SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Are you getting what you need from her to reconcile?

No.

If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting.

You need to fear remaining married to a remorseless wayward more than you need to fear losing her.

Until that happens, nothing changes.

Betrayed,

25 years ago almost to the day, the seed of my wife's affair was starting; it happen right in front of me with my friend. No cell phones, no SI to get advice from. I know there are others that had affairs before you could look up stuff on the internet. But coming here some many years later I can tell you nothing has changed on how a BS acts. I really do believe there is a cheater's handbook, because all the stories have a similar script.

B99 you are losing the affair battle with your wife. The old adage "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink"; So far I see you scratching your head in a pool of water neck deep, and wondering how to cure your thirst.

Not to quote Bigger, but you need to focus on getting out of infidelity. For you all this is new, but to rest here your situation is all to familiar, and personally it pains me sometimes to watch the floundering.

The phrase "I don't know" is cheater speak for I don't want to tell you what I am really thinking. Trust me I heard it from my WW during the affair. Until after PA discovery, I stated to her this is my demands, and they were non-negotiable.

I was done, follow what I want to stay married, or I will divorce so fast it will make her head spend. She knew I was dead serious....we did R, and have been happily married.

Stop doing the heavy lifting, you are doing the Pick-Me dance (yes been there, done that), and first hand it makes you look weak. She will not tell you, but for sure, she will find it discussing and will loose even more respect for you.

You need pull yourself up and do the "FUCK YOU" dance.

FUCK YOU for:

having an affair

for not immediately coming to your senses and picking me and the M.

telling you, she still has feeling for OM, totally disrespecting you, as if you are not significant.

I could continue this list, but you get the idea.

Stop what you are doing, and you tell the OBS. Chances are the OM may have already poisoned you as a crackpot. Have the evidence ready, and let here listen for herself.

This will shake the affair foundation to the core. The only reason your wife is in a I-dont'-know mode is she can't get a confirmation from OM, that he wants to live with her.

If she had this, she would be saying "see ya, wouldn't want to be ya" and initiating separation to divorce will telling everyone what an asshole you were in the marriage.

Right now she is on the ropes "fence-sitting" because OM has not committed to her. She will feed you scraps of love until she gets a commitment from OM or this burns out.

If you wait, you will pay a severe price in your self-worth and you will damage your kids' self-worth as they watch you wallow in misery.

The choice is yours. I have already seen this movie, continue not telling his wife, take your wife's "love scraps" & and IDK's, and you won't like the movie ending. This is your life, your decision or lack there of will effect your kids.

Also, when I did tell the OBS, she knew 2months earlier, after coming home early from work, and catching them in each other's arms "talking" on the couch. Looking back, I wondered why she stopped going over to OMs house to talk (her mother passed away in Feb.). If she HAD told me two months earlier, it did not need to become a full-blown affair.

You are cheating the OBS by not giving her information making you one of the affair partners in this....TELL the OBS NOW.

Justatistic is spot on. "I don't know" is always code for "I'm going to wait and see if AP leaves his BS first and then think about who I want to choose." It always means you're plan B. Right now, your WW should be the one saying she will do anything and everything to fix this marriage, not just you saying that by yourself! It takes 2 to R. Until she's willing to do the work, you are fooling yourself.

Frankly, betrayedks99. this is becoming pathetic.

We decided not tell the kids yet. When we had the last blowup/meltdown/tearfest, I told her we would tell everyone this past weekend. My wife said she was unprepared and pleaded with me to delay for a short time ... Also she did not move out due to financial considerations and the only other option is moving in with her parents which would blow her world up as she is extremely ashamed for her parents to find out the truth. So much so that it is terrifying to her ...

So on Sunday, my wife says, I don't think I can go through with the divorce. It floored me. I asked why the change of heart. She said everything is happening so fast, she went to see the lawyer, and it all scared her ...

