. That trust is completely shot as is, and if your WW is the typical WW then she has yet to be totally truthful. You mention a poly and I second any suggestion you get one. However be clear on why you want a poly.

If they had sex or not isn’t really the issue. It definitely impacts what you might be recovering from, but the KEY issue is if she’s truthful or not. Learning NOW they had sex will be easier than learning about it 12 months from now. This is where the poly comes in.

If you want to end this relationship, then now is just as good as any time. Don’t need more proof or whatever. She cheated, has done so previously and untreated will do so again. Whether they had sex now isn’t the issue.

If you want to reconcile… Your WW needs to accept she needs IC and she needs to trust you enough to tell you the truth. That truth is confirmed with a poly, a poly of serious consequences. She fails the poly and you KNOW reconciliation isn’t going to work. She passes and you two have a chance.

Being 2nd choice in a relationship is never acceptable. You deserve better.

I don't know about everyone else here but this woman sounds exhausting.So if I get this right she feels bad because she got caught.Admitted she wanted a relationship with this guy.Sounds like she didn't feel all that bad about it in the first place because of the duration of the time she spent texting and meeting up with him.I get the fact there is a child in the mix and totally respect you for being thoughtful of your daughter.It might behoove you to set up an exit plan right now for when your daughter leaves the nest.Doesn't mean you have to follow through however if push comes to shove and you're ready to take that leap and give yourself a chance at a relationship with someone you can trust and respect.Someone you won't need to monitor 24/7 like a correctional officer.Someone who acts like a responsible grown adult with a moral compass that will be there for you.Do you really want this for yourself?I mean really really think about it.Do you deserve this kind of a relationship?I am sure you have had great times with her throughout the years when she didn't stray.(maybe that is)It sounds like the guilt comes when she gets caught not when she is successfully having her affair's.I think a large problem for me is I grew up accepting shit for love.Like it was my due.I saw this happen with my parents and thought this is how it is.When someone crossed my boundaries I accepted it.Maybe there is something in you as well that doesn't think you deserve any better.It's just my perception though.I don't know what is really in your mind or have the magic answer.I am.hoping the best for you though.Not so much your wayward girlfriend though.Really can't understand her frame of mind.

[This message edited by Bonetired at 3:54 PM, March 30th (Tuesday)]

You are going to give her a polygraph to see if you are going to forgive her for the 5th time? That hilarious.

Just skip the poly and tell her this is her last chance. Any inappropriate contact with another man (by your definition) and you will end it. No questions asked!

And then purpose in your heart to not throw it in her face, but genuinely be there for her a new way.

If you are going to forgive then make the necessary changes to make it work, and communicate your needs and expectations.

She will get a Pass/Fail on doing her part. If she fails you're out.

Show her with actions you are firm on it.

[This message edited by Decorum at 5:46 PM, March 30th (Tuesday)]

She has had way too many bites of the apple. Somewhere in your narrative, you mention that she was sick of you and wanted the AP. The AP may have said it. Nevertheless, no way, no how should an engaged woman correspond and meet with a former boyfriend behind your back. She did way more than that. Bide your time, get your ducks in a row, get your daughter in college then run like hell away from this serial cheater. As sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west she will cheat on you again. You are her safety net, her plan B. Don't waste the rest of your life with this person. Hell, she left you for another dude then came crawling back after he was done with her. Get rid of her.

I hope you are doing ok.

UPDATE:

I just wanted give a quick update on my situation and any advice is really appreciated. It's been 2 months since D-Day and we've talked a lot about it. However just 3 weeks ago my father passed away out of nowhere after getting his 2nd Covid shot so out issues have been put on hold while I took care of his estate and funeral and just figure that out but I am now ready to move forward with addressing my WW affair.

