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very true unagie!

The problem is as a WW, how do you justify not being perfect? I feel like I have to be even 10 times better than before - earn more money, spend more time with the kids, not have a cleaner, cook every meal from scratch, set up a profitable side business, not kill all the house plants, have more sex...it's the only way I can make amends, to show BH I'm worth it. Does anyone else have this feeling?

I have no ideas for you, but your post made my laugh! Not kill the house plants. HA!!!

I started out doing all of that, but there was not a chance in hell I could keep up that pace. I continue to contribute more than I did and I should be contributing more. I wasn't mentally present for the last year, so I have some making up to do. I am a MUCH better parent and partner overall, but I'm not setting records over here. I started off way over the top, more in a panic than anything and have slowly backed away a little to something I can manage long term. My pace now is sustainable, I would've crashed and burned eventually if I hadn't slowed down.

[This message edited by Regret44 at 3:01 PM, March 11th (Wednesday)]

The problem is as a WW, how do you justify not being perfect? I feel like I have to be even 10 times better than before - earn more money, spend more time with the kids, not have a cleaner, cook every meal from scratch, set up a profitable side business, not kill all the house plants, have more sex...it's the only way I can make amends, to show BH I'm worth it. Does anyone else have this feeling?

I'm a firstborn, and a perfectionist by nature. It's all I've done. My whole life. It magnified by a million post Dday.

How do I justify not being perfect? By admitting and accepting that I am not. I wasn't perfect before Dday, I'm sure as heck not gonna be perfect post Dday!

When the voices of doubt are screaming in my head, I have to slow down and ask myself, "Is this FOO driven? Is this me driven? Or has my husband expressed displeasure over my progress?" Perspective is everything. Nine times out of ten, it's my own issue and not my husband's. He doesn't expect perfection. He just wants a woman that is trying her best. He knows I will still trip and fall, but get back up and keep going. If he expected perfection, he'd left a long time ago!

I've read the Menz thread in ICR and maybe I'm totally off base, but I don't think I've ever read where ANY of them want perfection. Sure in their anger they rant (key word here) about things their WW does or doesn't do. (Who of us don't have things that we don't like?) But for the most part, when calm and rational, I've never seen where any of them demand perfection from their WW.

Why couldn't we see the self worth without anyone else telling us it was there?

Can't speack for everyone, but some of us grew up with a FOO that did nothing but tell us of our failures and short comings. We were berated for not being perfect. We were kicked while we were down. We grew up believing from a very young age, that we were worthless. If our FOO, who were supposed to love us unconditionally, were drilling home the idea that we were "less than", how could we possibly believe otherwise? If there were no other positive role models for us, where does the believe that "We're awesome, we're special, we're beautiful" come from?

(Mini rant - I'm 30 freaking years old and my FOO pulled a move over the weekend that reinfoces yet again that they don't see me as anything other than a stupid little girl that cannot make her own decisions. There is no love. There is no respect. I'm an ignorant, worthless pawn. Good times.)

Ever seen The Help? Little girl who's mother neglected her because Mother was too busy keeping up with the Joneses. Yet "the help" told that little girl every day, "You is kind, you is smart, you is important". Every. Day. "The help" that was looked down upon by the bratty housewives of that time, was the only positive role model in that little girl's life. Some of us never got that.

So if we have never heard healthy validation from anyone, why in the world would anyone think we'd grow up and magically go, "Dang. I'm all that AND a bag of chips! I'm a stong, independent woman and I don't need anyone! *hair toss*"? Never gonna happen.

Or maybe we do hear it from other sources. And it becomes a craving. We learn unhealthy ways to get what we "need". Because we don't know how to fulfill it ourselves in healthy ways. We grow, emotionally stunted and broken. And one day, someone throws a kibble. And we go, "Wow. What is THAT!? I need more of that!"

*shrug*

Why couldn't we see the self worth without anyone else telling us it was there?

This idea came up once while BH and I were sitting on the bed folding laundry. I explained that when he tells me how sexy I am (or other such compliment) it's like if he told me the pink sock is in the laundry pile. I believe that he sees it (he doesn't have a history of dishonesty like I do), but from where I'm sitting, I don't.