I asked her what she wants, and she replied she does not know. I asked her what she wants to do--again, she replied I don't know. I asked her what she wanted me to do--same answer--I don't know ... I need to know what it is she wants. She said she wants to work on the marriage, but where she is at now took a long time to get there, so this will not be easy or happen right away, and that I need to be patient. She even came back to our bed Sunday night, which I saw as a step in the right direction. No physical touch outside of a hug here and there though. Then she said, “I don't want to give you false hope.” Which she said to me means she is not ready to reconcile and repair the broken marriage, but rather take more time to “see what happens”.

You caved on everything you had said you were going to do (tell the kids, expose the affair, kick her out, file for divorce) and put your WW back in control of your life, and what did you get for it? A WW who says she "afraid" to get divorced but doesn't know if she wants to be married to you.

How the fu** do I respond to this? She wants to take time and talk about this. Because of this statement, I believe she is not invested. I told her I am all in and will do whatever has to be done to fix our broken marriage, find a way to forgive and heal, and be the man she married. She said does not love me like she used to ... So, IMO there is a really thin chance we can reconcile. I am hopeful by even having the chance, but to me it seems like a real long shot. She has deceived me so many times, and in so many unbelievable ways that I could not have imagined her doing, in my paranoia I fear this is a delaying tactic.

You respond by telling the kids, exposing the affair, kicking her out and filing for divorce.

You don't respond by telling her -- as you did -- that you are "all in" when she continues to sit on the fence and even you admit that the chance of a successful reconciliation is very small because of her behavior.

Am I being played for a fool (again) hoping to repair a marriage in which I am the only one that appears willing to 100% do so at this time? Or is this the chance God is giving us to make things right? Do I need to give her time to think and consider what she has done/is doing?

Yes, your are being played for a fool again.

You do have a chance to make things right. You do this by giving her real consequences for her adultery and making it clear to her that you are prepared to end the marriage if she doesn't demonstrate genuine remorse, a strong desire to save her marriage and a willingness to do the hard work that that will require.

Am I pursuing a lost cause?

As long as you continue to handling things as you are -- not giving her consequences for her betrayal and allowing her to determine what happens in your marriage -- your cause is lost.

You've basically told her that it's ok she had a boyfriend

It's not her decision to expose to friends and family, it is yours. (Thought work on the kids together)

It's not her decision to file divorce. She already unilaterally decided to end the marriage when she got herself a loving boyfriend.

the pick me dance not only doesnt work it also strips away your dignity and self respect. its toxic.

Betrayedks99,

You're getting some good tough love advice here.

The "Pick Me Dance" is deadly, regardless of whether or not you're reconciling or divorcing. It puts you in a position of weakness.

I would emphasize:

* being as calm, if cold, as possible.

* Use the Healing Library on this site to figure out exactly what you are and aren't willing to put up with

* Be very clear that there are many things you need her to do before you can CONSIDER reconciliation

* If she does want to try to reconcile, tell her you want a post-nup. If she balks, that tells you how sincere she is

Understand that she is in a highly selfish frame of mind right now and is unable to see beyond her own insecurities and desires. You need to not put with that.

And yes, tell the other BS and don't tell your WW that you're going to. Lots of advice here on how to tell that other BS.

Strength.

The good news is that by doing everything wrong you could possibly do is that you you will soon be rid of her. Your lack of manliness is sure to make her run.

Here is an update...

I avoided posting for several weeks as I thought my decision to handle this in my own way would cause me to be berated by some members, but as it turns out, their strong language is out of experience, the desire to help a fellow betrayed spouse, with information that works. For those of you who are dealing with this awful betrayal for the first time, as you read, you will realize the cheaters all follow a similar pattern. Listen to the experienced people who post here. they are right. Expose immediately. Contact the OBS. Don't wait like I did and delay the inevitable. Cheaters cheat. And those who don't wish to go all in to reconcile will lie, deceive and cheat again. They just go further underground, causing you to delay your healing process, wonder what the hell they are up to when not at home, and deepen the mistrust.