So basically all the information I have is pretty simple. This was her ex from 25 years ago and she cheated on me with him right after our daughter was born around 17 years ago, and now again. I know when it began, the first text to him while she was at work Jan 31st after she found out his sister died. I told her I could have forgiven this text if it ended there. However they texted until 3am that night and a week later she called him again. 2 weeks after she admits to telling him she wanted to see him and she drove to meet him. She said they drove around for a few hours and talked. They cont to text almost everyday for about 6 weeks until I caught her by checking her phone records and seeing all the texts. It's all in my original post.

Now about a week before my father passed I made a timeline for her and we went over it. All the times and texts and I asked her to show me what days and times they met up. What she said seemed to match the phone records so I believe it. She still insists that there were only a few times the talk was sexual. She told me she asked him about his hot tub and he responded "you know we can't do anything while you're with him right". I said to her, that means you guys were talking about having sex and she said 'no it doesn't, I don't know why he would say that, he must have just thought i meant sex but it proves he wasn't planning on doing anything.' So that just doesn't make sense to me and I told her I've never just randomly told a girl i know that we can't have sex, just in case she was wondering. She just said well other than that text and me texting him and telling him I was in the tub and he asked about my pussy there was no other sex talk.

I also wanted to go over 2 BIG issues I can't get over. She still swears when she lied to me and spent until 130am at his house alone that they just talked. I keep telling her how if that happened, she would be in the 1% but she won't budge. I asked to break down every hour and she said she sat across from him on a chair and got a drink of water, went to the bathroom, went outside to smoke a few times but other than that just talked. She still says her phone was on vibrate and in her pocket so he never heard me calling her for 20 minutes at 1am. I said she didn't hear it because her clothes weren't on and I really need the truth cause I don't believe her but she just keeps swearing she wasn't going to cross that line. At least not yet she said. Maybe in a few months.

The other thing I can't get past is that after I found out, she was in AC with her friend, and I begged her not to call him and she did. She used her friends phone and I only found out when I called the AP the next day and he told me she called him last night and asked her out and he said he let her down easy. Now the AP told me he was seeing a girl named Angela and found my WW not attractive and just a friend but he knew sneaking around was wrong. So when I told my WW about this, she said she believes what we talked about because he told her about this Angela so how else would I know about her, but he told my WW that Angela was ugly and he wasn't interested in her. I said that shows how he was just playing both of you women. I could tell she didn't believe that about him though. She said he was just saying that about her to not upset me. Maybe that's true but she still called him AFTER I caught her. Now she still says she didn't ask him out, just said "you're not looking for a relationship are you?" But she did admit once that she was hinting around to see if he was interested w/o just coming out and asking him. I still feel like her 2nd choice when he told her he wasn't now but to break up with me and call him in 6 months and he will see. They both said he told her that.

She reminded me that she did text him a few days after that and tell him not to call her ever again, that she was working it out with me. I saw her do that and Ive been monitoring her phone and car and I have nbo evidence she has seen or spoken with him since. But I just don't believe her about what happened and she thinks I should have moved forward already and is getting mad that I haven't and gets mad whenever I ask anything about it. So I just feel like I'm still stuck

Why didn't you have her take the polygraph like you said you were going to?

I’m sorry about your dad. Condolences to you and your family.

Sadly this is the fourth person I know (parent ages) who died after the COVID vaccine. How awful for you and your family.

Focus on anything else but the liar and cheater you have in your life. And best wishes to your child at getting accepted to a phenomenal college.

So I just feel like I'm still stuck

Only if you allow yourself to be.

Your update appears to state that you don't trust your partner, she isn't really showing remorse for her actions, and doesn't appear to be doing the work to repair your relationship and rebuild your trust. All of these are reasons to D. I didn't read anything that seemed like a reason to try R.

You can unstuck yourself, if you so choose.

I just don't believe her about what happened and she thinks I should have moved forward already and is getting mad that I haven't and gets mad whenever I ask anything about it.