The problem is as a WW, how do you justify not being perfect? I feel like I have to be even 10 times better than before - earn more money, spend more time with the kids, not have a cleaner, cook every meal from scratch, set up a profitable side business, not kill all the house plants, have more sex...it's the only way I can make amends, to show BH I'm worth it. Does anyone else have this feeling?

Quoting this again, because...

Yep.

She-Ra, this is definitely part of my answer to your question, of why I can't justify taking "me time" when there's money to be made or stuff to fix/clean/organize/cook. I recognize it's an irrational attitude, and yeah, Shrink Two is working to disabuse me of it.

Unpaid Hooker

Even though my BH never called me that, it is exactly what I was. I confessed my 'love and adoration' to XAP. I followed his demands, dressed the way he wanted, did whatever he wanted and I was just free sex to him.

Now don't get me wrong - I could have walked away and said no at any time, but I kept going back for more punishment. I thought it was fun and exciting but it really was physical and mental abuse.

Oh and he forgot to tell me he had a STD which I thankfully never caught. But his BW did and she made sure to tell everybody that I gave it to them both. So much for my KISA huh?

I have a lot of guilt for what I did to my family during my lta. My son was flunking out of school, my daughter was an emotional wreck and know I was the reason for it all. I was barely there on family vacations, found ways to be out with friends or working late whenever I could just in case my xap might call and want to see me.

Some days I feel physically sick about what I did.

Thankfully my BH has stood by my side and supported me during out R. It hasn't been easy but we are almost 4 years out now and some days I honestly feel like we are more in love than we've ever been. Now that's a KISA :)

PS

Thank you Mods for a place of our own - never really felt like I belonged in the other threads.

Aubrie you know me well enough to know I've had to ask myself that question a million times. I get that most of us werent capable of having the ability to self validate but I think its important to figure out why. I for one do not ever want to enter another relationship for the need of validation. Its still shit 75% of the time for me but they thats better then 99.9% right?

I love this thread... I think we share so many thoughts, fears, doubts and most of all, we share the same hope. To move forward and learn to forgive ourselves, but never forget. I think society has lead us to believe that as women we are just never good enough... We have to be the best mom, wife, have the cleanest house, work hard, etc., etc., PUKE!! Growing up I was always laughed at by my own family, my own mother and brother. I was sexually abused at the age of 5 or 6 by a stranger. I am learning now how all of these actions lead to my own beliefs that I wasn't worth being treated how I deserved. My husband has always been there for me and told me all along that I am beautiful inside and out. I never believed him... I struggle still today. As women we need to support eachother, we are all beautiful, strong women! We can't do it all, and we need to stop setting ourselves up for failure and disappointment. Learn to love ourselves, and put our families first. I don't think our husbands expect nearly as much of us as we expect of ourselves! Thank you to all of you for all you've said here... It is so helpful. I hope each of you can hold your head high today and know that you are enough just as you are. Enjoy your day, enjoy your family, take pride in the fact you are here, we all want to be better and do better, and just by being here, I think we are succeeding! Thank you!

I think society has lead us to believe that as women we are just never good enough.

Don't get me started on this one. There are soooo many things I purposefully avoid because of the negative messages. Websites, forums, magazines, books, people, stores, media, apps, etc.

There's a thread in General where men can ask women questions and vice versa. One gent asked about society's impact on women. I was green with jealousy to see women posting, "Oh society has no impact on me. I love who I am, I'm strong, I'm amazing. There is nothing that phases me."

I can't figure out if they're serious or in denial. Are there really people out there that feel no pressure, and feel no impact from societal influences? Why couldn't I be a lucky unicorn?

Lol Aubrie... Thanks for the laughs! I'm still trying to be a lucky unicorn and find my pot of gold! I can't imagine anyone who isn't affected by society, media, etc. I too could go on for days. Unfortunately, I think women bring eachother down. I think if we help lift eachother up... Maybe then we can make a change. Being ourselves has to be good enough and learning to accept and love ourselves before anyone else can! Stay strong ladies, you're all worth it!

I think society has lead us to believe that as women we are just never good enough.