So, here is what happened to me this time. Ugh. DDay #3. When I had DDay #1 I had a real time GPS put on her car. I did this to maintain some level of trust (but verify) so that I did not imagine the worst. I agreed to let her stay in the home under IHS while we waited for our home to sell. The ONLY condition of her staying in the home after her infidelity was to never have contact with her AP again. This waiting has gone on for three long contemptuous months. Some arguments, some polite talk about this and that, but mostly avoidance and separate space. We have a large home so we can accomplish the latter. This was somewhat bearable as I felt I could do this for our kids who are still in the home. Friday was a good day. We had the grandparents over for an early Mother's Day dinner. It was wonderful. My oldest DD and I planned, shopped, and prepared a wonderful 4-course meal. My in-laws (who know a little of our impending divorce situation) were lovely as usual, showing me the love and kindness I had experienced for the past 23 years. My oldest DD still does not know about the divorce plans, and pressed me for what Mother's Day gift I was going to get my STBXW. In the spirit of kindness and the fact that time has helped, I got her a massage as a local spa and a nice "You're a Good Mother" card, both of which were presented in front of the whole family along with the other cards/gifts for the other moms present. It was a good day. Another step in the forgiveness/healing process.

My STBXW had told me earlier that week of her plans to go to another town about an hour away to spend the Saturday with a girl friend and offered me her phone number in case I wished to verify that she was with who she said she was with. My STBXW was going to drive our oldest DD to the airport for a weeks' vacation, then stay in the city and spend the day with her friend. Problem is, that the flight was at 8am, so what was she going to do between 6am drop off and whenever she was going to meet her girlfriend. Red flags. So at 7:30 am I opened the real time GPS app and sure enough, she was not in that city, but an adjoining town parked at a motel. The town is only 30 minutes from our home so I drove there to verify, and planned to take photos of her car in the motel parking lot to confront her with later. As fate would have it, I just got out of my car at 9:15 am to take more photos and out from the side exit of the motel they both came. Needless to say the look on their faces was shock. I ran up and said, "I hope it was worth it". She immediately sputtered, "Were you following me?" to which I replied F*** You. Turned to the AP and asked him if he had anything to say, and he muttered a barely audible F*** You back. I said really? No, F*** the both of you. I looked at my STBXW and said, "I want you out of the house today!". Then I left. I went straight to her parents house and told them everything. Of course they were shocked and dismayed that their perfect daughter could have done such a terrible thing. I told them the reason I was there was to tell them the whole truth and not whatever my STBXW chose to say to them, which I found out was really nothing at all. Kind of like she treated our marriage--kept everything inside and say nothing until it reaches a boiling point or she gets backed into a corner.

So, she packed a weeks' worth of clothes and moved in with her parents. My kids just know that we had a fight and mom went to stay with grandma and grandpa for a few days. So right now the plan is to maintain this f***ing charade one more week until my oldest DD gets back from her vacation out of the country. We don't want to disclose to our other two kids as they all three group text, and the last thing I want is for my oldest DD to find out this way instead of from her mom and dad in person.

Well, I called for the OBS many times yesterday and have not yet gotten through to her. I left a voice mail (that I'm sure got erased by her POS adulterous husband), but I will keep trying during different parts of the day until I get through. I reached out on FB but to no avail. I should have done this weeks ago!

Parting thoughts:

You must start the healing process for yourself. If your betraying spouse is not up for reconcile if you are, send them away or move out yourself. The enduring pain is NOT WORTH IT. Tell your kids the truth (ours are a young adult and two teens). Tell your family and friends. Confide in someone you love and trust to comfort you and tell you that things will get better. Spend time with friends. Try to get sleep--this is so important. (I had to take sleep meds but what a clearer head on 7+ hours of sleep!) Drink lots of water. Try and exercise if even going for a walk or work in your garden. And remember, this is NOT YOUR FAULT. The betraying spouse is broken, and made a choice to violate the marriage vows. They made the choice to deceive, lie and cheat, and leave the marriage.