That is someone who is not understanding your pain. She is just waiting to see when she gets out of trouble. She doesn't understand that each lie is building up your resentment of her and you will most likely retaliate in some way. Cheaters are all about transactions and think they deserve to control the relationship. She doesn't want to let go of that control.

You need to go back to the 180 and force her to chase you again. She isn't trying to understand the pain she caused you.

And you know that 1:30am story is bull. She just thinks if she repeats that lie enough it will somehow become true. So dumb.

You had the poloy all set up before. How did it go? Did she pass it?

It sounds like you pay for a lot of her stuff. She said "I'll have nothing if you leave me."

I caught her cheating with her friends neighbor. She denied it for a couple months then broke up with me. It only lasted a few months and she came back to me, I think because of our daughter who was still very young, and when he was done with her. I reluctantly took her back and she swore it was only sexual one time. It took her 13 years to admit it was a sexual relationship for months with that guy.

I notice a pattern with all of her affairs. Deny sex and manipulate the truth. She keeps you so focused on the little things that you miss the big picture.

The big picture here is that this is her 5th affair. That she has poor boundries, that she doesn't respect you. That she lies constantly, that she can talk her way out of anything with you.

Why would she want to admit to having sex? She knows she can continue to lie and that eventually you will let it drop.

You have enough information right now. YOu know that this was a second affair with a guy she had a previous affair with. She knew he was off limits. She's had enough affairs that she knows what she put you through before. She shouldn't have even been in contact with him... and yet she spent six plus hours with him ignoring your calls? That's enough on it's own considering her past with lies, and affairs. It doesn't matter how many times you ask her. Do a poly or move on. You aren't going to get the truth out of her.

What has she done besides cry? I mean what actions has she taken? What books on affairs has she read?

[This message edited by Freeme at 3:25 PM, May 26th (Wednesday)]

Read your own original post. She is reversing course on previous admissions.

'no it doesn't, I don't know why he would say that, he must have just thought i meant sex but it proves he wasn't planning on doing anything.'

Totally contradicts:

'She said she deleted all the texts and if I read them then I would never talk to her again cause some were sexual flirting and a lot were her telling him how much she is sick of me and leaving me.'

You are getting even less than trickle truth. I don't even know what to call it.

Holy crap us it tough to quote on a phone...

OP, I read your posts until this post, but some stuff stands out for me. This is your fourth go at Dday, so you've been through this before. But if you try to handle it like the three other times, you'll be back at your fifth Dday. It's tough looking at the woman we love or loved and seeing that she is just a construct of our desires and Hopes. The real person is less appealing. I'm 3 years S, and I honestly have no feelings of attachment to my STBXWW. She's just someone I used to know. It's very liberating.

Read the quote below. If it wasnt so tragic, it might be darkly funny. I dont mean to make light of your pain, just to show you the being outside the box can give you a different perspective. You can see the surrealism. Its definitely not the stuff of fairy romances.

we didn't get engaged earlier because of her cheating. Once we got past the first 3 times and got engaged 3 years ago

Yup.

As for her polygraph...well, what did you expect her to say?

"

if it proves I didn't have sex then let's set it up and have them ask me."

She only has a limited number of options. One, yes, I would love to do a poly. I just hope it takes a long time or I might have to confess a smidge more so you put it off. Two, how dare you ask me to do a poly after all we have been through! Three, poly! Well I guess you dont trust me at all...

Four and what I wish they would say, poly? No need. I'm lying through my teeth hoping to stall long enough that you will drop the idea altogether and I can escape any meaningful consequence. Oh, let's have lots of sex and I'll do all of the stuff I refused to do before in order to get you to forget about the poly. The last option us decidedly less popular among waywards.

Now, as for the next quote:

she can't remember everything said and she doesn't want to think about it cause it hurts too much

Well no shit. Of course it hurts. It makes her look in the mirror and see her ugly. It's much easier to be the hero or at least the damsel. Nobody wants to be the cillian in their own narrative. You might notice that you are nowhere to be found in this statement. It probably doesn't even occur to her that you might be hurting much worse from HER actions. You, my friend, are simply an afterthought to her, and probably always will be. She does not strike me, based on your posts mind you, as a very introspective person who has the chops to do the heavy lifting in her healing journey. What you see with her is probably, at best, all you will ever get.