Society, culture, family they all play their roles. I come from a culture where traditionally the woman is still the one who cooks, cleans, raises the kids and makes a perfect household. Now she can get a career if she wants to but cannot slack off in the rest. When my parents retired I was so angry for my mom. I want to emphasize I love my fatefather to pieces but even he has said my mom has a bond to me and my brother that is special. So they retired, my mom was a stay at home mom my whole life. She kept the house spotless, was there for us at all times, always a hot meal, always teaching us something and she helped my dad run his business. My dad worked but went out every Saturday for years and came home expecting my mom to help with the financial side of the business, after serving dinner and cleaning the kitchen. Thats part of what I grew up seeing. I had to be everything. When they retired my mom got a part time job she loved but she was still the one doing the cooking and cleaning and taking care of home. It kills me to see it. I know a lot of my I have to be the perfect partner mentality comes from that. Pain it with the societal pressure to live up to the beauty and social standards set for women and I consistently feel like im not good enough, I dont do enough. A typical day for me was cook enough to heat up dinner the next day. Next day go to the gym before work, go to work 8-10 hours, go to the supermarket and pick up some stuff to go with dinner, come home, serve dinner, wash dishes and clean up, hang out with xSO because he hadnt seen me all day and maybe some sex is thrown in and then catch 4 hours of sleep if I am lucky to do it allover again. Dont get me started on when I was going to school too. Point of all this rambling is that I thought I had to be perfect in all ways. That fucks with you eventually because you will reach a breaking point. I did and cracked. Depression became my best friend and I made my horrible choices.

Thing is those horrible choices did not just destroy my image in my eyes and xSO but in society too. Society says I am a slut, whore, skank, dirty...the list goes on. It would never be laughed off or pushed to the side as thats just what women do as it is many times with men. I am not saying I want it to be or that it should be btw. I am saying the societal pressure to be viewed only as those things now can be worse for wayward women. Thats all I have right now..

Society, culture, family they all play their roles

Yes. ^^^^ I don't know where you live Unagie, but I grew up in a similar household. My mother worked but still did everything she saw her stay at home mom do. My father admitted years later that he never changed a diaper. He said "we just didn't know any better"

Ironically when I had children many of my friends were anti women's lib and deciding to be stay at home moms. I felt guilty for wanting to go back to work. So I overcompensated. Stayed up at night with both babies, took baby and toddler to the most expensive daycare around and ran back and forth to go nurse at lunch and pump twice during the day because heaven forbid my child has to drink formula, oh yeah and then worked all day. Worked harder than before because I didn't want to be seen as less effective because I was a mommy. Predictably the house work started to slip. Then one day my H announced we were going to have a superbowl party. I told he needed to clean the bathrooms or we couldn't have a party. He said "our friends don't care if our toilets are dirty!". I responded by telling him I wanted a divorce. He cancelled the party and we started MC. After 3 sessions (that I remember being stressed out about getting to with everything else I had going on) we decided what we really needed was a cleaning service. That's my advice to all new mothers. Get a cleaning service so you don't fantasize about choking your H with his dirty socks.

Even though I'm digressing, I do feel this was part of my A foundation. I have been more or less keeping that same routine described above, give or take nursing, for the last 12 years. In IC we talk about how I alone put this pressure on myself. I can't blame my H. He's happy with dirty toilets and pizza 3x/week. Even now I work longer hours, and make more than my H, but I still do all the laundry and cooking. I IRON all my kids' clothes!! I've considered updating my SI profile, but haven't because I still remember typing it out. How I described slipping into the A because it was one thing, just for me. That I deserved it.

Now of course I know the A payoff was zero, but I still feel compassion for the state I was in. Maybe that's why when I read a foggy WW post my first thought is to give them a hug and take them out for a girls night

How do we do better for our daughters? Will seeing me drink wine and go for an occasional run be enough?

[This message edited by familyfirst at 5:02 PM, March 12th (Thursday)]

I am so thankful I have sons. I wouldn't wish this on my daughter. I know men have their own societal pressures, but still.

Our daughter is a trailblazer. Kicks butt and takes names. So, it's really about working to send them healthy messages no matter their gender. (and lots of praying )

But, I hear you.