I'm not perfect, and I know there are things in my marriage I wish I could have done differently. But I cannot go backwards. I know there is a better life for me once she is gone for good, and I no longer care about what she does or who she does it with. But please hear this: your healing must start right away after you get past the initial shock. In my case, this took about two months. I believe I could have started healing sooner and faster if she was not in the house. Big mistake. But lesson learned.

I'm headed to church now to pray for my broken wife, our children, and my healing. I wish for you to know that what happened to your life that you loved, this destruction of everything you held sacred, the destroyed trust and incessant lies, deception and gas lighting, are not on you. Be strong. God bless you.

ok,

I'm sorry this has happened to you. Hopefully, you have learned from your mistakes. Isn't that the goal of everybody? Don't make the same mistakes over and over? This is not an "i told you so." I'm trying to make sure you really look at what happened and the decisions you made that allowed it to happen again. (<- again, this is not your fault. but it's important to learn that trying to "nice" them back doesn't work)

I know you still want to save your marriage/family. I admire that. It's still possible. What you need to do now is let the hammer down. You've made first steps. You told her parents the whole story. You've told her to move out. You're trying to contact the OBS. Make absolutely sure you contact her. If necessary, go to her house to tell her. Make sure you have evidence.

Once your wife's life has been completely upended, and her AP has thrown her under the bus, she's going to really start to understand things. She needs to. She needs to feel ashamed, humiliated and self-disgust. It takes a while for this to happen. But it will.

In the meantime, don't offer reconciliation or even talk about it. If I were in your shoes and caught my wife red-handed like you did, I would file for divorce. I realize you may not want a divorce, but a divorce can always be called off later. You really need to shake her up. file for divorce and see what happens. If she doesn't care, then you haven't lost much and you're ahead in the game of getting rid of her. If she does care, she'll show you. Make her. Don't think you can nice her back. She's shown you who she is. Believe her.

Finally, you may wish to ask yourself if you even want her anymore. Take a lot of time and think about it.

good luck friend. in the end, you'll be fine.

[This message edited by mike7 at 10:31 AM, May 14th (Sunday)]

OMG! Your story is identical to mine right down to the marriage length, age of kids, method of discovery (finding unfamiliar lingerie) phone records...all of it. Your right , there must be a "cheaters 101" book out there. My W at D-day just packed right then and left in front of both kids so I was spared the task of breaking the A to them. WHAT the HELL! is going on here. We do our best as husbands providing, being good parents and BAM! My WW definitely knew what she had been doing over the last 14 months...it was obviously an exit strategy having the A. I noticed changes and signs over the last year or so but when I asked her if there was anything wrong or if she wanted to talk, I ended up being the bad guy. Why we ask couldn't they just come out and tell us they have issues and at least give us a chance to make an effort with our marriage? Nope that would take time and work an A is easier. I feel for you and wished I could offer some advice but I'm two weeks into this and Feel like a newbie compared to the extensive knowledge of some here. I did however start the D right away and have now focused on my kids and ME. No regrets at all on that decision, the sooner her cheating lying ASS is out of my life the better. Be strong and get r done.

I am very sorry. Trust me when I say that none of us want to be right, we don't offer advice to just be mean. We have lived it and sadly as you said all the stories seem to follow the same pattern. We can sound tough, it can be hard to hear...and we only hope that what we offer helps one person or hopefully more in trying to get out of infidelity.

You tried. We understand. Its like no matter how many times a million people will tell you NOT to do XYZ, it seems each BS has to follow their own path and journey of pain to get to the point where they are finally strong enough to do what they need to do.

Hug your kids, be good to yourself. And again, I am sorry you are going thru what you just found out. So sad.

Thank you for your update bks99.

It's weird how disclosure helps so much. I did not tell the other BW until almost a year later, due to a particular circumstance.

I was already in a good R at that point, my WW was doing ' everything' possible.

But it is hard to compete against someone's own delusion and ability to self-deceive.