As for you, you strike me as seeing what you want to see and avoiding what is really there. I get it. I did the same thing. Once I got my head out of my ass, i could not believe i had ever been stupid enough to marry my wife. If i could only kick my own ass.

In the end, you'll do what you'll do. I hope it works out for you. Continue to post and the wise members here will help you see through the shit. Here's hoping for the best for you.

The reason we didn't get the poly get is because there is only 1 place here and it costs $750 and I can't afford to spend that plus I said to her if you fail you're just gonna say "It's wrong. I know what really happened so who cares and there goes 750 bucks" and she agreed she would say something like that cause she insists I'm making it more than it was. She said, "yes I had feelings for him, and some sexual flirting and I did go see him 3 times, once until 130 in the morning but I was never going to cross that line and touch him. no kissing, no bj, no fucking happened and I'm not gonna say it did". SHe also said she more felt bad for him cause his sister died and thats why she went to see him and feeling just grew but nothing happened.

It's typical for a cheater to want to stay married and lie and lie. Your wife has proven herself to be deceitful and therefore you can't believe any excuse she provides (we just talked).

Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. Your wife has an obligation to avoid behavior/situations that suggest she's cheating.

Therefore, you don't have the burden of proving her secret contact with the OM was sexual. As a married women she has the burden of proof to show her secret meetings were not sexual. So far, she failed because her verbal excuses (from a deceitful woman) are unreliable.

as far as R. She did text him and say dont ever contact me again I'm working it out with me. And as far as I know, she hasn't. She gives me access to her phone and stopped leaving the house unless I can verify where she is and I saw some texts from after I caught her to her friend that just said how she feels like a horrible person and wants to die but I still feel like she doesnt understand how I'm feeling and also, I still feel like I have about 70% of the truth and she says I have it all so i'm not sure what to do

I agree there is no point in paying for a polygraph if you already know that you are going to believe an admitted liar over the results of the test.

It's good that she is giving you electronic transparency.

What else do you *need* from her to feel safe in this relationship and start to re-establish trust?

Putting aside the PA and whether she's told the truth for a moment, why should you believe her that you're not going to be here again in a few years because she cheated with someone new? Or maybe again with the same OM because she saw him somewhere and caught feelings? What's different this time than any other?

Reading your posts, it sounds the same. It sounds like you're going to rugsweep this and find yourself in this same situation again. What's worse to you? Breaking up now and moving on OR being back here in a few years and starting the cycle all over again? Is she really worth a 5th chance?

I never said I was going to believe her over the poly, I said she was gonna say it was wrong so its a waste of money. I just cant shake the feeling more happened. And I am worried that in a few years the same cycle will start again, I've told her that. She was just going over her friends house for a few hours she said to get her hair done and it caused an arugument. She said well Ive always gone there for my hair and I told her that things we've always done is now over forever. Because of what you did we have to do things differently from now on. So she went to the bedroom away from me. So after an hour I went up there and asked why she ran away and she said she did it cause she didnt want to fight. I told her its not her presence that I'm mad at, its her trying to just go back to normal that gets me mad. I said that all she ever says is how much she hates herself and wants to die for what she did but I don't care about that, what I want to hear is how much she cares about how she hurt me and how I'm feeling, that it sounds like she is upset cause she got caught. She said well I tried to tell you how upset I am over hurting you but you didn't believe me so what's the use. I said you should try until your dying breath to make me believe you only care how hurt I am and W/O that and me having the 100% truth then we can never get this back and right now I dont feel like I have either. She didn't say anything so IDK what her silence means. Maybe she knows I'm right and she isnt being honest with me and she hasnt shown that she cares.