I IRON all my kids' clothes!!

Oh hell...I aim for one notch above the Appalachian kids in the Feed the Children commercials. And most days, I achieve it!

I guess I can add "I don't iron my kids clothes" and "I quit breastfeeding after a month because it sucked" shame to my internal slut-shame.

[This message edited by Regret44 at 10:07 AM, March 13th (Friday)]

"I quit breastfeeding after a month because it sucked"

Yep. I've ruined my kids too.

I'm raising two children who didn't get the boob. They didn't get to properly bond and they didn't get optimal brain cells or allergy and disease fighting mojo because I didn't supply them with the Magic Dew of Boobage.

DD is very artistic. She is gentle, passionate, and has a special connection with animals. She draws, paints, crochets, sings, and is starting to play the piano. (Girl's got an ear!) She is incredibly sassy and loves knock-knock jokes. She cares about other people and is aware of those who hurt. She thinks of ways to cheer up the sick, lonely, or hurting.

DS is going to grow up and be a marine biologist. He can tell you anything you want to know about sharks, volcanos, and dinosaurs. He's decided he's not scared of the dark anymore, he can build awesome blanket forts, and he's very courteous and kind towards small children and the elderly. He loves to cook and bake. And he never misses an opportunity to give those he cares for, hugs and kisses. He's frequently heard saying, "Get your face down here. I wanna kiss it!"

I just don't know what to do with these two. They are so difficult and haven't adjusted to life or bonded with me at.all. I fear for their futures, their friends, their mates.

*runs screaming in circles*

If only I'd breastfed! They'd be so much better!

you girls crack me up! I know I'm such a head case. My poor IC

While nursing my DS bit me at month 8. Hurt so bad I screamed. Next time, he did it again. I tried to reason with him that we're supposed to do this for 12 months but nothing but teeth from that little ingrate. I gave up and wouldn't you know it he needed ear tubes!

I didn't start out like this. I ditched classes like crazy in high school and was a bartender in college. But now.... I'm the mom, and the boss *RESPONSIBLE* My AP knew me from college, he didn't know this new version. It was fun being the crazy girl again. One of the better pieces of advice my IC gave me before a vacation was to make sure and get drunk with my H at least once. Totally worked magic. This reminds me I should set up a happy hour with him!

ETA: Aubrie I love the way you described your children. They sound lovely and I'm not at all surprised.

[This message edited by familyfirst at 11:32 AM, March 13th (Friday)]

I love all your posts.. I know I've made so many mistakes in life, (why I'm here especially), but I think as moms we can look at our children and know we did something so very right! Hardest and most rewarding job ever! Good job moms!

This week my BH is back home visiting his mom and taking care of some business that couldn't be handled in a 21st century way. His mom lives one town up from where we were living when I had the Affair. BH went down to the old neighborhood and checked on our house and met with some friends. He was at our old hang out spot talking with someone who knew all of us (BH, me, OM, OBGF), but did not know about the A until BH told him. BH told me that this mutual friend "has a lot of respect for you." That kinda crawled under my skin. No one has respect for cheaters we all crawl in the same slimy-ness.

I thought this question related to the first part of my post, but if there was a connection before I turned on the computer, I lost it. ...

I'm a fan of Brene Brown's work. I like what she says about being vulnerable and being enough and not needing to be (or even trying to be) perfect. (Okay, so I haven't successfully embraced her teachings, but I like what she says.) Anyway, I kinda get hung up on the idea of being enough. If I accept that I am enough as I am right now, where is my incentive to change myself? What if I accept that what I am right now is as good as I can get, but it really isn't and I'm just using it as an excuse to quit trying? Also, that thread about breastfeeding fits right in to what I'm saying. If you make the choice to breastfeed kids for 3 years, good on ya. If you choose some other way to nourish your infants, chances are they'll turn out just fine. You've fed them well enough. What if I'm just lazy and don't want to make the house cleaner I just call it

enough

and go watch TV. In the end, however, no matter how I feel about myself being enough, if my Husband doesn't think I'm enough, then I'm not. (Man, I really miss that Man.)