Even with a good R going, after talking with the other BW, when the OM threw my wife under the bus as a fatal attraction booty call, my wife qualitatively changed. It was weird. Even with her wanting the marriage and wanting to reconcile, there was a part if her still clinging to a fantasy of some sort.

That's why disclosure is SO important.

Good luck with you brother.

[This message edited by redhorse at 12:18 PM, May 14th (Sunday)]

Bks99,

Do you happen to know how they remained in contact? Another burner phone? Have they always been in touch in the interim?

I'd drive over to their house and give the pics to the OM's wife.

Hey all. Thanks for the posts. It helps, really. Tough love is what is needed here, and I get that now. Hate to belong to this club...

I believe my STBXW and the AP were talking via secret gmail accounts. And I think she was also calling him from her office phone, but I cannot be sure. I do however believe they have remained in contact the entire time. Nothing she tells me can be believed, so who knows? And, at this point I really don't even care. I will stay on task to contact the OBS until I get through to her. I'm going to try during the day this week, then mail a letter. She is in another town 2 hours away, and I'm not sure she even lives in the AP's home any more. My STBXW told me they are divorcing. I won't give up though.

This was definitely an exit affair. We are done. After catching them coming out of the motel yesterday, the sight of her now makes me want to puke. I want nothing more to do with her. I don't even know who this person is anymore. I guess I'll be posting the divorce/separated forum soon.

Probably goes without saying in your case but don't believe what your STBXW has said about the AP's marriage. She is probably lying or has been lied to herself. I get the biggest kick out of Waywards that get so upset about you contacting the OBS. Why don't they want you to also blow up the AP's marriage? My WW got so angry at me for calling the OBS but I said "I thought you wanted his marriage over so you could be together?"

Really the AP had her convinced that he just needed a little time to tell his wife. It just wasn't the right time, kids in school, dog sick, etc. And she went along with it. As soon as I told the OBS my WW got the NC letter from him that I had been trying to get her to send.

You are doing the right thin in finding the OBS and telling her. Don't be surprised that when she has no idea that her marriage was over and that she was getting a divorce. That'll shock your wife.

Betrayed, everyone thinks that their affair is unique. As you see it's not and the standard Methodical steps that we pushed for were indeed the right ones.

We all make mistakes, that's life. It wouldn't change where you were at right now anyways, so who cares right? She's a bad person. That's why she did this to a good person like you. She's a bad person, which is why she faked reconciliation. She likes the feeling of two men lavishing her with attention

Here's another hint - that ESP like level of accuracy that we were early on also holds true right now. Just know you are at your lowest of low and it all gets better from here on out.

Your wife's boyfriend has her phone. It 'broke' and he's going to take it to get fixed this week. Oh damn, they couldn't fix it right, looks like you needed a new number. Aw schucks. Call her at work. Go to her house when he is not there. Have a friend hand deliver her a letter. This is important - you are now taking your life back and making right things right. You need to kick some ass and become the man that you've been all along.

Also, when you do tell your children, make sure that your wife owns her shit, and doesn't try to minimize her affair. Don't let her tell your children that mom and dad have grown apart, or some other attempt to minimize the situation. Correct her if need be.

Visit your attorney tomorrow and have the papers filed, and, if possible, have your STBXW served at her parents home this week. Push forward.

Betrayed - don't beat yourself up for not following the advice that was offered here in February. It's not easy to do the things that need to be done. And at the end of the day you lost just a few months - which is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Imagine if this had gone on for several more years! In effect, you acted pretty darn quickly when you consider it's only May.

I also agree with your telling all the kids in person. I advised you to wait to tell the kids in February, but since then my son I felt was old enough to learn the truth - he's nearly 16. I told him and he's doing great. Your kids will be fine - they're not elementary school age.

I admire how you came back here and posted an update - to admit that you made a mistake in not following the advice here. I think this story is going to help a lot of people to get out of infidelity. You've done a good thing. Much respect.

Good luck as things move forward with your D. You seem like a good and level headed guy. There's a woman out there who will be lucky to have a faithful, honest guy like you.